10 Dead In Colorado Theater Shooting

[Dirtebiker]

It was NOT an AK but an AR-15.

:[/COLOR]

How do you know?

 

[dukeboy_318]

How do you know?

AP QUOTE:

"Holmes was apprehended within minutes of the 12:39 a.m. shooting at his car behind the theater, where police found him in full riot gear and carrying three weapons, including a AR-15 assault rifle, which can hold upwards of 100 rounds, a Remington 12 gauge shot gun, and a .40 Glock handgun. A fourth handgun was found in the vehicle."

 

[netsecurity]

I'm not a combat vet but I think I have trained well in preparation for active shooters but I could always train more. Even with my mindset and good shooting skills I cannot sit here and tell you that I could have taken him out or even made the situation better. Sometimes the only move is to remove yourself from an unwinable situation without getting yourself or others killed.

Maneuvering is part of training. Not that I've had any of that training, but I have studied combat maneuvering quite a bit, since I think it is the most important part of any battle.

I would try to maneuver to the side or rear of the assailant and unload my weapon on him, if possible. Bullet proof vest or not, I assume he would go down. I'm not saying I could've done that within a minute and a half, in a dark theater with OC gas in my face, but I think it certainly would have been possible.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Sometimes the only move is to remove yourself from an unwinable situation without getting yourself or others killed.

Or, if you can reach out and touch the guy whose is slaughtering those around you, go for the clinch and drag him down for the pound.

The survivors are all over the media talking about how this guy simply walked about in the theatre with no one doing anything other than yelling and bleeding. Perhaps it is not their fault as they are conditioned by movies or television but even my nephews know what to do when someone is within arms reach with a firearm.

 

[Excalibur]

I'm not a combat vet but I think I have trained well in preparation for active shooters but I could always train more. Even with my mindset and good shooting skills I cannot sit here and tell you that I could have taken him out or even made the situation better. Sometimes the only move is to remove yourself from an unwinable situation without getting yourself or others killed.

I agree with that. That's why each of us who are responsible armed citizens should practice often, save money to go to the range to improve our skills. It costs 10 bucks at my local range and about 11-13 for a box of ammo, that's the cost of an expensive dinner for some, others, it's lunch. Take classes and get better. You can never get enough training. I know I haven't gotten enough.

I hope to God that I never have to shoot a man, but if the day comes, I don't want to miss and be a liability.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I contacted them last year about their policy. They informed me that the policy worked for them, and that there has never been a mass shooting at any of their theaters. I explained that there was a first for everything. Columbine and VA Tech also didn't have any mass shootings... until they did.

Turns out, I was right. I contacted them again today. I actually got to talk to a person over the phone last time, so hopefully I can do that again. I hope they consider changing their policy.

 

[Denny347]

This guy was well-protected, but not invincible. Even a pistol round would be lethal if one could get in a decent position to take a shot, or get him to the ground. Obviously the amount CS gas deployed will affect how much it hampers one's ability to do anything. When you breathe CS gas it feels like glass shards inside your throat, and will cause a burning sensation to any exposed skin. However, if the CS attack was relatively light, then one can still function in it. I've seen a Marine take his blouse and undershirt off and do pushups and jumping jacks in the gas chamber just to be a jackass.

Additionally, a gas mask is cumbersome, it's easy to lose peripheral vision, and you tire out quickly if you exert energy because you can't get oxygen as fast as you would without a mask in normal air.

None of this guarantees success against an attack of this nature, however this POS was not T-1000 in there.

I've been CSed in training so I am well aware of the effects. You can certainly fight though it...if you know what to expect. I doubt ANY of the movie goers are familiar with the effects...all they know is that they are choking. Even a light dose of CS will panic the unprepared. Sure, a single pistol round would have ended this, however, getting one or more rounds into the correct spot is the problem. Best chance is a contact shot but that opportunity would be more luck than anything else. A person/officer standing in the rear of the theater armed with a patrol rifle at the time of the gunshots would have had a difficult time engaging the suspect. Tactics and environment were in the suspects favor.

 

[Sylvain]

Or, if you can reach out and touch the guy whose is slaughtering those around you, go for the clinch and drag him down for the pound.

The survivors are all over the media talking about how this guy simply walked about in the theatre with no one doing anything other than yelling and bleeding. Perhaps it is not their fault as they are conditioned by movies or television but even my nephews know what to do when someone is within arms reach with a firearm.

Even no matter how much armor he had on you can still put him to the ground, break legs and neck if the person is right next to you.
Even easier with the weight of the armor to take the person down to the ground.
Not to mention using a knife that could go in between the piece of armor or even thru the armor.

I cant believe none of the adults there had even a pocket knife.
They probably all had a cellphone to call 911 though, that shows their priorities.

 

[CPT Nervous]

good time to buy an FN 5.7

ESAPI still beats it. No good...

 

[Dirtebiker]

AP QUOTE:

"Holmes was apprehended within minutes of the 12:39 a.m. shooting at his car behind the theater, where police found him in full riot gear and carrying three weapons, including a AR-15 assault rifle, which can hold upwards of 100 rounds, a Remington 12 gauge shot gun, and a .40 Glock handgun. A fourth handgun was found in the vehicle."

I also heard that it was an AK, an AR, a "full auto" rifle! My point is none of us KNOW any of the "FACTS"! Only what we've heard and read! (and I barely trust anything I heard on the t.v. today!)

 

[Denny347]

I agree with that. That's why each of us who are responsible armed citizens should practice often, save money to go to the range to improve our skills. It costs 10 bucks at my local range and about 11-13 for a box of ammo, that's the cost of an expensive dinner for some, others, it's lunch. Take classes and get better. You can never get enough training. I know I haven't gotten enough.

I hope to God that I never have to shoot a man, but if the day comes, I don't want to miss and be a liability.

Get QUALITY training. Putting 50 holes in a paper target will not likely make you better. Get yourself to a class. 1 day, 2 day, or a week long class...anything is better than just shooting at a sterile range.

 

[gunowner930]

ESAPI still beats it. No good...

Did the shooter have esapi plates?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Even no matter how much armor he had on you can still put him to the ground, break legs and neck if the person is right next to you.

Three teenage boys from a nearby BJJ training hall could have stopped this. No guns needed.

While the gun nuts in us focus on the hardware, what is missing is the will to fight.

 

[Dirtebiker]

I've been CSed in training so I am well aware of the effects. You can certainly fight though it...if you know what to expect. I doubt ANY of the movie goers are familiar with the effects...all they know is that they are choking. Even a light dose of CS will panic the unprepared. Sure, a single pistol round would have ended this, however, getting one or more rounds into the correct spot is the problem. Best chance is a contact shot but that opportunity would be more luck than anything else. A person/officer standing in the rear of the theater armed with a patrol rifle at the time of the gunshots would have had a difficult time engaging the suspect. Tactics and environment were in the suspects favor.

You guys keep talking about CS, I saw interviews with several people who say they were in the theatre, and NONE of them mention not being able to breathe, or any other symptoms of any kind of gas!

 

[bwframe]

Or, if you can reach out and touch the guy whose is slaughtering those around you, go for the clinch and drag him down for the pound.

The survivors are all over the media talking about how this guy simply walked about in the theatre with no one doing anything other than yelling and bleeding. Perhaps it is not their fault as they are conditioned by movies or television but even my nephews know what to do when someone is within arms reach with a firearm.

Appropriately placed strikes with your light or cuts with your knife could quickly change circumstances a lot also. Vests, helmets and other protective stuff won't block everything.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I predict the CS gas storyline to be nonsense.

They needed an explanation for why someone was able to walk about a threatre at will without anyone fighting back so the CS storyline was developed.

 

[Denny347]

Or, if you can reach out and touch the guy whose is slaughtering those around you, go for the clinch and drag him down for the pound.

The survivors are all over the media talking about how this guy simply walked about in the theatre with no one doing anything other than yelling and bleeding. Perhaps it is not their fault as they are conditioned by movies or television but even my nephews know what to do when someone is within arms reach with a firearm.

Within arms reach means little in a black theater with gas deployed. Witnesses said he was only shooting those trying to leave. Since most people do not see movies alone, it would assume that most patrons were there with at least one family member or friend. Human nature would cause most humans to hunker down when taking gunfire. They do not want to risk drawing attention to themselves and family. It is against human nature to engage, that is a learned response. If you haven't "learned" it, you are not gonna do it.

 

[Sylvain]

I predict the CS gas storyline to be nonsense.

They needed an explanation for why someone was able to walk about a threatre at will without anyone fighting back so the CS storyline was developed.

Not sure why he had a gaz mask then if it was only smoke grenades.
Maybe it was just part of the "character", or maybe it was in case the police used actual gaz on him.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Appropriately placed strikes with your light or cuts with your knife could quickly change circumstances a lot also.

Yes, that's why I said earlier that taking him down and getting a knife into his neck or groin is a proper response. But they didn't need a knife or a gun, they needed the will to fight. They didn't have it. This needs to change.

 

[Denny347]

I predict the CS gas storyline to be nonsense.

They needed an explanation for why someone was able to walk about a threatre at will without anyone fighting back so the CS storyline was developed.

Ooooookay...I heard that from a female in the theater interviewed this morning. Told the reporter it burned her eyes and choked her. Smoke smells funny but that is about it.