“Welfare Check” Leaves Woman Dead

[j706]

Having just spent 10 hours on a jury, I'm very fact-focused right now.

An earlier post mentioned a gun. Neither the news report or Will Grigg's blog entry mentioned a gun that I can see/hear.

The news report stated "she threatened them with a weapon".

Was the gun stated, and I missed it, or was it deduced from the facts that A, "she threatened them with a weapon" and, B, she was shot to death?

If she had a gun, there is a threat of grievous bodily injury to the officers. If she had a frying pan, this is not likely to be the case, though the facts are quite slim.

One thing that does strike me, however, is that the SWAT team was called out. If an officer is making a welfare check, does he not go to the doors windows of the address at which he is making the check (i.e. he is close enough to see any visual evidence of an immediate threat)? If so, and she made the threat while the officer was in close proximity, why didn't the first officer shoot her?

There may be a good reason, but if she wasn't an imminent enough threat to the responding officer(s) that they draw on her, why was the situation escalated?

Based on the slim information to this point, especially the officer stating they wanted to get her "the help she needed", this is likely a case of someone with a mental illness. Anecdotally speaking, the police are very well trained to respond to criminal behavior, but not at all well trained to respond to situations in which there is a medical or psychological issue at play. I understand that they have to respond to the stimulus presented in the moment and they are not trained doctors or psychologists. However, I think tragic outcomes such as this could be avoided if police were given training ( I know, more tax dollars ) to better identify the "abnormal" cases and back off a step (if the danger is not imminent) and call in those with the training to try to de-escalate the situation.

Maybe they tried it in this case, maybe they didn't. The facts as presented are simply too thin to know.

I will say that the increased propensity for local police forces across this nation to resort to their para-military forces over what seem to be lesser and lesser threats is an undeniably disturbing trend. This may or may not be another case in point. Only time will tell.

Required in service training for Indiana LEO's includes dealing with persons with mental problems-every single year.

 

[j706]

JOC, do you know what a welfare check is, and all the various circumstances that can warrant one?

We have always called them 24 hour holds. Not sure why. This is one of our more common calls and I hate them. They are usually called in by a family member. They are often correct in calling. We typically have the RP fill out the PC form. There have been times I felt the person was not like the RP said they were and I refused to do a committal. But of course one must be very careful as these things are not to be taken lightly. You do nothing and they kill themselves later and or someone else, well you know what could happen. I hate these calls!!! Link below;

Indiana Code 12-26-5

 

[smoking357]

Oh but if you fail to follow the law and do not wear your seat belt..and you get killed it costs all of us money.

Do know that the "all of us" grouping is socialistic, communistic or otherwise leftist.

 

[kevinj110]

Either way no matter waht happend in this story it is sad. Sad that trained "tactical" agents could not find a better way to detain (nuetralize) the threat.
Also, I am sick of this might be a danger to themselves thing. Call me sick, but like alot of other things if it really only hurts me who are you to tell me I can or cannot.

 

[BloodEclipse]

UPDATE:

Prairie Village police name woman shot dead by police




Prairie Village police on Thursday identified a woman shot dead by police during a Wednesday morning disturbance.
The woman was Susan L. Stuckey, 47, and the investigation into the shooting continues, police said.
Stuckey made suicidal and threatening comments before police went to her home about 7 a.m. Wednesday in the Kenilworth Apartment Homes in the 4300 block of West 93rd Terrace, police said.
She refused to open her door, barricaded it and continued to make threats, and about 9:45 a.m. a tactical response team entered and tried to take her is custody for a mental evaluation, they said.
Police fatally shot the woman after she threatened officers with a weapon and at least one stun gun fired by police failed to stop her, they said.
Police have not said what kind of weapon was used.


Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/04/01/1850388/prairie-village-police-name-woman.html#ixzz0jv0ZU9u7

I guess she didn't have to commit suicide after all.
I wonder what the threatening statements were? "Don't come in my house or........:" ??????

 

[E5RANGER375]

wow, must have been a strong 47 yr old woman to beat the taser?? when i was tased in training to get my taser international cert, it stopped me and im not a small guy.

seems youd try to use more tasers or non lethal rounds and already have them ready if you were responding to a attempted suicide call?? weird.

 

[Mokkie]

UPDATE:

Prairie Village police name woman shot dead by police




Prairie Village police on Thursday identified a woman shot dead by police during a Wednesday morning disturbance.
The woman was Susan L. Stuckey, 47, and the investigation into the shooting continues, police said.
Stuckey made suicidal and threatening comments before police went to her home about 7 a.m. Wednesday in the Kenilworth Apartment Homes in the 4300 block of West 93rd Terrace, police said.
She refused to open her door, barricaded it and continued to make threats, and about 9:45 a.m. a tactical response team entered and tried to take her is custody for a mental evaluation, they said.
Police fatally shot the woman after she threatened officers with a weapon and at least one stun gun fired by police failed to stop her, they said.
Police have not said what kind of weapon was used.


Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/04/01/1850388/prairie-village-police-name-woman.html#ixzz0jv0ZU9u7

I guess she didn't have to commit suicide after all.
I wonder what the threatening statements were? "Don't come in my house or........:" ??????

Very sad story. I guess the cheese slipped off her cracker. But the police had to do what they had to. Glad no one else got hurt. A person like this could have taken out a lot of people.

 

[level.eleven]

Very sad story. I guess the cheese slipped off her cracker. But the police had to do what they had to.

You make it sound like she was Old Yeller.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Today we have a heart warming story of courage and mercy.
Police arrived to the scene of a woman who was suicidal. She was in much mental pain and anguish.
Even though she was threatening to kill herself, she just couldn't do it.
It's a good thing that the police came to help her this day.
After intense negotiations, police encouraged her to pick up a baseball bat.
Once she had the bat firmly in her hands, the compassionate officers moved quickly. After busting in her door a taser was fired, intentionally missing her.
A courageous officer stepped forward to provide the agony relieving shot. As she slumped to the floor they could see her mouth her last words, "thank you".
For his selfless act the officer has been put on a paid vacation err suspension. Knowing the public would not understand the wonderful gift this officer gave the pained woman, no mention will be released publicly of the bonus and promotion he will receive.

 

[Mokkie]

You make it sound like she was Old Yeller.

Sorry I came across that way. I really think that she got what she had coming to her. You dont threaten a officer of the law. Period. The officers done what had to be done. I'm just saying it is sad that she didnt get proper care before this happened. As far as old yeller goes I still sometimes get a tear at the end of the show. I guess I am old softy at heart. I just have a hard time getting my point across when dealing with things in real life. But be assured dealing with real life I always try to do the right thing. May think things are sad. But still right is right and wrong is wrong.

 

[JBusch8899]

Don't confuse my response as defending the police in this matter, however, I believe the link takes some liberties with facts not presented within the TV news report.

Additionally, there are any number of reasons why police might insist upon a welfare check, such as a mental hygiene response; particularly if the person has a history of same, or a request from a mental health, or other health care provider.

 

[schafe]

Oh but if you fail to follow the law and do not wear your seat belt..and you get killed it costs all of us money.

I've always had a problem with this line of reasoning. The "cost to society" which is always referenced is really "our insurance premiums and taxes are higher" My response to anyone using this argument is.... I'll bet I cand find a behavior in the things you do that are a "cost to society" because everyone does something dangerous. Hell, getting out of the bathtub is dangerous, and the resulting accidents are a terrible "cost to society" I know, let's ban bathtubs! Yeah, that'll work!!

 

[XMil]

I've always had a problem with this line of reasoning. The "cost to society" which is always referenced is really "our insurance premiums and taxes are higher" My response to anyone using this argument is.... I'll bet I cand find a behavior in the things you do that are a "cost to society" because everyone does something dangerous. Hell, getting out of the bathtub is dangerous, and the resulting accidents are a terrible "cost to society" I know, let's ban bathtubs! Yeah, that'll work!!

Amen. It is an argument often used by those too ignorant or unwilling to think it through, or those who just love nanny state government. Why not just require helmets in cars and limit all speed limits to 30mph? That would virtually eliminate all deaths in auto accidents.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I've always had a problem with this line of reasoning. The "cost to society" which is always referenced is really "our insurance premiums and taxes are higher" My response to anyone using this argument is.... I'll bet I cand find a behavior in the things you do that are a "cost to society" because everyone does something dangerous. Hell, getting out of the bathtub is dangerous, and the resulting accidents are a terrible "cost to society" I know, let's ban bathtubs! Yeah, that'll work!!

well put. hey heres something that police (civil servants paid by tax dollars) do that waste OUR money: LEAVE THEIR CARS RUNNING!!!! for HOURS (yes hours, ive seen it more thn once firsthand at a GAS STATION! it was 1.6 hours to be exact.) also allowing police to take the cars home is a waste of OUR money too. some argue that its part of their salary, but id rather pay them a lump sum addition to their check, that i KNOW will stay the same, rather than have a variable like wear n tear or fluctuating gas cost. Park the cars at the station, and drive your own cars off duty. some cops do it on their own, . id like to see that bill introduced by the city council. they claim it staves off crime, BS. armed citizens prevents crime!!

 

[smoking357]

You dont threaten a officer of the law. Period.

Your teeth scratched the sole of my shoe! You need to respect and obey the police. Period! Blam! Blam! Blam!

This pro-authority leftist movement that has come to dominate the Republican Party has made the party quite unappealing.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Originally Posted by Mokkie
You dont threaten a officer of the law. Period.

REALY??

sorry i disagree. theres more ways to threaten and follow through than just violence

 

[j706]

I've always had a problem with this line of reasoning. The "cost to society" which is always referenced is really "our insurance premiums and taxes are higher" My response to anyone using this argument is.... I'll bet I cand find a behavior in the things you do that are a "cost to society" because everyone does something dangerous. Hell, getting out of the bathtub is dangerous, and the resulting accidents are a terrible "cost to society" I know, let's ban bathtubs! Yeah, that'll work!!

I didn't pass the law. I have mixed feelings on it myself. But...it is in fact the law. If you disagree with it try to get it repealed. I wear mine at all times. Always have even before it became law. I have been to more wrecks than I care to remember where people have been ejected from vehicles that were involved in very survivable crashes. If you don't want to wear one,don't,it makes no difference to me.

 

[E5RANGER375]

i always wear mine in the states, but the law is unconstitutional. just like smoking bans. i dont smoke, but i still support smokers rights.

 

[j706]

well put. hey heres something that police (civil servants paid by tax dollars) do that waste OUR money: LEAVE THEIR CARS RUNNING!!!! for HOURS (yes hours, ive seen it more thn once firsthand at a GAS STATION! it was 1.6 hours to be exact.) also allowing police to take the cars home is a waste of OUR money too. some argue that its part of their salary, but id rather pay them a lump sum addition to their check, that i KNOW will stay the same, rather than have a variable like wear n tear or fluctuating gas cost. Park the cars at the station, and drive your own cars off duty. some cops do it on their own, . id like to see that bill introduced by the city council. they claim it staves off crime, BS. armed citizens prevents crime!!

I wonder where you get your information from. Actually take home cares save money. It has been proven time and time again. That is why so many agency's country wide issue them. Interested in the subject,research it. You will really be annoyed at me. I work for two departments and actually have two take home cars. Doesn't that just suck? Matter of fact I sold my own truck and I don't even own my own vehicle now.

As for vehicles being left running,depending on the setup of the car,some police cars need to remain running due to all the electronics in them. Both of mine are setup so they can be shut down for up to one hour with all the equipment still powered on. For what it is worth,each hour of idle equals 33 miles of driving. At idle you get ZERO miles per gallon. I try not to leave mine running. Now there do you like me now?

 

[j706]

i always wear mine in the states, but the law is unconstitutional. just like smoking bans. i dont smoke, but i still support smokers rights.

I am an idiot. I have never stopped smoking since I started during my days at Harmony Church. I need to work on that.