17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[IndyDave1776]

As usual, most of this discussion is built on unverifiable assumptions based on the personal experiences of those making comments. Allow me to offer a short primer about assumptions:


Assume

 

[hornadylnl]

As usual, most of this discussion is built on unverifiable assumptions based on the personal experiences of those making comments. Allow me to offer a short primer about assumptions:


Assume

Aren't you assuming Zimmerman is innocent?

BTW, I assume he's innocent of criminal charges until proven otherwise.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Aren't you assuming Zimmerman is innocent?

BTW, I assume he's innocent of criminal charges until proven otherwise.

He is indeed innocent until proven guilty in court.

 

[bobzilla]

He is indeed innocent until proven guilty in court.

Not in today's world, unfortunately. Too many people already believe he's guilty.

 

[hornadylnl]

Not in today's world, unfortunately. Too many people already believe he's guilty.

And too many people believe Martin was guilty before the first word was spoken or the first punch thrown.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

And too many people believe Martin was guilty before the first word was spoken or the first punch thrown.

Guilt is a legal term with a specific meaning. I don't know anyone who think's Martin was guilty of anything. However if he attacked Zimmerman as viciously as it appears based upon the injuries Zimmerman sustained, it's no wonder that he was shot dead. That doesn't make him guilty of anything. Stupid maybe for bringing Skittles to a gunfight.

 

[IndyDave1776]

And too many people believe Martin was guilty before the first word was spoken or the first punch thrown.

I had been hearing the liberals screaming for Zimmerman's head on a pike for some time before the pro-Zimmerman push-back started. Further, I have not heard of anything to parallel the efforts of the NBBP or Jackson/Sharpton, random acts of anti-white violence ostensibly in retaliation for this situation, and even hostile acts on the highway. It would seem that the pro-Martin crowd wins the contest for having already arrived at a verdict, being generally obnoxious, and being generally dangerous.

If we want to be fair, let's take up a collection to offer a 'dead or alive' reward for Malik Zulu Shabazz. Right, I certainly don't see that happening.

Now, why don't you lay off the rest of us for a while.

 

[hornadylnl]

I had been hearing the liberals screaming for Zimmerman's head on a pike for some time before the pro-Zimmerman push-back started. Further, I have not heard of anything to parallel the efforts of the NBBP or Jackson/Sharpton, random acts of anti-white violence ostensibly in retaliation for this situation, and even hostile acts on the highway. It would seem that the pro-Martin crowd wins the contest for having already arrived at a verdict, being generally obnoxious, and being generally dangerous.

If we want to be fair, let's take up a collection to offer a 'dead or alive' reward for Malik Zulu Shabazz. Right, I certainly don't see that happening.

Now, why don't you lay off the rest of us for a while.

Because none of that has a damn thing to do with whether Zimmerman is guilty or innocent of a crime. The whole "look at what so and so said, didn't say, did, didn't do" regarding this case reeks of "but he's doing it to".

Do I think the media is fair or doesn't have an agenda? Of course not. Are any of those posts going to change it? Of course not. Of all these stories and non stories that everyone keeps posting, they wouldn't care about them either if it weren't a way to jab at the race crowd.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Because none of that has a damn thing to do with whether Zimmerman is guilty or innocent of a crime. The whole "look at what so and so said, didn't say, did, didn't do" regarding this case reeks of "but he's doing it to".

Do I think the media is fair or doesn't have an agenda? Of course not. Are any of those posts going to change it? Of course not. Of all these stories and non stories that everyone keeps posting, they wouldn't care about them either if it weren't a way to jab at the race crowd.

You are absolutely correct. Your swipe at any and all who did not presume that Martin was the angelic 12 year old as depicted in the MSM holds equal validity.

 

[hornadylnl]

You are absolutely correct. Your swipe at any and all who did not presume that Martin was the angelic 12 year old as depicted in the MSM holds equal validity.

I never presumed Martin was an angelic 12 year old. I just don't want to live in a country where I have to show my papers to whoever my looks might get their panties in a bunch.

 

[Glock19]

Glock 19, that has been posted here before and the attorneys here said that is not correct.

Well get an attorney from Florida. Because him being arrested has everything to do with a civil case. I was involved with a similar case in Florida and its very much true.
Heres a link to the Florida Laws and Statutes page...

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/776.032

 

[Glock19]

Can you provide a link please? For the:“We are not asking that he be convicted; We are asking that he be arrested”

If it is true - they wont get rich.

So they bankrupt him. Not like they're going to reap in a lot of money from the HOA either.

Theres to many links for me to pick just one...google it, that way no one can say im biased about one right side or left side article.... It was the Attorney Crump that said those exact workds, His Mother only said “We simply wanted an arrest; we wanted nothing more than an arrest. We wanted nothing more, nothing less; We just wanted an arrest, and we got it, and I say thank you. Thank you Lord; Thank you Jesus”

 

[griffin]

Well get an attorney from Florida. Because him being arrested has everything to do with a civil case. I was involved with a similar case in Florida and its very much true.
Heres a link to the Florida Laws and Statutes page...

776.032 - Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force. - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

I don't see where the law states what you are asserting. It simply says:

A person who uses force, including deadly force, as outlined in law is justified and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action (unless the force is used against a LEO, etc.)​

So, it looks like if Zimmerman is found justified in using deadly force, he is immune from civil suits. This could happen either before trial or at trial. What am I missing?

I will also refer you to this post by Fargo: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ighborhood_watch_captain-239.html#post2807199

 

[griffin]

I don't know about anywhere else but just because your innocent in a criminal trial it doesn't mean Jack in a civil trial. Look at OJ in California

Totally different circumstances. a) OJ wasn't on trial for self defense, and b) even if he was CA doesn't have civil immunity in SD cases.

Both of those are true for Florida and this case. As for the Martin Lee Anderson case in FL, that also was not a SD justified use of deadly force. Neither of those cases, OJ or MLA, have anything to do with justified deadly force in self defense.

 

[Glock19]

I don't see where the law states what you are asserting. It simply says:

A person who uses force, including deadly force, as outlined in law is justified and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action (unless the force is used against a LEO, etc.)​

So, it looks like if Zimmerman is found justified in using deadly force, he is immune from civil suits. This could happen either before trial or at trial. What am I missing?

I will also refer you to this post by Fargo: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ighborhood_watch_captain-239.html#post2807199

You are correct...sort of... Florida Civil trials use the fact that you were arrested as proof. If there was never any proof he committed a crime then how was he arrested? If he was justified then there shouldnt of been a need to arrest him. Your innocent until proven guilty right? ON what grounds are they arresting the "innocent" man.. Whatever grounds they used are the same ones the civil suit will be based on...

 

[Glock19]

Totally different circumstances. a) OJ wasn't on trial for self defense, and b) even if he was CA doesn't have civil immunity in SD cases.

Both of those are true for Florida and this case. As for the Martin Lee Anderson case in FL, that also was not a SD justified use of deadly force. Neither of those cases, OJ or MLA, have anything to do with justified deadly force in self defense.

I know I was using the fact that they were arrested and then found guilty in a civl trial as my example...sort of...you went in to deep...

And no offense to Fargo, but what does this

"Whoever wrote that article has no understanding of how that section of Florida law actually works and seems to have a serious axe to grind. The arrest is meaningless, rather it is a judicial determination of PC that matters. Whether that happens in a criminal or civil case is irrelevant."

have to do with what i said? Florida has really Jacked up work-around laws...I lived there for a long time, worked there, and saw alot of stupidity with civil trials....

 

[griffin]

If there was never any proof he committed a crime then how was he arrested?

EXACTLY!

My guess is prosecutorial abuse. What's yours?

 

[IndyDave1776]

EXACTLY!

My guess is prosecutorial abuse. What's yours?

If being arrested opens him up to civil suits with there not being sufficient grounds for the arrest, does that have any potential consequences for the misguided prosecutor?

 

[churchmouse]

EXACTLY!

My guess is prosecutorial abuse. What's yours?

They folded under pressures that we are un-aware of. Also the prosecutor gets
some face time on TV. I felt that from her original press conference. JMHO but it seemed to be the case.

 

[Fargo]

I know I was using the fact that they were arrested and then found guilty in a civl trial as my example...sort of...you went in to deep...

And no offense to Fargo, but what does this

"Whoever wrote that article has no understanding of how that section of Florida law actually works and seems to have a serious axe to grind. The arrest is meaningless, rather it is a judicial determination of PC that matters. Whether that happens in a criminal or civil case is irrelevant."

have to do with what i said? Florida has really Jacked up work-around laws...I lived there for a long time, worked there, and saw alot of stupidity with civil trials....

Once again IT ISN'T the arrest that matters; it is the post-arrest judicial determination of PC that might matter. Such a determination could also be made in a civil case even where there wasn't an arrest.

Your claim that an arrest is necessary for a civil suit is simply not supported by the law you cited.

Do you really think that LE agencies determinations of PC are going to be binding upon the court? Do you really think that judges are going to let the cops determine PC for them? Cops can arrest if they believe they have PC, but it is always going to be reviewed by a judge. Conversely, the cops can not arrest a person but a judge in a civil suit could still find PC.

Joe