17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[jbombelli]

....and Z being punched in the nose 25-30 times, yet no inuries or blood on T's fists, palms, wrists, fingers, or thumbs? That makes sense to you, or anybody else?

Are you suggesting Z broke his own nose and smacked his own head into the ground?

 

[griffin]

I do believe that Fargo is loving this.
He makes a few good points and then Zoom....off and gone

He asks why so many of us believe Zimmerman. I tell him why, then he wants to argue.

If he really had any intestinal fortitude, he would argue the other side. Be the prosecutor. Tell us a plausible scenario where Trayvon was innocent and Zimmerman should be in prison for twenty years, with evidence to back it up. All the evidence has been released by the prosecutor. (Well, they tried to hide some stuff that was damaging to Trayvon, but they were found out).

 

[griffin]

....and Z being punched in the nose 25-30 times

Cite?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Are you suggesting Z broke his own nose and smacked his own head into the ground?

Who knows? Have people purposely injured themselves and blamed another? His Z misled the court? Riddle me this though, for those of you that have had a bloody nose, is the nostril caked in blood?

like this:

Or are the nostrils fairly clean....

Like this:

 

[jbombelli]

Zimmerman's nose looks pretty well broken to me. I have a hard time believing he did that to himself and smacked his own head on the pavement and staged everything just so he could fool the cops. I think that's an asinine, ridiculous suggestion given the totality of everything that happened, the witness statements, the 911 call, the cops showing up and what was said, the timeframes, all of it combined.

You're really reaching when you suggest he might have done that all to himself.

 

[griffin]

Kutnupe: Zimmerman caused his own injuries.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kutnupe: Zimmerman caused his own injuries.

I'm sorry, are you sayinng with 100% certainty he didn't?

Might I remind....

...and she had no motive.

 

[Fargo]

He asks why so many of us believe Zimmerman. I tell him why, then he wants to argue.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? I didn't ask you why you believe him. I've repeated asked you to what level you think his story is PROVEN, not why you believe him. That's your third strawman in 24 hrs. I believe all sorts of things I can't prove, but at least I can tell/acknowledge the difference between things I believe to be true and things I know to be true.

If he really had any intestinal fortitude, he would argue the other side. Be the prosecutor. Tell us a plausible scenario where Trayvon was innocent and Zimmerman should be in prison for twenty years, with evidence to back it up. All the evidence has been released by the prosecutor. (Well, they tried to hide some stuff that was damaging to Trayvon, but they were found out).

Once again with the insults. Let me try my hand. Why would I argue for a position I hold untrue and have openly disagreed with from the day he was charged? I have maintained for months that I see insufficient evidence to sustain the charges, must less a conviction. Are you really that much difficulty with reading comprehension or is this some more intentional obtuseness????

Do you not recognize that because the burden of proof lays with the prosecution, failure to meet it does not mean that Z is telling the truth but simply that they cannot prove that he is not?

Then again, unless you are being intentionally obtuse, I seriously question whether you grasp the concept of "proving" much of anything. Kinda like your list of kinda/sorta/maybe "facts" you put out although when you read Serino's report they turned out to be a little less complete/accurate than you made them out to be. And I don't even take Serino or anyone else's report as fact.

The bottom line is that none of us KNOW WITH CERTAINTY WHAT HAPPENED. That apparently hasn't stopped some from deluding themselves into convincing themselves they are omniscient.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Zimmerman's nose looks pretty well broken to me. I have a hard time believing he did that to himself and smacked his own head on the pavement and staged everything just so he could fool the cops. I think that's an asinine, ridiculous suggestion given the totality of everything that happened, the witness statements, the 911 call, the cops showing up and what was said, the timeframes, all of it combined.

You're really reaching when you suggest he might have done that all to himself.

Maybe he didn't, but are you suggesting that such a possibility shouldn't be looked at?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that there's no DNA evidence supporting Z's claims. T supposedly banged Z's head on the sidewalk more than a dozen times, and punched him in the nose 25-30 times, and yet there isn't as far as I have seen, any physical proof of that other than Z's words.

-How do you bloody someone's nose, without there being blood or offensive wounds on your fists?

-and once the nose is bloodied, shouldn't each successive punch leave blood on the victim?

-How is a person as fair as Z, not exhibit signs of being repeatedly (25-30) struck in the face? As any copper that has worked a domestic, a single good punch will evident a good while after the fact.... so how can 25-30 not?

-Z states that when he shot T, T was coving his mouth and nose trying to muffle his screams.... so this is AFTER he had been punched in the nose.... why is there NO blood on T's hands?

Z words:

I made sure it was past my hand was out of the way. Cuz his hand was still on my face. So I made sure. He was like putting all his weight on my nose and my mouth trying to suffocate me. So he was like creating a crevice with his body and then he like -- when he slid to go for my gun -- that's when it clicked that I had my gun.

I'll stop short of saying Z puposefully injured himself, but the evidence no way implicate T as causing Z's injuries.

 

[griffin]

I'm sorry, are you sayinng with 100% certainty he didn't?

Yes. I'll bet my next paycheck against yours. You up for it?

...and she had no motive.

Actually she had plenty of motive.

 

[griffin]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

I thought you were abandoning intercourse with me?

I've repeated asked you to what level you think his story is PROVEN

And I've stated the evidence we have. All I can do is what a juror would do, weigh the evidence presented. If that's not good enough for you, then my recommendation for you is to not become an attorney.

Do you not recognize that because the burden of proof lays with the prosecution, failure to meet it does not mean that Z is telling the truth but simply that they cannot prove that he is not?

Sure. But his story holds up.

Kinda like your list of kinda/sorta/maybe "facts" you put out although when you read Serino's report they turned out to be a little less complete/accurate than you made them out to be. And I don't even take Serino or anyone else's report as fact.

I just recited some stuff from memory off the top of my head. I've read a lot of stories since this first happened. I thought there were two lie detector tests, one voice stress and one polygraph. There were two voice stress tests. So sue me.

Now your turn. Put some holes in Zimmerman's story.

 

[griffin]

T punched him in the nose 25-30 times

Cite?

 

[jbombelli]

Maybe he didn't, but are you suggesting that such a possibility shouldn't be looked at?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that there's no DNA evidence supporting Z's claims. T supposedly banged Z's head on the sidewalk more than a dozen times, and punched him in the nose 25-30 times, and yet there isn't as far as I have seen, any physical proof of that other than Z's words.

-How do you bloody someone's nose, without there being blood or offensive wounds on your fists?

-and once the nose is bloodied, shouldn't each successive punch leave blood on the victim?

-How is a person as fair as Z, not exhibit signs of being repeatedly (25-30) struck in the face? As any copper that has worked a domestic, a single good punch will evident a good while after the fact.... so how can 25-30 not?

-Z states that when he shot T, T was coving his mouth and nose trying to muffle his screams.... so this is AFTER he had been punched in the nose.... why is there NO blood on T's hands?

Z words:

I made sure it was past my hand was out of the way. Cuz his hand was still on my face. So I made sure. He was like putting all his weight on my nose and my mouth trying to suffocate me. So he was like creating a crevice with his body and then he like -- when he slid to go for my gun -- that's when it clicked that I had my gun.

I'll stop short of saying Z puposefully injured himself, but the evidence no way implicate T as causing Z's injuries.

I see it as far, far more lilkely that T did that to Z, than it is that Z did it to himself, either intentionally or by accident.

A lot of evidence that I've read about does support Z's story, even if you don't want to see it. Enough that I don't think he should have been charged with anything.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I see it as far, far more lilkely that T did that to Z, than it is that Z did it to himself, either intentionally or by accident.

A lot of evidence that I've read about does support Z's story, even if you don't want to see it. Enough that I don't think he should have been charged with anything.

No, I do want to see it... post it up. If it's a valid persepctive (ie, something that makes me sway towards seeing Z's side), I'll acknowledge it.

 

[griffin]

post it up

You have a lot of nerve asking someone else to "post it up" when you've been asked multiple times by several people to cite your assertion that Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the nose 25-30 times.

You refuse, yet you deign to ask someone else to cite their proof? Physician, heal thyself.

 

[Expat]

To the point of Mr. Zimmerman refusing medical attention. If I had just killed a young man, justified or not, I think I would have refused as well. Not being a professional at this sort of thing, I doubt I would be thinking about needing medical documentation of my injuries. I would be thinking, this kid is dead and now I am going to ask to go to the hospital for my injuries? I think I would try to suck it up and not come across like a wuss.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You have a lot of nerve asking someone else to "post it up" when you've been asked multiple times by several people to cite your assertion that Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the nose 25-30 times.

You refuse, yet you deign to ask someone else to cite their proof? Physician, heal thyself.

Several people?

Fine...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...claim-that-Trayvon-Martin-caused-his-injuries#

 

[Hawkeye]

Well, a lot of smack floating around here. Hope you guys are having fun with it. Looks to me like too much electronic testosterone, but to each his own.

In my view, this is nothing but a political show trial. It's going to have one of two results. Zimmerman gets convicted with a severe enough punishment to appease the news media and anti gun libs, or he is acquitted or gets some judicial wrist slap.

If the jury does not convict, and the court does not sentence him to a lengthy prison term, I fear a media inspired and driven firestorm. Probably a bunch of riots to boot.

In either case, zimmermann's life is pretty much over. Trayvon is still dead. But the political talking heads will have had their time in the sun. Regardless, don't look for this show trial to render justice.

 

[churchmouse]

Well, a lot of smack floating around here. Hope you guys are having fun with it. Looks to me like too much electronic testosterone, but to each his own.

In my view, this is nothing but a political show trial. It's going to have one of two results. Zimmerman gets convicted with a severe enough punishment to appease the news media and anti gun libs, or he is acquitted or gets some judicial wrist slap.

If the jury does not convict, and the court does not sentence him to a lengthy prison term, I fear a media inspired and driven firestorm. Probably a bunch of riots to boot.

In either case, zimmermann's life is pretty much over. Trayvon is still dead. But the political talking heads will have had their time in the sun. Regardless, don't look for this show trial to render justice.

And there you have it.

 

[griffin]

....and Z being punched in the nose 25-30 times, yet no inuries or blood on T's fists, palms, wrists, fingers, or thumbs?

Huh? Trayvon's knuckles were all cut up.

Autopsy shows Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles: report - NY Daily News
Autopsy results reportedly indicate Trayvon Martin suffered injuries to knuckles | Fox News
Trayvon Martin Shooting: Autopsy results say slain teen had injuries to his knuckles - Crimesider - CBS News