17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Sgtusmc]

Update #26 Part 2 – Trayvon Martin Shooting – A year of drug use culminates in predictable violence… | The Last Refuge

What's 'interesting' is that that they're striking all this information about TM as in-admissible which would show TM's state of mind and propensity of engaging in violent behavior.

Yet...

The TM team got their lions share of public empathy when the story was broken with their 'innocent young man just getting skittles and tea' story and the Trayvon Martin Hoodie day and the president proclaiming TM as a son he never had and on and on.

The effects from that initial strategy can't be erased from some people's minds.

 

[Fargo]

Update #26 Part 2 – Trayvon Martin Shooting – A year of drug use culminates in predictable violence… | The Last Refuge

What's 'interesting' is that that they're striking all this information about TM as in-admissible which would show TM's state of mind and propensity of engaging in violent behavior.

Yet...

The TM team got their lions share of public empathy when the story was broken with their 'innocent young man just getting skittles and tea' story and the Trayvon Martin Hoodie day and the president proclaiming TM as a son he never had and on and on.

The effects from that initial strategy can't be erased from some people's minds.

Should they also allow in the allegations that Zimmerman is a child molester too? None of the information in question is admissible for self-defense purposes, all that can be introduced is what Z knew at the time of the incident.

Some of it MIGHT be admissible as relevant to show that T attacked Z, but a lot of it probably isn't.

BTW, nothing was struck as inadmissible. As I understand it, certain things just can't be mentioned in opening because it is not known if they are admissible and the judge would like to MAYBE avoid a mistrial when something said in opening turns out be inadmissible and they get to start over again....

But heaven forbid anyone consider that, instead he must be "fixing" it for the prosecution. Nevermind that you aren't going to find a juror who doesn't already know about it...

Joe

 

[griffin]

Articles: New Evidence Shows Trayvon's Life Unraveling

After Trayvon said that he was "tired and sore" from a fight, this exchange occured:

MARTIN: Cause man dat ***** snitched on me
FRIEND: Bae y you always fightinqq man, you got suspended?
MARTIN: Naw we thumped afta skool in a duckd off spot
FRIEND: Ohh, Well Damee
MARTIN: I lost da 1st round but won da 2nd nd 3rd . . . .
FRIEND: Ohhh So It Wass 3 Rounds? Damn well at least yu wonn lol but yuu needa stop fighting bae Forreal
MARTIN: Nay im not done with fool..... he gone hav 2 see me again
FRIEND: Nooo... Stop, yuu waint gonn bee satisified till yuh suspended again, huh?
MARTIN: Naw but he aint breed nuff 4 me, only his nose

As his girlfriend complained, Martin was "always" fighting. He was also something of a sadist. His opponent, after all, did not bleed enough.

 

[Sgtusmc]

What I'm essentially saying is that for a year and 3 months, Z has essentially been painted as a potential racist kid killer by the T team from the get go. All played out in the media.

And NOW, it's time for trial. So many have invested their emotions in this case, yet the court proceedings have yet to play out. Lets see where all that balled up emotion Pretrial takes this case.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

What I'm essentially saying is that for a year and 3 months, Z has essentially been painted as a potential racist kid killer by the T team from the get go. All played out in the media.

And NOW, it's time for trial. So many have invested their emotions in this case, yet the court proceedings have yet to play out. Lets see where all that balled up emotion Pretrial takes this case.

Pretty much describes my feelings about this mess, also.

 

[Fargo]

What I'm essentially saying is that for a year and 3 months, Z has essentially been painted as a potential racist kid killer by the T team from the get go. All played out in the media.

And NOW, it's time for trial. So many have invested their emotions in this case, yet the court proceedings have yet to play out. Lets see where all that balled up emotion Pretrial takes this case.

I dunno where it ends up, I can't see how the prosecution thinks it is going to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. I really don't know what they were thinking charging it in the first place, especially as murder.

Casey Anthony was publicly vilified and tried in the media as well and we saw how that worked out for the state despite her having unmistakeably unclean hands. There again, I didn't see guilt BRD either where the state advance 4 mutually contradictory theories of the case.

I don't know whether or not Zimmerman has clean hands either, at best he was foolish both in what he said on the 911 call and in what he did after. Maybe things happened exactly as he said they did or maybe he is backfilling. Either way, no one alive knows but him so I just don't see how you get to beyond a reasonable doubt against his story.

Either way, here is hoping that justice is served and that the media interference and involvement does not result in injustice. I do find it quite despicable the way both sides have to some extent played this in the media, particularly the "reverends" at the outset. IME, the more media attention there is the harder it is for the law and justice to be upheld.

Best,

Joe

 

[j706]

While I have mixed feelings on shooting a person over a fist fight it seems quite clear that the deceased was a thug destined for a life of arrests and failure in general. The country is full of them.

 

[churchmouse]

While I have mixed feelings on shooting a person over a fist fight it seems quite clear that the deceased was a thug destined for a life of arrests and failure in general. The country is full of them.

A fist fight is one thing. Getting your head bashed against the concrete...repeatedly...is beyond a fist fight and yes, I would shoot someone for that. That is definitely life threatening.

 

[Hotdoger]

While I have mixed feelings on shooting a person over a fist fight .

I don't.

If they are going to try and hurt me I am going to try to end it.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I don't.

If they are going to try and hurt me I am going to try to end it.

Agreed, I am getting older and have no desire to subject my body to any harm from some douchebag with a control problem

 

[Sgtusmc]

While I have mixed feelings on shooting a person over a fist fight it seems quite clear that the deceased was a thug destined for a life of arrests and failure in general. The country is full of them.

In Z's case, his gun was not presented prior to being on the ground and getting his head bashed into the concrete.

For Z to have waited til he felt like his life was slipping to draw a gun, I seriously doubt he egged T into a fist fight.

 

[Fargo]

In Z's case, his gun was not presented prior to being on the ground and getting his head bashed into the concrete.

For Z to have waited til he felt like his life was slipping to draw a gun, I seriously doubt he egged T into a fist fight.

Sez who? How do you know when his gun was presented or that he waited until his life was slipping? His injuries were far from life threatening. Why is the facially self-serving word of the guy who was trying (unsuccessfully) to avoid a murder charge suddenly now gospel?

I'm not saying he is lying, but I am damn well saying there is no way you or I KNOW that his story is the truth....

Just cause Trayvon may have been a lowlife doesn't automatically canonize the guy who chased and killed him.

Joe

 

[churchmouse]

Sez who? How do you know when his gun was presented or that he waited until his life was slipping? His injuries were far from life threatening. Why is the facially self-serving word of the guy who was trying (unsuccessfully) to avoid a murder charge suddenly now gospel?

I'm not saying he is lying, but I am damn well saying there is no way you or I KNOW that his story is the truth....

Just cause Trayvon may have been a lowlife doesn't automatically canonize the guy who chased and killed him.

Joe

Been in many fights....ones that actually ended with you having your head pounded into the concrete???

Ever faced down a "Real" thug hell bent on kicking your A$$.

By all accounts this kid lived to fight. Knew how to fight and was kicking the crap out of Z.

The rest is up for grabs as I was not there but I have been in more fights than I care to discuss. Grew up in a rough and tumble area.
Z does not look to be one to handle himself well in a confrontation. Should not have been there but he was. Now we will see.

Just curious.

 

[Fargo]

Been in many fights....ones that actually ended with you having your head pounded into the concrete???

Ever faced down a "Real" thug hell bent on kicking your A$$.

By all accounts this kid lived to fight. Knew how to fight and was kicking the crap out of Z.

The rest is up for grabs as I was not there but I have been in more fights than I care to discuss. Grew up in a rough and tumble area.
Z does not look to be one to handle himself well in a confrontation. Should not have been there but he was. Now we will see.

Just curious.

I'm curious what the number of fights I've been in has to do with whether Z is being completely truthful or not. I've been around a scrap or two but I generally don't get into the internet dick measuring contests of how tough/not tough I am.

As I said, I don't know if he is being truthful or not so I'm not saying one way or the other. What I will say is that the only other guy that knows what happened is dead so I'll take the guy who shot him's story with a grain of salt.

I agree that Z was unprepared for what he got into by following T. However, that makes it more likely to me that he didn't engage in this calm calculus that "Oh my life is now in danger so I should draw." Heck, I would put money on it that he has significant gaps in his memory of the event and that he has a lot of holes to fill in.

I know that there are gaps in my memory of most every fight/confrontation I've been in, although it does seem to get better the older I get.

Best,

Joe

 

[Sgtusmc]

Sez who? How do you know when his gun was presented or that he waited until his life was slipping? His injuries were far from life threatening. Why is the facially self-serving word of the guy who was trying (unsuccessfully) to avoid a murder charge suddenly now gospel?

I'm not saying he is lying, but I am damn well saying there is no way you or I KNOW that his story is the truth....

Just cause Trayvon may have been a lowlife doesn't automatically canonize the guy who chased and killed him.

Joe

When you're getting your head bashed into concrete, that means you're on the bottom, not on top. The shot didn't occur until Z was on the bottom. The blood and cuts on the back of Z's head indicates it was significant force. Enough to probably give someone a concussion or to black out. After you black out, your life is in the hands of the aggressor. You don't know if and when they're going to stop doing damage just because you're knocked out or if the aggressor is going to just end you.

 

[jamil]

I dunno where it ends up, I can't see how the prosecution thinks it is going to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. I really don't know what they were thinking charging it in the first place, especially as murder.

Casey Anthony was publicly vilified and tried in the media as well and we saw how that worked out for the state despite her having unmistakeably unclean hands. There again, I didn't see guilt BRD either where the state advance 4 mutually contradictory theories of the case.

I don't know whether or not Zimmerman has clean hands either, at best he was foolish both in what he said on the 911 call and in what he did after. Maybe things happened exactly as he said they did or maybe he is backfilling. Either way, no one alive knows but him so I just don't see how you get to beyond a reasonable doubt against his story.

Either way, here is hoping that justice is served and that the media interference and involvement does not result in injustice. I do find it quite despicable the way both sides have to some extent played this in the media, particularly the "reverends" at the outset. IME, the more media attention there is the harder it is for the law and justice to be upheld.

Best,

Joe

I think the strategy will be to dare the jury to find him not guilty.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm curious what the number of fights I've been in has to do with whether Z is being completely truthful or not. I've been around a scrap or two but I generally don't get into the internet dick measuring contests of how tough/not tough I am.

As I said, I don't know if he is being truthful or not so I'm not saying one way or the other. What I will say is that the only other guy that knows what happened is dead so I'll take the guy who shot him's story with a grain of salt.

I agree that Z was unprepared for what he got into by following T. However, that makes it more likely to me that he didn't engage in this calm calculus that "Oh my life is now in danger so I should draw." Heck, I would put money on it that he has significant gaps in his memory of the event and that he has a lot of holes to fill in.

I know that there are gaps in my memory of most every fight/confrontation I've been in, although it does seem to get better the older I get.

Best,

Joe

Really. Not a dick measuring contest. Also not a measurement of your bravery or toughness. That is something only you know. Not the point I was trying to make and not a knock on you.

My statement goes to ones ability to understand what transpires in the mind when you are getting a good old fashioned beat down. Everything changes once you see the purple and yellow flashes of light in you head. Things get blurry after that. Rational thought is not a factor only fear and survival.

I have no idea what he was thinking either. I was not there and neither were any of us but we as individuals know how we would respond to this.

I never understood why he pursued him unless he felt "T" was acting very off normal. "Z" does not appear to be a rumbler just an average guy.

If in fact "T" turned on him with a bull rush maneuver (ever seen this??) and started beating him down (typical thug) then I can see how and why he responded as he did.

Truth...well, we only have his account. To submit who "T" really was to the jury is a way of knowing (Maybe) who he really was and accept or reject "Z" and his actions. JMHO


-CM-

 

[churchmouse]

I think the strategy will be to dare the jury to find him not guilty.

If it fits...........

The race card is getting very old. Time for this to go. Play it on the facts and nothing more.

 

[jamil]

If it fits...........

The race cars is getting very old. Time for this to go. Play it on the facts and nothing more.

I wish facts mattered. If the facts mattered T would be a troubled young thug instead of an innocent little boy.

 

[Expat]

I think the strategy will be to dare the jury to find him not guilty.

Well we know that anyone that says something critical of Obama's son may have their personal information tweeted by race baiting libs. That at that point they may have to go into hiding or recant whatever they said. I wouldn't want to be on that jury.