17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Pocketman]

I think this would have turned out differently if Martin wasn't pumped full of a chemical known for being mood altering and causing irrational, aggressive and violent outbursts.

Carmel, I am disappointed that you would you embellish. "Traces of THC" is not the same as "pumped full."

I was referring to testosterone.

Seems to be some of that floating around in this thread.

 

[KG1]

I wonder if your opinion is typical of Zimmerman supporters? Explains a lot if they are?

Well pro-Zim crowd? Do you agree with Jake or not? And silence makes you complicit in sharing the opinion.

Well....................?

Yes we all agree with him. Could'nt you tell by the way his rep just went off the chart after he made that comment and all the post following his?

 

[CarmelHP]

Carmel, I am disappointed that you would you embellish. "Traces of THC" is not the same as "pumped full."

I didn't say THC, did it go over your head?

 

[CarmelHP]

As far as THC to which I thought you were referring, this.





Martin's autopsy indicated that medical examiners found THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, when they tested Martin's blood and urine. The amount described in the autopsy report is such a low level that it would have played no role in Martin's behavior, said Larry Kobilinsky, a professor of forensic science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York.

This was responded to, repetition doesn't make it so.

Is Zimmerman a eunuch unaffected by testosterone? Sounds like he was plenty
amped up before a punch was ever thrown in the 911 call.[/

QUOTE]

It is the most dangerous chemical known to man. If you think testosterone affects teenage boys the same as someone 10 years older then you've never been a teenage boy. Are you a eunuch?

 

[churchmouse]

I have personally never used a drug, but have been witness to multiples upon multiples that have. As far as marijuana goes, I'll give you irrational, but I'll be honest, I'm not so sure of the "aggressive and violent outburst" part.

Care to post you credentials involving pharmacology/toxicology?

THC on its own does not generate aggressiveness at least not in the folks I have known to use it. It does put some paranoia in the mix.

 

[churchmouse]

As to the statement of being "Amped up" has anyone ever faced off with someone in a high stress situation like this, I have, Multiple times doing the same thing "Z" did. I never shot anyone. Drew my weapon more than once but not used. Got seriously physical more than once. Hell yes you are amped up. "Z" was not aggressive or SA. He would not have gotten jumped if he was. JMHO

 

[griffin]

I doubt that it paints a picture of him being a "bad" person.

No, the whole stealing people's jewelry paints a picture of him being a bad person.

 

[churchmouse]

Man, not profiling but how much evidence is required to show who this young man really was. My daughters fiance is a young black man. He and all his friends agree this fellow was a punk A$$ thug. They would know. You guy's are ate the hell up. Walk outside in the dark around 21st and meridian. Observe and report back with some incite. End of rant....carry on.

 

[hornadylnl]

Don't care what the THC affected, my concern is with why it was there.

M was no choir boy.

There's at least 91 INGOers who couldn't make the choir then.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/214614-call_out.html

 

[hornadylnl]

This was responded to, repetition doesn't make it so.

QUOTE]

It is the most dangerous chemical known to man. If you think testosterone affects teenage boys the same as someone 10 years older then you've never been a teenage boy. Are you a eunuch?

So Martin was high on testosterone yet Zimmerman was not. Zimmerman was cool, calm and collected. You can tell that by his conversation with the 911 operator.

 

[griffin]

For a group that is so pissed off about media inacuracies, they sure like creating a lot of their own.

For someone who has posted the most in this thread, you sure like ignoring the facts of the case which have been posted multiple times.

Remember, Zimmerman was taken to the scene for walk-throughs three different times in the immediate aftermath. Each time, according the to police reports, he was grilled about exactly what happened and how. He was also told there were eye witnesses to the events of that night, although he had absolutely no idea what they had seen.

In each walk-through, and in each interview, his story never changed. Not once. And every credible eye witness backs up his story to a tee. Trayvon had circled his car at one point, quite menacingly, yelling curse words at him. Zimmerman blew that off. He just wanted to keep an eye on Trayvon until police got there.

After Trayvon walked back between the buildings, he got out of the car, initially to follow him at a distance but, when told not to do that, he was walking back out towards his vehicle to get an address. Suddenly Trayvon appeared and demanded "You got a problem with me?" Zimmerman said "No." and Trayvon said "Well, you do now!" and dropped him with a single punch, then mounted him MMA style and threw a melee of punches while Zimmerman screamed for help.

Witnesses back this up 100%.

Trayvon tried to smother Zimmerman, probably to shut him up, and when that didn't work he tried to slam Zimmerman's head into the concrete to knock him unconscious. At this point Trayvon became aware of Zimmerman's gun/holster. They both went for the gun, and Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Trayvon's left hand was on the slide action of the gun very likely, as he had a cut on the inside of his ring finger supposedly.

Witnesses back this up 100%.

Here's the deal. If Zimmerman made any of that up, and any discrepency at all came to light from witness testimony, he would have cooked himself. That he didn't apparently impressed the investigation team enough to recommend no charges be filed. At least initially, until Obama had a son.

 

[KG1]

There's at least 91 INGOers who couldn't make the choir then.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/214614-call_out.html

Why don't you take another "call out" poll and this time ask how many ingo'ers have ever possessed stolen jewelery or took a swing at their bus driver.

 

[hornadylnl]

For someone who has posted the most in this thread, you sure like ignoring the facts of the case which have been posted multiple times.

Remember, Zimmerman was taken to the scene for walk-throughs three different times in the immediate aftermath. Each time, according the to police reports, he was grilled about exactly what happened and how. He was also told there were eye witnesses to the events of that night, although he had absolutely no idea what they had seen.

In each walk-through, and in each interview, his story never changed. Not once. And every credible eye witness backs up his story to a tee. Trayvon had circled his car at one point, quite menacingly, yelling curse words at him. Zimmerman blew that off. He just wanted to keep an eye on Trayvon until police got there.

First I've heard of any reports of Martin circling around the car cursing Zimmerman.

After Trayvon walked back between the buildings, he got out of the car, initially to follow him at a distance but, when told not to do that, he was walking back out towards his vehicle to get an address. Suddenly Trayvon appeared and demanded "You got a problem with me?" Zimmerman said "No." and Trayvon said "Well, you do now!" and dropped him with a single punch, then mounted him MMA style and threw a melee of punches while Zimmerman screamed for help.

Witnesses back this up 100%.

First I've heard of any eye witnesses to who the first punch. I've not read anywhere that there was an eye witness to the first punch.

Trayvon tried to smother Zimmerman, probably to shut him up, and when that didn't work he tried to slam Zimmerman's head into the concrete to knock him unconscious. At this point Trayvon became aware of Zimmerman's gun/holster. They both went for the gun, and Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Trayvon's left hand was on the slide action of the gun very likely, as he had a cut on the inside of his ring finger supposedly.

Witnesses back this up 100%.

Where are the reports of these witnesses?

Here's the deal. If Zimmerman made any of that up, and any discrepency at all came to light from witness testimony, he would have cooked himself. That he didn't apparently impressed the investigation team enough to recommend no charges be filed. At least initially, until Obama had a son.

There were investigators who DID want to charge him.

 

[churchmouse]

For someone who has posted the most in this thread, you sure like ignoring the facts of the case which have been posted multiple times.

Remember, Zimmerman was taken to the scene for walk-throughs three different times in the immediate aftermath. Each time, according the to police reports, he was grilled about exactly what happened and how. He was also told there were eye witnesses to the events of that night, although he had absolutely no idea what they had seen.

In each walk-through, and in each interview, his story never changed. Not once. And every credible eye witness backs up his story to a tee. Trayvon had circled his car at one point, quite menacingly, yelling curse words at him. Zimmerman blew that off. He just wanted to keep an eye on Trayvon until police got there.

After Trayvon walked back between the buildings, he got out of the car, initially to follow him at a distance but, when told not to do that, he was walking back out towards his vehicle to get an address. Suddenly Trayvon appeared and demanded "You got a problem with me?" Zimmerman said "No." and Trayvon said "Well, you do now!" and dropped him with a single punch, then mounted him MMA style and threw a melee of punches while Zimmerman screamed for help.

Witnesses back this up 100%.

Trayvon tried to smother Zimmerman, probably to shut him up, and when that didn't work he tried to slam Zimmerman's head into the concrete to knock him unconscious. At this point Trayvon became aware of Zimmerman's gun/holster. They both went for the gun, and Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Trayvon's left hand was on the slide action of the gun very likely, as he had a cut on the inside of his ring finger supposedly.

Witnesses back this up 100%.

Here's the deal. If Zimmerman made any of that up, and any discrepency at all came to light from witness testimony, he would have cooked himself. That he didn't apparently impressed the investigation team enough to recommend no charges be filed. At least initially, until Obama had a son.

Punk A$$ thug...............nuff said.
If "Z" was aware, (SA) this would never have happened. Things would have developed differently and possibly no firearms used.
Nothing better than a really good fist fight.

 

[Kutnupe14]

In each walk-through, and in each interview, his story never changed. Not once. And every credible eye witness backs up his story to a tee. Trayvon had circled his car at one point, quite menacingly, yelling curse words at him. Zimmerman blew that off. He just wanted to keep an eye on Trayvon until police got there.

Do you have a cite for this?

 

[hornadylnl]

Punk A$$ thug...............nuff said.
If "Z" was aware, (SA) this would never have happened. Things would have developed differently and possibly no firearms used.
Nothing better than a really good fist fight.

Must not be cut out for neighborhood watching or being a cop.

 

[bmbutch]

I've stayed out of this thread, but dang, with all the recent evidence, some even being reported by the mainstream media, how is anybody still defending TM?

So, you are pinned to ground, head being struck into concrete, face being pummeled, you going to just let him beat you to death?

If he goes for your gun, going to let him just have it?

My answers are simply: I'm going to shoot you, very likely more than 1 round.

Does all that mean TM deserved to die, No, but GZ sure didn't iether!

 

[hornadylnl]

I've stayed out of this thread, but dang, with all the recent evidence, some even being reported by the mainstream media, how is anybody still defending TM?

So, you are pinned to ground, head being struck into concrete, face being pummeled, you going to just let him beat you to death?

If he goes for your gun, going to let him just have it?

My answers are simply: I'm going to shoot you, very likely more than 1 round.

Does all that mean TM deserved to die, No, but GZ sure didn't iether!

None of which I've been arguing. My point is that I should be able to walk in a public space free from having to show my papers at a Nazi checkpoint.

I've said multiple times that I don't think Zimmerman is guilty of a crime. My beef is that he got himself involved in a situation and has some culpability in how it unfolded.

Take away all the race, age and other issues out of this and post it here as a hypothetical. Kid walking down the street who you feel is suspicious. You see no evidence of a crime being committed. What do you do? Quotes from other threads were posted previously in this thread and there were several saying not to insert yourself in a dangerous situation. Self defense is not offense.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I've stayed out of this thread, but dang, with all the recent evidence, some even being reported by the mainstream media, how is anybody still defending TM?

So, you are pinned to ground, head being struck into concrete, face being pummeled, you going to just let him beat you to death?

If he goes for your gun, going to let him just have it?

My answers are simply: I'm going to shoot you, very likely more than 1 round.

Does all that mean TM deserved to die, No, but GZ sure didn't iether!

Nope, you kinda have to shoot. The problem is what led up to that, and if that was justification for the conclusion of the interaction.

I have seen people here many, many times talk about "close call" situations that they were in and making another person aware, either verbally or physically revealing (still holstered), that were carrying a firearm. If Zimmerman did this, and initiated physical contact, deadly force is on the table for Martin to employ.

 

[churchmouse]

None of which I've been arguing. My point is that I should be able to walk in a public space free from having to show my papers at a Nazi checkpoint.

I've said multiple times that I don't think Zimmerman is guilty of a crime. My beef is that he got himself involved in a situation and has some culpability in how it unfolded.

Take away all the race, age and other issues out of this and post it here as a hypothetical. Kid walking down the street who you feel is suspicious. You see no evidence of a crime being committed. What do you do? Quotes from other threads were posted previously in this thread and there were several saying not to insert yourself in a dangerous situation. Self defense is not offense.

Makes sense. That was not really a public space. Yes, a sidewalk, yes he was visiting but it was dark, he was a stranger to "Z" who lives and "watch's" there and he was acting a bit hinky. This would have raised our suspicions.
He called the cops, he was following instructions to a point. The kid went "Off" public ground...follow me here....between houses...that would have gotten his A$$ kicked round these parts...and then he jumped "Z"
Seriously folks.....he would have not walked that far around here if he was a suspicious character. Someone would have asked him what he was doing. Proper answer, carry on. Stupid WTF answer, ambulance.