1 dead...police chase...Indy’s northwest side ends...officer-involved shooting

[DoggyDaddy]

Sorry to hear that.
OTOH, if someone sent me a PM that mentioned a judge or judges they didn't particularly like, I wouldn't share private conversations and could make up my own mind.
Kind of like the 9MM/45 or the Glock/1911 debates.

If only it were so simple (45 and 1911 - no doubt. )

 

[Sigblitz]

Dirt nap. Room temperature challenge. Really late term abortion.

That's down here.













https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...6-wrong-way-do-citizens-arrest-[georgia].html

 

[Fargo]

Sorry to hear that.
OTOH, if someone sent me a PM that mentioned a judge or judges they didn't particularly like, I wouldn't share private conversations and could make up my own mind.
Kind of like the 9MM/45 or the Glock/1911 debates.

Marion county used to do some sort of weird slating for judges until it was ruled unconstitutional a few years ago. I don’t know if they still have special rules up there or not as I don’t live there.

 

[Sigblitz]

If only it were so simple (45 and 1911 - no doubt. )

Beat me to it.

Don't tell CM.

 

[blackenedman]

If you are wanting to know why more serious offenders from major urban areas don’t get long periods of incarceration, IMO the first and foremost reason is that “we the people” are utterly unwilling to foot the tax bill and social costs of what that would look like. Warehousing huge numbers of human beings is incredibly expensive, especially when they usually come out harder than when they went in. Nevermind the rippling social costs.

I find the question of why we have so many people in need of warehousing to be much more interesting than question of how do we warehouse them all.

Remember, “we the people” elect the legislators who set the criminal penalties, taxes and budgets, the prosecutors who determine the charges brought, and the judges who determines the sentences.

The justice system we have is a reflection of our society. If you want to change the system, you need to change society. In my opinion, you do that first and foremost by how you interact with those around you and how you raise your kids.

Thanks for your reply. I guess, as I suspected, there is no answer. I understand all your comments, and agree. In that vein, if you're 19, already a convicted violent felon, and are killed in a shoot-out while attempting to ambush the police, I'm not sure how much harder you get.

The end result seems to be, as long as you live in an urban area, where a large part of the population will bend over backward to excuse violent predatory behavior, you're ****ed. You will be forced to live in a hyper-vigilant state, constantly prepared to defend your life, and your family.

I seem to have no problem with how my son is being raised, nor how I interact with the community in which I live. But I have no control over those who seem to be having trouble in both of those areas.

 

[blackenedman]

Seems like this is the story with everyone who ends up going down in a shootout with police. Always opportunity after opportunity to put them behind bars forever, wasted in the name of soft-on-crime social justice BS. This is just how things are now. You get all the chances in the world no matter how many violent crimes you commit.

Great point you make. My question then would move to, why do we want to be soft on crime? As mentioned several times, jail/prison is not a deterrent. Knowing that you might be shot in the commission of a crime, is not a deterrent. So, without the philosophical discussion, where do we go from here?

 

[Fargo]

Thanks for your reply. I guess, as I suspected, there is no answer. I understand all your comments, and agree. In that vein, if you're 19, already a convicted violent felon, and are killed in a shoot-out while attempting to ambush the police, I'm not sure how much harder you get.

The end result seems to be, as long as you live in an urban area, where a large part of the population will bend over backward to excuse violent predatory behavior, you're ****ed. You will be forced to live in a hyper-vigilant state, constantly prepared to defend your life, and your family.

I seem to have no problem with how my son is being raised, nor how I interact with the community in which I live. But I have no control over those who seem to be having trouble in both of those areas.

I don’t know that there has ever been a large urban area, they didn’t struggle with this problem to a significant degree. It is just inherent in having that many people/$ in one place that there are significant facets of society which will glorify criminality.

Having good government, law-enforcement, judges etc can mitigate that issue, but it will always be there.

Its part of why I prefer a more rural existence.

 

[Fargo]

Great point you make. My question then would move to, why do we want to be soft on crime? As mentioned several times, jail/prison is not a deterrent. Knowing that you might be shot in the commission of a crime, is not a deterrent. So, without the philosophical discussion, where do we go from here?

To get criminality to a point where society will pay to harshly punished those who deserve it, I really think you have to go back to raising children within an actual family structure.

 

[blackenedman]

I don’t know that there has ever been a large urban area, they didn’t struggle with this problem to a significant degree. It is just inherent in having that many people/$ in one place that there are significant facets of society which will glorify criminality.

Having good government, law-enforcement, judges etc can mitigate that issue, but it will always be there.

Its part of why I prefer a more rural existence.

I'd love to engage in that rural existence, unfortunately, it's just not in the cards at the moment. I guess I will always struggle with the idea of glorifying criminality. It seems to be one of those situations that only cuts one way. The family wants to glorify their criminal family member, while shouting from the roof-tops that the cops that gunned them down are criminals. "Live by the gun, die by the gun"? I just don't know, anymore...

 

[phylodog]

Great point you make. My question then would move to, why do we want to be soft on crime? As mentioned several times, jail/prison is not a deterrent. Knowing that you might be shot in the commission of a crime, is not a deterrent. So, without the philosophical discussion, where do we go from here?

End the war on drugs and set every non violent offender currently in prison free. No more time off for good behavior, no more workout facilities, no cable television or internet moving forward. Violent offenders will begin to be treated as such, there are plenty of ways of dealing with non violent criminals.

In one swoop we save billions by not housing non violent offenders and ending the war on drugs.
-Make prison something to fear again, especially for those who don't know how to read (the only entertainment allowed).
-No more free education above a HS diploma while in prison. I'm all for education, I'm all for good quality educational opportunities for those in prison but they should foot the bill. When they're released they can sign a promissory note and go back to prison if they don't pay.
-Allow for assisted suicide to anyone who will not get out before the age of 60 and doesn't want to do the time.

The kid gloves our society has been using on violent criminals are getting shoved down our throats. Time for them to come off and for there to be real consequences to criminal behavior, not rewards.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

End the war on drugs and set every non violent offender currently in prison free. No more time off for good behavior, no more workout facilities, no cable television or internet moving forward. Violent offenders will begin to be treated as such, there are plenty of ways of dealing with non violent criminals.

In one swoop we save billions by not housing non violent offenders and ending the war on drugs.
-Make prison something to fear again, especially for those who don't know how to read (the only entertainment allowed).
-No more free education above a HS diploma while in prison. I'm all for education, I'm all for good quality educational opportunities for those in prison but they should foot the bill. When they're released they can sign a promissory note and go back to prison if they don't pay.
-Allow for assisted suicide to anyone who will not get out before the age of 60 and doesn't want to do the time.

The kid gloves our society has been using on violent criminals are getting shoved down our throats. Time for them to come off and for there to be real consequences to criminal behavior, not rewards.

 

[d.kaufman]

Great point you make. My question then would move to, why do we want to be soft on crime? As mentioned several times, jail/prison is not a deterrent. Knowing that you might be shot in the commission of a crime, is not a deterrent. So, without the philosophical discussion, where do we go from here?

I'm all for public execution. Maybe if we hang a few or use a guillotine on a few, they may start to think twice.

Granted there would need to be "beyond a shadow of a doubt" but there's plenty of those cases to use as an example for those that may want to choose that lifestyle

 

[churchmouse]

I think he was a VINO (Veteran In Name Only).

My Nieces "X" is one of those. Kicked out of Marine basic yet wore his dress uniform when they got married. Pi$$ed me off. Then he got a Tattoo on his arm saying Marine for life. Total looser. Proved this out when he blew town and abandoned his 3 kids.

 

[blackenedman]

End the war on drugs and set every non violent offender currently in prison free. No more time off for good behavior, no more workout facilities, no cable television or internet moving forward. Violent offenders will begin to be treated as such, there are plenty of ways of dealing with non violent criminals.

In one swoop we save billions by not housing non violent offenders and ending the war on drugs.
-Make prison something to fear again, especially for those who don't know how to read (the only entertainment allowed).
-No more free education above a HS diploma while in prison. I'm all for education, I'm all for good quality educational opportunities for those in prison but they should foot the bill. When they're released they can sign a promissory note and go back to prison if they don't pay.
-Allow for assisted suicide to anyone who will not get out before the age of 60 and doesn't want to do the time.

The kid gloves our society has been using on violent criminals are getting shoved down our throats. Time for them to come off and for there to be real consequences to criminal behavior, not rewards.

You said a lot that goes thru my mind. Home detention for petty thieves, drunks, etc? Sure. Home detention for violent predatory criminals? No ****ing way.

I've had this discussion with more "liberal" minded people I know. They seem to believe that prison should be a chance at "rehabilitation". My stance is quite the opposite. Prison is supposed to be punitive. Hence, "penal" institution. As in, punish, or penalize. It seems many people in prison have a better life inside than they do outside.

People that are not fit to live in polite society should be locked up, until deemed to have the ability to re-enter polite society, or maybe forever. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but what I do see is, what we're doing isn't working. I'm not necessarily a death penalty advocate, but I don't currently have a better solution. We all saw Old Yellar, we know how it ended. Some people are irretrievably broken.

Stay safe, be well. Enjoy your rural existence, and make sure to update us with any more farm shenanigans....

 

[churchmouse]

End the war on drugs and set every non violent offender currently in prison free. No more time off for good behavior, no more workout facilities, no cable television or internet moving forward. Violent offenders will begin to be treated as such, there are plenty of ways of dealing with non violent criminals.

In one swoop we save billions by not housing non violent offenders and ending the war on drugs.
-Make prison something to fear again, especially for those who don't know how to read (the only entertainment allowed).
-No more free education above a HS diploma while in prison. I'm all for education, I'm all for good quality educational opportunities for those in prison but they should foot the bill. When they're released they can sign a promissory note and go back to prison if they don't pay.
-Allow for assisted suicide to anyone who will not get out before the age of 60 and doesn't want to do the time.

The kid gloves our society has been using on violent criminals are getting shoved down our throats. Time for them to come off and for there to be real consequences to criminal behavior, not rewards.

I have some well rounded theory's on how this has all come to be but best discussed in private.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

My Nieces "X" is one of those. Kicked out of Marine basic yet wore his dress uniform when they got married. Pi$$ed me off. Then he got a Tattoo on his arm saying Marine for life. Total looser. Proved this out when he blew town and abandoned his 3 kids.

 

[blackenedman]

I have some well rounded theory's on how this has all come to be but best discussed in private.

Based on your past, and mine, I'm sure we know some of the same people. I'd love to have a chance at a cheeseburger summit, sometime in the future, to discuss your theories and talk about common ground.

 

[Brad69]

I like phylodog’s idea!

I want a three tier system.

Tier I - Small time crimes and young offenders less than 10 years.
Basically work camps that you work and learn a trade finish HS people that have a chance to recover.

Tier II - 10+ years but will be out before age 69
Rough place work gangs

Tier III - lifers and people that will not get out till age 70+
Bad

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I’m not so sure more of a biblical approach shouldn’t be revisited. You harm someone, you repay them. Depending on the nature of the crime, you repay them multiples of what you cost them. You commit a serious, violent felony, you die.

 

[MCgrease08]

If you are wanting to know why more serious offenders from major urban areas don’t get long periods of incarceration, IMO the first and foremost reason is that “we the people” are utterly unwilling to foot the tax bill and social costs of what that would look like. Warehousing huge numbers of human beings is incredibly expensive, especially when they usually come out harder than when they went in. Nevermind the rippling social costs.

I find the question of why we have so many people in need of warehousing to be much more interesting than question of how do we warehouse them all.

Remember, “we the people” elect the legislators who set the criminal penalties, taxes and budgets, the prosecutors who determine the charges brought, and the judges who determines the sentences.

The justice system we have is a reflection of our society. If you want to change the system, you need to change society. In my opinion, you do that first and foremost by how you interact with those around you and how you raise your kids.

We could teach kids the three relatively simples things they can do do rise out of poverty, but you get more street cred by having kids with multiple baby mommas and playing gangsta.

Three Simple Rules Poor Teens Should Follow to Join the Middle Class