“Welfare Check” Leaves Woman Dead

[EvilleDoug]

She was 47 years old and living in a community that required "welfare checks". She, IMHO more than likely had some other issues and was there as a Government round up of all non-desirables.

I'm guessing there will be a SOP change immediately, (Shoot Then knock and ask how they're doing)

No Bacon for the shooter, and Administrative Leave should be a whole lot more than that.

 

[j706]

I am willing to bet that most of the negative posters on here would be the first to criticize the police if they had done nothing and the woman ended up killing someone. The woman was obviously a nut job. I don't know the details but it sounds like this was a prolonged incident and not a knock on the door and shooting. When LE is sent on runs like this, they have to be followed through. Sometimes they turn out ugly. Unstable people do crazy stuff.

 

[j706]

i wonder if it made them feel like men to shoot grandma??

That is a totally out of line statement and uncalled for.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I don't know the details but it sounds like this was a prolonged incident and not a knock on the door and shooting.

I agree, that's the problem. We don't know what happened yet so maintain fire discipline.

Let's stay tuned and see what shakes out.

 

[E5RANGER375]

That is a totally out of line statement and uncalled for.

no its not. remember the cops in New Orleans that beat up a 80 yr old grandma ON FILM??? i do. she didnt even threaten them. I bet they felt like men too for giving her a black eye, and tackling her in her own SAFE home. Anytime the cops say there doing something to protect you, they realy mean to say they are doing it to protect themselves.
your probly a cop. oh sorry i must have hurt your feelings. NO IM NOT SORRY. i didnt say it was ALL cops. but your quick deffense of them makes me wonder

 

[mrjarrell]

no its not. remember the cops in New Orleans that beat up a 80 yr old grandma ON FILM??? i do. she didnt even threaten them. I bet they felt like men too for giving her a black eye, and tackling her in her own SAFE home. Anytime the cops say there doing something to protect you, they realy mean to say they are doing it to protect themselves.
your probly a cop. oh sorry i must have hurt your feelings. NO IM NOT SORRY. i didnt say it was ALL cops. but your quick deffense of them makes me wonder

Don't bother with that minor incident. Remember the cops who murdered two innocent people on a bridge and had the help of their buddies covering it up. More of that, as well as victim disarmament happened in NOLA. Of course it doesn't make the news anywhere but overseas and in New Orleans.

 

[smoking357]

I am willing to bet that most of the negative posters on here would be the first to criticize the police if they had done nothing and the woman ended up killing someone.

Nah. The posters on here have, pretty much, given correct responses. I'm durn pleased with what I've seen written. It gives me hope that some parts of America still care about Liberty.

 

[smoking357]

no its not. remember the cops in New Orleans that beat up a 80 yr old grandma ON FILM??? i do. she didnt even threaten them. I bet they felt like men too for giving her a black eye, and tackling her in her own SAFE home. Anytime the cops say there doing something to protect you, they realy mean to say they are doing it to protect themselves.
your probly a cop. oh sorry i must have hurt your feelings. NO IM NOT SORRY. i didnt say it was ALL cops. but your quick deffense of them makes me wonder

Don't forget the 92 year old lady in Atlanta who the cops smoked because they had the wrong address then tried to cover it up.

 

[j706]

no its not. remember the cops in New Orleans that beat up a 80 yr old grandma ON FILM??? i do. she didnt even threaten them. I bet they felt like men too for giving her a black eye, and tackling her in her own SAFE home. Anytime the cops say there doing something to protect you, they realy mean to say they are doing it to protect themselves.
your probly a cop. oh sorry i must have hurt your feelings. NO IM NOT SORRY. i didnt say it was ALL cops. but your quick deffense of them makes me wonder

Hurt feelings? Not our your best day my friend. After all I served side by side with the likes of Littrel and other names that you should know about-right? I generally consider the source of any internet comment before I would even consider taking offense. Many internet people and things are not really like some posters want people to think they are. It appears to me that a large amount of your 1000+ posts in less than two months time are anti police,anti authority and anti government. But who am I to question that? Just saying. Even with all of our country's faults,there is none better.

One would hope that a person who makes so many references to that tab/scroll would also take the time and pride to use spell check in their posts. I am one of the worlds worst at grammar and spelling but sheeeesh man right click those red underlined words. A whole lot of people read this stuff.

Peace.

 

[serpicostraight]

Not our your best day my friend. was that on purpose j706? lol the english police are watching knock off that wrong spelling. lol

 

[E5RANGER375]

Hurt feelings? Not our your best day my friend. After all I served side by side with the likes of Littrel and other names that you should know about-right? I generally consider the source of any internet comment before I would even consider taking offense. Many internet people and things are not really like some posters want people to think they are. It appears to me that a large amount of your 1000+ posts in less than two months time are anti police,anti authority and anti government. But who am I to question that? Just saying. Even with all of our country's faults,there is none better.

One would hope that a person who makes so many references to that tab/scroll would also take the time and pride to use spell check in their posts. I am one of the worlds worst at grammar and spelling but sheeeesh man right click those red underlined words. A whole lot of people read this stuff.

Peace.

once again all you critics bring up is spelling errors. im not writing a book here, i dont give a crap about the darn spelling. you suggesting it makes me any less of a Ranger for spelling words incorrectly, just shows your flawed mindset. Im not anti authority when the authority follows the rules. im not anti government when the govt respects and follows the constitution. im not anti police when the police do the job they are paid to do and dont overstep their bounds and violate peoples rights or beat them or murder them for NO reason, I SUPPORT GOOD POLICE OFFICERS!!! and im all for rewarding the ones who DO THEIR JOB the RIGHT way with better pay. NOTICE i didnt say I would reward the police chief and police establishments YES MEN!! the establishment and the police that are yes men are the problem!
And man you dont have to tell me theres NO BETTER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAN AMERICA!!! i still get tears in my eyes when im at a ball game and the national anthem plays and i look at that flag. the day i dont is the day theres BIG problems with America, the problems we have now are big but we can fix them if we buck up and stick together and VOTE the RIGHT people in office.
Also, if i have 1000 plus, post in 2 months then imagine how many i will have in 2 years. What was your comment about my length on ths site for??? are you trying to say that because i didnt know about this site before 2 months ago that somehow my opinions dont count??? am i less American than you because i havent been on INGO as long as you??
i can tell by your comments EXACTLY what type of person you are. your dont review ALL of the facts before you make your decision, hhmmmmm maybe kinda like in your mind the citizens you come across everyday are guilty until proven innocent??? WELL ITS THE OTHER WAY AROUND!! and that kind of thinking is why people dispise police as a whole, until an individual officer shows he cares. the bad ruin it for the good, because all we see is a badge and a military hair cut and immediately think of the bad ones weve encountered.
So im NOT anti-govt, Im NOT anti-police, Im NOT anti-authority.

Im ANTI-DOOSH BAG, Im Anti-Socialism, Im anti-Tyrant. is there anything wrong with that????

 

[INGunGuy]

I am willing to bet that most of the negative posters on here would be the first to criticize the police if they had done nothing and the woman ended up killing someone. The woman was obviously a nut job. I don't know the details but it sounds like this was a prolonged incident and not a knock on the door and shooting. When LE is sent on runs like this, they have to be followed through. Sometimes they turn out ugly. Unstable people do crazy stuff.

The last time I checked, the police cant arrest you because "you may do something" Hmmm if that were the case, then everyone would be under arrest because anyone can do anything they want. Should the police go in guns blazing, no, should they perform welfare checks, yea sure, but how about this, lets say your aunt calls you every week on Friday at 9PM like clockwork, and this has been going on for years. Well, Friday comes and goes, and there is no call. Well if you are close, you can always go and check up yourself to see what is going on. If you arent, but since you talk so frequently, there should be someone you could call who lives close, or a good friendly neighbor, anyone to perform the check. Then if you have exhausted all other avenues, there are no neighbors, she was a miser who never went outside. There are no other family members close, she chose to move away, and she never talks about friends or things that she does, then I guess at that time call the police. Let them know what is going on. Now lets say that since she has no family or friends, and the only thing that you can count on are her to call you every Friday at 9PM when the police come to do the welfare check, without opening the door, she yells thru the door she is fine and to go away. At that point she walks away from the door to do whatever. Now should the police just let it go at that and leave, well honestly, yea someone answered, said to go away, that was that. But the problem is that is NOT what is going to happen, the police are going to escalate the situation to the point where someone is hurt or killed. But dont dare tell the cops to go away, because they will come back with lots of their friends, and then you have become the "enemy combatant" and must be eliminated.

I am sorry to rant, and I hope you dont think I was kicking you in the nads, because everyone has the right to their own opinion.

So, since then the police have no duty to protect the public as was ruled by SCOTUS. Then why **** and moan at the police for not arresting her before she committed a crime, well, because she hadnt committed a crime. Period! I mean if someone has not broken any laws, how come they should be arrested. If a person is sitting in a pile of their own feces, drinking a cup of their own urine, and slicing themselves with a razor, sure help them out, but dont go in and kill them because they wont drop the razor. So the cops do what the person wanted done, they end up dead. What do they call that suicide by cop I think. Oh well just my own thoughts...

INGunGUy

 

[E5RANGER375]

hmm kinda like if i wanna not wear my seat belt and fly through my own windshield and die, i should be allowed to!! but no you have big money insurance companies that paid off our politicians to vote for a seat belt law. and now every happy go lucky cop uses it as a tool to pull you over and try to harrass you and trick you into letting them search your car. its a never ending spiral into the pit of dispare

 

[Lex Concord]

Having just spent 10 hours on a jury, I'm very fact-focused right now.

An earlier post mentioned a gun. Neither the news report or Will Grigg's blog entry mentioned a gun that I can see/hear.

The news report stated "she threatened them with a weapon".

Was the gun stated, and I missed it, or was it deduced from the facts that A, "she threatened them with a weapon" and, B, she was shot to death?

If she had a gun, there is a threat of grievous bodily injury to the officers. If she had a frying pan, this is not likely to be the case, though the facts are quite slim.

One thing that does strike me, however, is that the SWAT team was called out. If an officer is making a welfare check, does he not go to the doors windows of the address at which he is making the check (i.e. he is close enough to see any visual evidence of an immediate threat)? If so, and she made the threat while the officer was in close proximity, why didn't the first officer shoot her?

There may be a good reason, but if she wasn't an imminent enough threat to the responding officer(s) that they draw on her, why was the situation escalated?

Based on the slim information to this point, especially the officer stating they wanted to get her "the help she needed", this is likely a case of someone with a mental illness. Anecdotally speaking, the police are very well trained to respond to criminal behavior, but not at all well trained to respond to situations in which there is a medical or psychological issue at play. I understand that they have to respond to the stimulus presented in the moment and they are not trained doctors or psychologists. However, I think tragic outcomes such as this could be avoided if police were given training ( I know, more tax dollars ) to better identify the "abnormal" cases and back off a step (if the danger is not imminent) and call in those with the training to try to de-escalate the situation.

Maybe they tried it in this case, maybe they didn't. The facts as presented are simply too thin to know.

I will say that the increased propensity for local police forces across this nation to resort to their para-military forces over what seem to be lesser and lesser threats is an undeniably disturbing trend. This may or may not be another case in point. Only time will tell.

 

[dross]

After watching that 57 second video and learning absolutely nothing except that there's a dead woman, I've come to a couple of ironclad conclusions:

A team of jackbooted thugs bent on oppression of the citizenry and all that is holy encountered a crazed militia-woman who probably bakes a mean cookie, and hands out those little rainbow-colored coconut candies - that only old people seem to know where to buy - to little children . A gunfight ensued. The elderly psychopath was put down by the JBTs, potentially saving the world from whatever she was doing or was going to do.

Violent and dangerous old crazy lady stopped by the JBT squad.

At least that's what I got out of those 57 seconds packed chock full of no information.

 

[j706]

The last time I checked, the police cant arrest you because "you may do something" Hmmm if that were the case, then everyone would be under arrest because anyone can do anything they want. Should the police go in guns blazing, no, should they perform welfare checks, yea sure, but how about this, lets say your aunt calls you every week on Friday at 9PM like clockwork, and this has been going on for years. Well, Friday comes and goes, and there is no call. Well if you are close, you can always go and check up yourself to see what is going on. If you arent, but since you talk so frequently, there should be someone you could call who lives close, or a good friendly neighbor, anyone to perform the check. Then if you have exhausted all other avenues, there are no neighbors, she was a miser who never went outside. There are no other family members close, she chose to move away, and she never talks about friends or things that she does, then I guess at that time call the police. Let them know what is going on. Now lets say that since she has no family or friends, and the only thing that you can count on are her to call you every Friday at 9PM when the police come to do the welfare check, without opening the door, she yells thru the door she is fine and to go away. At that point she walks away from the door to do whatever. Now should the police just let it go at that and leave, well honestly, yea someone answered, said to go away, that was that. But the problem is that is NOT what is going to happen, the police are going to escalate the situation to the point where someone is hurt or killed. But dont dare tell the cops to go away, because they will come back with lots of their friends, and then you have become the "enemy combatant" and must be eliminated.

I am sorry to rant, and I hope you dont think I was kicking you in the nads, because everyone has the right to their own opinion.

So, since then the police have no duty to protect the public as was ruled by SCOTUS. Then why **** and moan at the police for not arresting her before she committed a crime, well, because she hadnt committed a crime. Period! I mean if someone has not broken any laws, how come they should be arrested. If a person is sitting in a pile of their own feces, drinking a cup of their own urine, and slicing themselves with a razor, sure help them out, but dont go in and kill them because they wont drop the razor. So the cops do what the person wanted done, they end up dead. What do they call that suicide by cop I think. Oh well just my own thoughts...

INGunGUy

I believe the original call was more than likely a welfare check. From the sounds of it,the deceased had some mental issues. That is the purpose of a 24 hour committal. They are tricky calls where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. With a 24 hour committal a person is taken into custody. With or without their consent. It is not an arrest as it is not criminal. But if there is reasonable belief to believe the person is a danger to themselves or others they are going. The mental health professionals determine the mental state. A very common call I might add.

 

[j706]

Not our your best day my friend. was that on purpose j706? lol the english police are watching knock off that wrong spelling. lol

Whoops. I am sure glad someone invented spell check. I am terrible at it.

 

[mrjarrell]

My bet is that she didn't have a gun. Every report out there says "weapon". A couple of reports mention that she was seen with a bat. If it had been a gun the enforcers would have been crowing it from the rooftops. There are reports that she was tasered, too.

 

[j706]

hmm kinda like if i wanna not wear my seat belt and fly through my own windshield and die, i should be allowed to!! but no you have big money insurance companies that paid off our politicians to vote for a seat belt law. and now every happy go lucky cop uses it as a tool to pull you over and try to harrass you and trick you into letting them search your car. its a never ending spiral into the pit of dispare

Oh but if you fail to follow the law and do not wear your seat belt..and you get killed it costs all of us money. And common sense should tell you to wear the belt law or not.

As for a traffic stop for no seat belt you might want to read the IC on it. It has limits.

 

[Joe Williams]

So I guess I am wondering, ok, the police come to your home for nothing more than a welfare check, you tell them to go away you are fine, and it escalates into the person who is being checked on, being murdered? Where am I missing something? What country am I in? What year is it? I mean what the hell is going on?

How about this:

TO ALL GOVERNMENT AGENTS STAY OFF MY PROPERTY UNLESS BRINGING A WARRANT!!

Does that work, can I put that sign up outside, or will I be a "enemy combatant" to our tyrannical government?

INGunGuy

JOC, do you know what a welfare check is, and all the various circumstances that can warrant one?