You remember this guy, right?

[Tyler-The-Piker]

 

[Bennettjh]

 

[remauto1187]

I find it confusing that the same guy who confronts an acquaintance by pointing a gun at them and has demonstrated a lack of good judgement (you), would condemn this guy. It not that big of a leap to go from "I was just pointing my gun to scare him" to having a dead person laying in your driveway.

You might try reading the facts BEFORE you try to state facts. The person in my driveway was NOT an "aquaintance" of mine. I did not point my gun to "scare" anyone. I was prepared to kill a man in my driveway that had his hand under his coat like he was going to pull a gun and If he had I would have killed him in my driveway that night. Just like any rational person that prefers to live would. But nice try comparing my incident in my driveway to Byron Smith that ambushed and executed 2 individuals that according to the records DID NOT appear to have any weapons nor were they acting like they were drawing any while he was intentionally waiting in his basement in a chair to ambush.

Byron Smith got life. I notified the police of my incident immediately after and they had no problem with it...and they are the law....so I reckon your opinion is just that...an opinion which has ZERO legal standing.

 

[Classic]

I find it confusing that the same guy who confronts an acquaintance by pointing a gun at them and has demonstrated a lack of good judgement (you), would condemn this guy. It not that big of a leap to go from "I was just pointing my gun to scare him" to having a dead person laying in your driveway.

Glad you put this out there, helped me understand.

 

[jdmack79]

You might try reading the facts BEFORE you try to state facts. The person in my driveway was NOT an "aquaintance" of mine. I did not point my gun to "scare" anyone. I was prepared to kill a man in my driveway that had his hand under his coat like he was going to pull a gun and If he had I would have killed him in my driveway that night. Just like any rational person that prefers to live would. But nice try comparing my incident in my driveway to Byron Smith that ambushed and executed 2 individuals that according to the records DID NOT appear to have any weapons nor were they acting like they were drawing any while he was intentionally waiting in his basement in a chair to ambush.

Byron Smith got life. I notified the police of my incident immediately after and they had no problem with it...and they are the law....so I reckon your opinion is just that...an opinion which has ZERO legal standing.

Really? Let's look at the below quotes from your post. Most rational people here on INGO seemed to agree that you went overboard.

She looked out the window and said she recognized the vehicle as one of her girlfriend's boyfriends' vehicle. He is not welcome at our home. He has a few problems with drinking and drugs...

So this person isn't an acquaintance? Here is the definition of acquaintance: A person one knows slightly, but who is not a close friend.

It appears that you were familiar with this person and knew who he was before the incident in question.

My girlfriend went to the door.... I could hear her talking with him and he was whining like a little girl because his girlfriend had left him.

A guy who is whining like a little girl while talking to your girlfriend sounds like a horrible threat to your safety.

I stepped outside with my handgun to my side and immediately noticed his hand inside his coat. It looked like he was holding a weapon of some sort by the way his elbow was pointed up toward the sky and his arm/hand was not moving in position.

That was enough for me, considering his history and obvious desperation at 2:30am. I drew and aimed for center chest and told him to get the hell off my property and dont ever come back

You saw a guy with his hand in his pocket in February? How suspicious and threatening!

Some may say why didnt I drop him in my driveway. Mercy...is all I can say, that and I didnt really feel like going down to answer a bunch of questions and have to lawyer up and all that mess.

For your own sake, I'm glad you had "mercy" (or a moment of what the rest of us would call common sense) that morning too. In no way did you act like a rational person.

 

[Sylvain]

 

[jbombelli]

This thread is full of irony. Funny funny irony.

 

[88GT]

To the point of the original post: what he did might have been illegal, but I doubt I would have cast a "guilty" verdict. I simply don't have any sympathy or patience for criminals who invade a home with the intent of causing harm or stealing. All consequences that follow are on them. Period.

Side point: Love to see someone else picking up on the hypocrisy.

 

[Paul30]

It has been a while since this happened, but the guy was ok until he admitted that after the girl was down he fired a "finishing shot" A person has a right to protect themselves in their own castle, hence the "Castle Doctrine". We usually give the homeowner the benefit of the doubt if someone breaks in because anyone in their right mind should believe they are in danger of great bodily harm or death should a stranger break in. His home had been burglarized a few times recently before, and the burglars took several guns so if they were the same ones returning, he had good right to believe they were armed and I would assume this. They say he waited on them, he could have just as easily been afraid after all the break ins and felt like he was in a more safe environment in his man cave, it might also just be a place he prefers to be. Lots of people have a favorite part of their home, and keep snacks etc. there. After several burglaries, I would want recorded evidence should it happen again to either help find them and convict them if they break in while I'm away or if they kill me in my own home. If a group of home invaders were there and one came down the stairs and I believed them a threat to my life, I would shoot them from a position that placed me in the least vulnerable position, if that is behind the stairs shooting them in the back, then I saved my life. This isn't a fake western, I don't wear a white hat, and you don't have to give a person intent on killing you an equal chance at winning an armed conflict they made happen. If the shot was not heard, I would not want the rest of the gang to spot the body and realize someone is home and start blasting, so I can see him dragging the body out of plain site although they likely heard the shot, not all shots can be heard with the right equipment. On this evidence alone the prosecutor would find me voting not guilty.

Where I feel he did wrong was once you are no longer in danger, you can't shoot them again. The girl was laying there bleeding to death, and he admitted he walked up to her and gave her one final "finishing shot" to the head. That alone would be enough to convict. She likely would have died of her wounds, but he finished her off. Some might consider it an act of compassion to kill a mortally wounded creature and put it out of it's misery, but our laws are our laws. He is not a medic, and may have lived with proper care. After reading everything I read on the case, he was an odd guy and did wrong, but I don't buy anything a prosecutor says at face value, I think for myself. Innocent until proven guilty means you assume the person charged is innocent until you observe evidence that convinces you that they are guilty.

I hope I never have to shoot anyone for any reason, but if I have to then that's what you have to do. When they are no longer a threat, I will call them an ambulance and hope for the best, but you don't walk up and put a shot in their head, that is a moral as well as a legal issue.

 

[Bennettjh]

 

[remauto1187]

Really? Let's look at the below quotes from your post. Most rational people here on INGO seemed to agree that you went overboard.




So this person isn't an acquaintance? Here is the definition of acquaintance: A person one knows slightly, but who is not a close friend.

It appears that you were familiar with this person and knew who he was before the incident in question.



A guy who is whining like a little girl while talking to your girlfriend sounds like a horrible threat to your safety.



You saw a guy with his hand in his pocket in February? How suspicious and threatening!



For your own sake, I'm glad you had "mercy" (or a moment of what the rest of us would call common sense) that morning too. In no way did you act like a rational person.

Well since you obviously dont know the definition of "acquaintance" Ill quote Merriam-Webster for you... "someone who is known but who is not a close friend" --- He is not a friend at all to me let alone close so NO he is NOT an aquaintance of mine. Really? You dont know the difference between hand in the pocket vs. hand in the coat appearing to reach toward the waistband? No where in any of your quotes of me say anything mentioning "hand in a pocket". Once again, get your "facts" straight. You arent privy to information that I am concerning the guy so you can armchair quarterback all you want. Im alive, You obviously would have died if you were in my shoes and he did pull a gun with intent to kill. I didnt give him the chance.
But way to go derailing the actual subject of the thread. Like I said before, the police held me in the clear by not showing up and arresting me. So it really doesnt matter what you think since you arent the law in my county but you are welcome to conduct fantasy courtroom at your own keyboard. You seem to think you are good at it.

 

[jdmack79]

Here is the definition of acquaintance: A person one knows slightly, but who is not a close friend.

It appears that you were familiar with this person and knew who he was before the incident in question.

Well since you obviously dont know the definition of "acquaintance" Ill quote Merriam-Webster for you... "someone who is known but who is not a close friend" --- He is not a friend at all to me let alone close so NO he is NOT an aquaintance of mine. Really?

Issues with reading comprehension today? The definition that I provided is essential the same as the one from Merriam-Webster.

You arent privy to information that I am concerning the guy so you can armchair quarterback all you want.

Again, it's kind of hard for you to keep claiming that this guy wasn't an acquaintance. How are you "privy to information" about the guy if you don't know of him? Judging from the rep response I've received, I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

 

[chezuki]

JD, I'm not sure why you're trying to rekindle an ancient INGO pile-on. While I don't agree with the way the situation was handled in the thread you referenced, it was a far cry from executing someone in your basement. Drawing comparison between the two is quite a stretch.

 

[jdmack79]

JD, I'm not sure why you're trying to rekindle an ancient INGO pile-on. While I don't agree with the way the situation was handled in the thread you referenced, it was a far cry from executing someone in your basement. Drawing comparison between the two is quite a stretch.

I find it entirely absurd that someone who has demonstrated such poor judgement with firearms in the past would even begin to criticize how this guy handled the incident. What's even crazier is that he claims that he's pulled his gun on someone at least two other times in different states. There seems to be a pattern.


I disagree with what the guy referenced in the OP did. He murdered those people. The OP of this thread should just be the LAST one to criticize how this was handled considering that he could have easily had a trial of his own that might have gone the same direction.

 

[remauto1187]

I find it entirely absurd that someone who has demonstrated such poor judgement with firearms in the past would even begin to criticize how this guy handled the incident. What's even crazier is that he claims that he's pulled his gun on someone at least two other times in different states. There seems to be a pattern.


I disagree with what the guy referenced in the OP did. He murdered those people. The OP of this thread should just be the LAST one to criticize how this was handled considering that he could have easily had a trial of his own that might have gone the same direction.

Kind of like how absurd and asanine I find you for not knowing most of the facts of my incident and then armchair quarterbacking it with your own "facts". Smith's facts were on audio and court records...we all know his. He murdered 2 people for no good reason other than he though he could get away with it because of "self defense". Smith was arrested for murder and convicted of murder. I wasnt even arrested but I sure as hell was prepared to get judged vs. what I was charged to prevent--- Any danger to my family or self and I sure as hell did that. You let someone reach toward their waistband and do nothing about it and see if you dont die like a coward. Every police officer in this country would have and do draw on someone that reaches into their coat/shirt toward their waistband. I am the law on my property and I am certainly no coward nor will I die like one.

 

[KLB]

JD, I'm not sure why you're trying to rekindle an ancient INGO pile-on. While I don't agree with the way the situation was handled in the thread you referenced, it was a far cry from executing someone in your basement. Drawing comparison between the two is quite a stretch.

Agreed. This is coming across as nothing more than a personal attack.

 

[88GT]

Kind of like how absurd and asanine I find you for not knowing most of the facts of my incident and then armchair quarterbacking it with your own "facts". Smith's facts were on audio and court records...we all know his. He murdered 2 people for no good reason other than he though he could get away with it because of "self defense". Smith was arrested for murder and convicted of murder. I wasnt even arrested but I sure as hell was prepared to get judged vs. what I was charged to prevent--- Any danger to my family or self and I sure as hell did that. You let someone reach toward their waistband and do nothing about it and see if you dont die like a coward. Every police officer in this country would have and do draw on someone that reaches into their coat/shirt toward their waistband. I am the law on my property and I am certainly no coward nor will I die like one.

If you are the law on your property, why aren't you affording the same to Mr. Smith?

 

[cosermann]

IBTL.

 

[SteveM4A1]

If you are the law on your property, why aren't you affording the same to Mr. Smith?

Because someone breaking into Mr. Smith's home is not a danger to life, duh.

Someone standing outside the home is way more of a threat.

 

[HoughMade]

Several on INGO have made it clear that they are fine with people who do illegal things being killed whether they present a threat or not.

Oddly, many of these same people pile on LEOs for things like asking for an I.D., let alone killing someone who isn't a threat.

Yeah, hypocrisy....it's an INGO thing.