17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[CarmelHP]

So no one is going to answer the question posed?

You mean no one is taking the bait? Imagine that. Maybe if everyone thinks that its moronic to posit if short GZ was chasing long legged 17 year old high school athlete TMas if pigs flew.

 

[bobzilla]

You mean no one is taking the bait? Imagine that. Maybe if everyone thinks that its moronic to posit if short GZ was chasing long legged 17 year old high school athlete TMas if pigs flew.

Don't matter. He deserved to be financially and emotionally wrecked. Right? The "ifs" jsut make that assumption OK.

 

[KG1]

I don't get why he thinks anyone would answer his obvious self serving hypothetical filled with "if's" and then tries to say that "this is no gotcha question" Yeah right.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Hence the word "if" in my previous post. However, I haven't seen the defense articulate anywhere that Zimmerman was fleeing from Martin.

We are are in agreement that Martin took note of Zimmerman (ie that he was aware at the very least of being watched by him), correct? We are also, all in agreement that Martin and Zimmerman were unknown to each other, correct?

Now IF Martin was NOT doing anything wrong (which I won't argue about, but "if") and IF Zimmerman was chasing him, would that not change the situation significantly?

There's no "gotcha" moment in the question. I would just like to hear honest responses (not holding my breath, tho).

Your scenario would seem to contradict M.'s girlfriend's testimony and, one would think if Z. were chasing M., his voice would have indicated such during his 911 call - after which, leaked testimony has stated, he was returning to his vehicle.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I don't get why he thinks anyone would answer his obvious self serving hypothetical filled with "if's" and then tries to say that "this is no gotcha question" Yeah right.

Well, and this is not solely directed towards you, but, no one here can say who was chasing who (but who are we kidding?). No one can say whether or not Martin was doing anything wrong.

Here's another question, since apparently people are too afraid to answer the other one. If Martin had killed Zimmerman, should he be tried (and subsequently convicted) of murder? This assumes that the exact same events, as you view them, took place except, it is Zimmerman that ends up dead rather than Martin.

Edit: it also assumes that Martin gives a narrative most beneficial to his side

 

[cobber]

I have always felt the prosecutors were headline hunting camera seekers. There was probably some racial pressure applied as well.

The State's attorney for Seminole County declined to file charges.

The Governor could have left it up to the county.

Special prosecutor Angela Corey was appointed by the Governor.


Who was responding to public pressure here?
(hint: His office is in Talahassee, not Sanford.)

 

[CarmelHP]

Well, and this is not solely directed towards you, but, no one here can say who was chasing who (but who are we kidding?). No one can say whether or not Martin was doing anything wrong.

Here's another question, since apparently people are too afraid to answer the other one. If Martin had killed Zimmerman, should he be tried (and subsequently convicted) of murder? This assumes that the exact same events, as you view them, took place except, it is Zimmerman that ends up dead rather than Martin.

Edit: it also assumes that Martin gives a narrative most beneficial to his side

Can we also assume little green men gave Martin a death ray and anti-gravity boots as long as we're playing, "let's pretend."

 

[Kutnupe14]

Your scenario would seem to contradict M.'s girlfriend's testimony and, one would think if Z. were chasing M., his voice would have indicated such during his 911 call - after which, leaked testimony has stated, he was returning to his vehicle.

That's actually a very good point. From all that I understood, he was exiting his vehicle as he ended his call with 911. From the end of the call to the time that the gunshot is heard is 120 seconds. If you look at the overhead view of the apartment complex, and take Zimmerman's statements, Zimmerman made his way all the way from C to E in order to identify a a street. This would mean he passed by the "T" in the sidewalk at least once, without seeing Martin.
After finding out the street, Zimmerman, in returning to his truck would have to cross pass the "T" again. The quickest way back to his truck would be from C to E right? How in the world, if Martin approached Zimmerman from behind (amazingly not being noticed prior to), does Martin's body end up some 25-30 yards away from the "T" in the sidewalk? How does all this take place, with leisurely strolling Zimmerman, in 2 minutes? Even more confusing, is how Zimmerman wasn't aware of the street he was supposedly looking to identify. That street is Retreat View CIRCLE. The road makes a complete loop around the entire, small complex. How is it even remotely possible that a guy who had been so active as the watch captain was unaware of that?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Can we also assume little green men gave Martin a death ray and anti-gravity boots as long as we're playing, "let's pretend."

Or that a certain mythological creature, that refuses to let goats cross his bridge, is in our mist.

 

[KG1]

Well, and this is not solely directed towards you, but, no one here can say who was chasing who (but who are we kidding?). No one can say whether or not Martin was doing anything wrong.

Here's another question, since apparently people are too afraid to answer the other one. If Martin had killed Zimmerman, should he be tried (and subsequently convicted) of murder? This assumes that the exact same events, as you view them, took place except, it is Zimmerman that ends up dead rather than Martin.

Edit: it also assumes that Martin gives a narrative most beneficial to his side

That's not how it happened so I don't get what your point is in your hypothetical game of twister here.

 

[bobzilla]

Well, and this is not solely directed towards you, but, no one here can say who was chasing who (but who are we kidding?). No one can say whether or not Martin was doing anything wrong.

Here's another question, since apparently people are too afraid to answer the other one. If Martin had killed Zimmerman, should he be tried (and subsequently convicted) of murder? This assumes that the exact same events, as you view them, took place except, it is Zimmerman that ends up dead rather than Martin.

Edit: it also assumes that Martin gives a narrative most beneficial to his side

IF the evidence is exactly what we have now. IF you're saying that nothing else changes. IF... then yes, Martin would indeed be convicted of murder, if not manslaughter. Killing a person because they were following you does not make it right.

But now you want to turn those words into the "oh, you just want to kill blacke people" line I'm sure.

I never put it together... but cops make the perfect trolls. They're always paTROLLING the streets.

 

[bobzilla]

That's not how it happened so I don't get what your point is in your hypothetical game of twister here.

It is how he's going to label anyone that says "yes" a racist bigot that wants to kill black people.

 

[cobber]

Well, and this is not solely directed towards you, but, no one here can say who was chasing who (but who are we kidding?). No one can say whether or not Martin was doing anything wrong.

Here's another question, since apparently people are too afraid to answer the other one. If Martin had killed Zimmerman, should he be tried (and subsequently convicted) of murder? This assumes that the exact same events, as you view them, took place except, it is Zimmerman that ends up dead rather than Martin.

Edit: it also assumes that Martin gives a narrative most beneficial to his side

In all the posts on this topic, other than suggesting Z exercised poor judgment, I don't think anyone here has floated a plausible murder scenario, in which Z deliberately executed Martin. Can anyone set forward a few facts that Z's conduct "evince[d] a depraved mind regardless of human life"? Not just that he was a bozo and made some unwise decisions, or that M wasn't engaged in any wrong-doing.

For those who suggest Z was guilty of 2nd degree murder, please construct a theory of the case here.

Absent such a theory (hopefully Corey had one in bringing charges), this whole undertaking is just bread and circuses.

 

[CarmelHP]

Or that a certain mythological creature, that refuses to let goats cross his bridge, is in our mist.

That creature being you, apparently. The "mist" is the fog you're throwing up.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That's not how it happened so I don't get what your point is in your hypothetical game of twister here.

I've allowed you to make you own hypothesis in the second instance. All I asked is what you would expect if Martin had killed Zimmerman.

(Kut if he's playing twister, then a bunch of others are dancing circles around the subject)

 

[Kutnupe14]

IF the evidence is exactly what we have now. IF you're saying that nothing else changes. IF... then yes, Martin would indeed be convicted of murder, if not manslaughter. Killing a person because they were following you does not make it right.

But now you want to turn those words into the "oh, you just want to kill blacke people" line I'm sure.

I never put it together... but cops make the perfect trolls. They're always paTROLLING the streets.

Nope, just wanted to see a honest response. And for that I thank you. I don't take exception to opinion, it's the stuff afterwards.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It is how he's going to label anyone that says "yes" a racist bigot that wants to kill black people.

Careful not to infer too much there, BZ. I haven't pulled the race card in this thread, but it's sure looking like you want to make this a racial issue.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That creature being you, apparently. The "mist" is the fog you're throwing up.

hoping you are pointing out that I missed a "D"

 

[Kutnupe14]

In all the posts on this topic, other than suggesting Z exercised poor judgment, I don't think anyone here has floated a plausible murder scenario, in which Z deliberately executed Martin. Can anyone set forward a few facts that Z's conduct "evince[d] a depraved mind regardless of human life"? Not just that he was a bozo and made some unwise decisions, or that M wasn't engaged in any wrong-doing.

For those who suggest Z was guilty of 2nd degree murder, please construct a theory of the case here.

Absent such a theory (hopefully Corey had one in bringing charges), this whole undertaking is just bread and circuses.

I don't think it murder applies either; just for the record. I do not think that Zimmerman intentionally set out to kill Martin. If he had, I seriously doubt he would have called the police first. I think manslaughter fit better. But regardless, Zimmerman's poor decisions put blood on his hands.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

That's not how it happened so I don't get what your point is in your hypothetical game of twister here.

Truth be told you don't know how it happened. You hear one side and from eye witnesses who really didn't see too much. It may have went down like Kutupe said, it may have went down where Martin was the aggressor and Zimmerman truly was defending his life.

I have read in articles that Zimmerman followed after Martin, I have read on here with no corroborating links that Martin circled Zimmermans truck and was yelling at him. Those are two entirely different accounts on what happened.

I just hope the true facts come out and we probably wont ever know what they are unless you are a juror. The problem is the "first hand accounts" seem to be changing as time goes along. I read an article this morning that four witnesses are wavering on their stories.

Trayvon Martin shooting: Witnesses change stories ahead of Zimmerman trial | The Lookout - Yahoo! News