17 year old kid shot dead by Neighborhood Watch "Captain"

[Jake46184]

The media says that Zimmerman is being held without bond. I find that interesting in a 2nd degree murder case with a suspect who has no prior convictions and has shown no danger of being a flight risk. Indeed, he voluntarily turned himself in. Protection? That's not how the process works. If he is eligible for bail, he gets it. If he requests protection on the outside, it's the state's responsibility to consider the request and rule on it.

This case is such a travesty of justice. We haven't seen anything this bad since O.J.

 

[cobber]

I'd never pull a gun in a fist fight unless a weapon of some kind ends up in the mix.. other than that, only fists will be flying.



I'd rather be the dead tough guy, have more pride in myself.. if not, you'd probably end up like George Zimmerman.. a live chicken!

Hunh? It's quite possible to be killed by an unarmed person. What's the point of the 2nd Amendment if not to defend yourself. Certainly you wouldn't say that women, who are smaller stature than men, should take a beating rather than 'equalize' the encounter with the help of Sam Colt?

Getting killed is a choice I suppose, but why waive your natural right of self-defense?

 

[jbombelli]

I'd never pull a gun in a fist fight unless a weapon of some kind ends up in the mix.. other than that, only fists will be flying.



I'd rather be the dead tough guy, have more pride in myself.. if not, you'd probably end up like George Zimmerman.. a live chicken dealing with the criminal court!

Maybe. Maybe not. But I'll choose living over making my wife a widow and leaving my children without a father to care for and provide for them any day.

If that makes me a chicken**** so be it.

Pride in yourself? Dead tough guys don't feel pride in anything. They're dead.

 

[sepe]

A couple of things I saw in Chicago when I lived there:

I saw a guy get hit in the face by a homeless man he told to **** off. He fell down, hit his head on the pavement and died in the hospital.

I saw another guy get shoved down some subway stairs. His neck was broken. This was also in Chicago.

So good luck with that. Maybe you'll survive, maybe you won't. But I guess being a dead tough guy beats being a live chicken****, right?

Did you miss where I've said several times that I DO NOT go looking for trouble? You have a decent chance of getting shot with your own gun if you've not actually trained and have the mentality that will allow you to shoot. Unless you're ready or actively getting yourself ready for that situation, it would be best to totally avoid trouble. Your mind would be a much better weapon than your fists or even a firearm. Don't let it escalate (from reading the 911 transcripts, Zimmerman was pretty amped up prior to the confrontation so I'm guessing he didn't come off overly polite while trying to speak to Martin).

 

[Jake46184]

I weep for whoever tried to teach you reading comprehension or logic...

Read the appellate opinion, or have the nearest literate person read it to you as reading doesn't appear to be a strong suit.

Then, try to find someone with the patience to reduce it to words of less than two syllables for you.

Then get back to us.

Joe

Joe, Joe, Joe....you wouldn't last 2 minutes in a formal debate. Take a dose of maturity, leave the insults at the door, and come back to see us tomorrow. You hit rock-bottom several pages ago. Don't start digging a hole. We understand you're trying but it's getting humiliating for you. Please.......

 

[jbombelli]

Did you miss where I've said several times that I DO NOT go looking for trouble? You have a decent chance of getting shot with your own gun if you've not actually trained and have the mentality that will allow you to shoot. Unless you're ready or actively getting yourself ready for that situation, it would be best to totally avoid trouble. Your mind would be a much better weapon than your fists or even a firearm. Don't let it escalate (from reading the 911 transcripts, Zimmerman was pretty amped up prior to the confrontation so I'm guessing he didn't come off overly polite while trying to speak to Martin).

It doesn't always matter if you go looking for trouble or not. Sometimes it finds you anyway. Sometimes it finds you and there's nothing you can do about that.

But *I* have actually been around and know this first hand.

 

[Fargo]

Joe, Joe, Joe....you wouldn't last 2 minutes in a formal debate. Take a dose of maturity, leave the insults at the door, and come back to see us tomorrow. You hit rock-bottom several pages ago. Don't start digging a hole. We understand you're trying but it's getting humiliating for you. Please.......

Uh, yeah. So I trust you still haven't found anyone to read that opinion to you.

Too bad, I was really wanting to hear you relate how the Indiana Court of Appeal and Supreme Court are wrong.

G'luck, Mr. "Investigative Background".

 

[sepe]

It doesn't always matter if you go looking for trouble or not. Sometimes it finds you anyway. Sometimes it finds you and there's nothing you can do about that.

But *I* have actually been around and know this first hand.

You'd be pretty ignorant and arrogant to assume that because someone has differing views, they haven't been around or know anything.

 

[jbombelli]

You'd be pretty ignorant and arrogant to assume that because someone has differing views, they haven't been around or know anything.

You mean ignorant and arrogant like condescendingly telling me about how if I haven't trained my gun might get taken away and used against me? And ignorant and arrogant like telling me about how my mind is my best weapon, assuming I don't already know these things? Ignorant and arrogant in assuming I haven't spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours in training for just such a thing?

Ignorant and arrogant like that?

Have you ever seen anybody die because he got punched in the face?

Have you ever been shot at?

Have you ever had someone pull a knife on you, or try to hit you with a pool cue or a bar stool, or a broken bottle, or had someone kicking you with steel-toed boots? Have you ever *actually* had to defend yourself in real life? Please, tell me all about it. ALL of those things have happened to me.

Please, Mr. Tough Guy. Tell me how you'll defend yourself when someone knocks you down and starts kicking you with steel-toed boots. I'm curious to know. NO magic Bruce Lee stuff where you're the toughest guy around, A #1 Duke of New York. No "I would have seen it coming" because that's not guaranteed.

What would you do if you're already knocked down and someone's kicking you in the head.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

Hunh? It's quite possible to be killed by an unarmed person. What's the point of the 2nd Amendment if not to defend yourself. Certainly you wouldn't say that women, who are smaller stature than men, should take a beating rather than 'equalize' the encounter with the help of Sam Colt?

Getting killed is a choice I suppose, but why waive your natural right of self-defense?

I'm speaking for myself, not women.. totally different scenario, obviously.

 

[sepe]

You mean ignorant and arrogant like condescendingly telling me about how if I haven't trained my gun might get taken away and used against me? And ignorant and arrogant like telling me about how my mind is my best weapon, assuming I don't already know these things? Ignorant and arrogant in assuming I haven't spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours on training for just such a thing?

Ignorant and arrogant like that?

Was I specifically mentioned your name? Pretty arrogant to believe that I was speaking only to you. I was speaking with a generic you, as I have with several posts prior to you jumping in. Good for you for knowing and having been trained. Not everyone talking about how they'd be using their weapon in this situation have trained properly. Not everything is about you even when it is a response to something you've said.

 

[Jake46184]

Uh, yeah. So I trust you still haven't found anyone to read that opinion to you.

Too bad, I was really wanting to hear you relate how the Indiana Court of Appeal and Supreme Court are wrong.

G'luck, Mr. "Investigative Background".

We're not sure what you're rambling about, Fargo. I've looked back through this thread and you've been fighting with about 5 different people. Is there a problem tonight? Have you been drinking?

I am very close to someone who works as a defense attorney in Indianapolis. He's rather well-known and used to be involved in a lot of murder cases back in his day. Indiana does indeed have the possibility of a jury considering a lesser charge. It happens all the time. I can't say for sure that Florida is the same but I suspect they are. We're not sure what you claim to have provided but it's obviously not relevant. I know you want to seem knowledgeable but, after a point, all you seem is foolish.

You have 1 too many and suddenly you're fighting with everyone on an Internet forum. It happens. This might be a good time to bail out of this one and we'll see you tomorrow.

ETA: With any luck, you just saw the discussion of this topic on Fox (Greta Van Whatever...) Almost word for word, they explained why the prosecutor went for 2nd degree murder in the same words I used to explain it a few pages ago in this thread.

 

[jbombelli]

Was I specifically mentioned your name? Pretty arrogant to believe that I was speaking only to you. I was speaking with a generic you, as I have with several posts prior to you jumping in. Good for you for knowing and having been trained. Not everyone talking about how they'd be using their weapon in this situation have trained properly. Not everything is about you even when it is a response to something you've said.

So you quote me and were talking to somebody else? LOL. Sure. THAT'S how it works.

Here's a hint for you, since you seem to need one: That angle works better when you don't quote somebody.

And with that, you're dismissed. Be off with you, Mr. Tough Guy. Hopefully your pride in yourself won't plant you in the ground one of these days.

 

[Fargo]

We're not sure what you're rambling about, We're not sure what you claim to have provided but it's obviously not relevant. I know you want to seem knowledgeable but, after a point, all you seem is foolish.

I've provided nothing but a link to a published opinion. It is the appellate courts that have described how a prosecutor can prevent a jury from getting an instruction on factually lesser includeds, like manslaughter is to murder, by means of charging instrument. Specifically, by leaving any reference to battery out of a murder charging, the jury cannot be given a manslaughter instruction even if there is a serious evidentiary dispute.

Once you can tell me what all the above terms mean, we will talk. Until then enjoy what you seem to think is your expertise based upon your "investigative experience" and "lawyer friends". Obviously those give you the same qualifications as a criminal trial lawyer...

 

[CarmelHP]

Learn to understand what you read. Taking a beating doesn't mean to sit back and not fight back. I've already stated what I meant and that is I'm not going to shoot you because I lost a fist fight. If you want it to escalate with weapons, we can do that.

Anyone who has been in as many fights as you claim went looking for trouble.

 

[sepe]

So you quote me and were talking to somebody else? LOL. Sure. THAT'S how it works.

Here's a hint for you, since you seem to need one: That angle works better when you don't quote somebody.

And with that, you're dismissed. Be off with you, Mr. Tough Guy. Hopefully your pride in yourself won't plant you in the ground one of these days.

Hopefully you learn how to understand words that you read. If you did, you'd realize that nobody was ever talking about being a tough guy except you. I was going to go back and answer your questions that you'd edited into a previous reply but as with a previous opinion, you're not worth the time or effort.

 

[cobber]

I'm speaking for myself, not women.. totally different scenario, obviously.

I don't know. There aren't men's and women's rights to self-defense. I would say if there's a physical disparity and you're not prevailing, you're entitled to escalate. Reasonably.

The other guy could've stopped the fight when he was winning, but he didn't.

The point isn't to win, but to terminate the threat.



Anyway, seems like 90% of the posts now are verbal dueling, barely relevant to the Trayvon-Zimmerman case...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Anyway, seems like 90% of the posts now are verbal dueling, barely relevant to the Trayvon-Zimmerman case...

No, they are not!

 

[sepe]

Anyone who has been in as many fights as you claim went looking for trouble.

There are plenty of situations you can find trouble without looking. Living around ignorant racists and having friends of color can end with punches being thrown and there wasn't any way I'd let a friend get jumped because of the color of his skin. Protecting females from being beaten/abused isn't what I'd call looking for trouble (I didn't go looking for the person as it has happened several times in front of me). There are some things that I won't let happen. The closest to looking for trouble has been having idiots as friends and being places where alcohol is consumed.

 

[Fargo]

No, they are not!

Yes they are! Dammit!