Would your holstered handgun protect you from this?

[cedartop]

LiveLeak.com - Deadly Robbery At A Convenience Store (Graphic)

Warning, it is brutal. Action starts around the 2 minute mark.

 

[VERT]

Trying to figure out something to add to your thread old friend. I know where you are going with this one. That was graphic and violent. Honest answer is that a person may or may not have been able to access a sidearm. Definitely wouldn't be able to if it was a deep concealment piece. Some basic combative, grappling, wrestling or even some "traditional" martial arts training would have helped greatly. Outcome may have been the same but it would not have made the situation any worse.

 

[Hohn]

Holstered? I reckon not. I've read that most handgun training recommends drawing the weapon.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yup. It's why I keep something I can get to with either hand and nothing that requires two hands to put into action.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Why would it be holstered if someone is trying to kill you?

 

[MCgrease08]

It seems the attackers legs and feet were the most vulnerable spot.

The victim was rightly concerned with trying to control the arm holding the knife, but perhaps bringing the attacker closer in towards his body would have helped him pin that hand down and take away his ability to thrust, while giving the victim more leverage to stomp that dude's little flip-flop wearing feet.

 

[sidewinder27]

Sometimes you may have to get hit a few times while drawing the weapon but the point is you have to use it.

 

[Bfish]

Wow that was intense! Did the guy survive? Sure hope that guy is caught!

 

[mcjon77]

Attacks like this have been a big topic in the martial arts/mma community within the past 10 years. A lot of the traditional knife defenses martial artists learned proved to be of limited utility when facing an aggressive resisting opponent bent on stabbing you. Three trainers/groups in particular came up with possible solutions to this type of attack.

The Dog Brothers, in collaboration with Gabe Suarez, came up with a system they call "Die Less Often".
[video=youtube;XXBRXK1DG1Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBRXK1DG1Q[/video]

Centerline MMA Gym came up with the Red Zone Knife Defense.
[video=youtube;kiNjFlfIQXI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiNjFlfIQXI[/video]

Karl Tanswell came up with S.T.A.B.
[video=youtube;-_ZO17yWi7I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_ZO17yWi7I[/video]

Interestingly enough, while all 3 systems have slightly different origins (the Die Less Often is more Kali/Filipino Martial Arts Based, whereas Red Zone and STAB are more MMA/Wrestling based), they all seem to look very similar in practice.

For gun guys, the Die Less Often series may be of particular interest because it covers not just knife defense, but also when and how to go for your firearm in such a situation.

If you look at the video, from minute 2:40 to the point where he is finally stabbed at about 3:00, the victim is basically in a standing grappling match with the knifer similar to what we see in the videos that I linked. It just seems that he didn't know what to do with that position. He was so focused on keeping the knife away from him (good) that he didn't do anything offensive to the attacker (bad). For me, I would be looking hard for Judo/Wrestling style foot sweeps. That type of standing wrestling match seems to be begging for it. Other guys might use the (hopefully) free hand/elbow for strikes, or perhaps low kicks/foot stomps.

If someone wants to practice this, there are several ways (in addition to the one shown in the videos above). Burton Richardson demos practicing knife defense with a shock knife. A shock knife is just what it sounds like, a dummy knife that gives an electric shock. Think of it as a knife shaped stun gun. Practicing the techniques with fully resisting partners seems to be critical here.

[video=youtube;9WjSTIcE0cE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WjSTIcE0cE[/video]

 

[Kernal1984]

Man that was brutal, I hope he gets what he deserves in this life before he rots in hell but the justice system will likely just feed and clothe him for the rest of his life at our expense.

Without knowing what happened before they entered the back room it's hard to armchair quarterback but some situational awareness and a firearm on person would have likely increased his odds of survival.

 

[mcjon77]

Did anyone notice what the attacker got from the drawer after stabbing the victim? I am talking about the object he tucked into his pants. It looked like a holstered gun safely locked away.

 

[MCgrease08]

Man that was brutal, I hope he gets what he deserves in this life before he rots in hell but the justice system will likely just feed and clothe him for the rest of his life at our expense.

This took place in the Philippines. I'm not sure how they handle stuff like this in their legal system.

 

[cobber]

This took place in the Philippines. I'm not sure how they handle stuff like this in their legal system.

Differently, one hopes.

 

[cedartop]

Why would it be holstered if someone is trying to kill you?

Of course. This is something that those who are switched on 100% of the time, and carry their gun in hand in some sort of ready position 24/7, shouldn't have to worry about. Oh yeah, it would be great if you were really good at the speed rock as well.

 

[cedartop]

Good post mcjon77, that is in large part what I was getting at. We do recommend Red Zone.

 

[Lebowski]

Jeeze.. that was brutal. I think I'd much rather be shot several times than viciously stabbed like that...

This may have happened in a country where regular folks like store owners can't legally have guns, and those who do have them may have them illegally so they're not just laying out under the counter or on their hips. So sad that someone would murder someone else over what I can't imagine would be more than a few hundred dollars in a cash drawer.

Hope the guy was caught and stoned to death.

 

[rhino]

My thoughts:

• The clerk put up a good fight. I'm not sure what else he could have done under those circumstances.
• The scumbag criminal is clearly very experienced at every phase of what happened. That's not the first time he robbed a store, nor is it the first time he killed someone just to enable the theft. The scariest part is how calm and matter of fact he is throughout the struggle and when he is taking things afterward.
• Training and preparation are a great idea and can be very helpful in a variety of situations. I'm not convinced that most people would prevail against the specific attacker in the video even with a lot of very good training. They would certainly have a better chance with that preparation than without, though.

 

[jwh20]

It's like this IMHO. He had 0% chance without a firearm. He was overpowered by an obviously stronger and better armed assailant. If he had a firearm there is at least a chance he could have drawn it and used it to disable the attacker. The standard party-line is that a firearm is useless in situations like this and you're more likely to be shot and killed by your own weapon. This is total BS! If you have a handgun and have practiced drawing and using it, you DO have a chance. It's a deadly situation and the bad guy is determined to kill you. There is really no good outcome. Best case is that someone is going to get badly injured. Worst case is that someone is going to die. Having a firearms improves your odds of surviving!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It's like this IMHO. He had 0% chance without a firearm. He was overpowered by an obviously stronger and better armed assailant.

I don't know that the other guy was stronger. Frankly they looked evenly matched to me. Obviously better armed, but the victim did a great job of staying in the fight. The biggest issue is he fought defensively. He fought to avoid getting hurt, not to hurt the other guy. He never strikes or attempts to strike. He did a good job of tying up the knife hand, he did a good job of trying to keep the attacker grappled, he just never tried to strike back. You HAVE to go on the offense to win, and have to do it fast when you're facing someone who's armed better.

For someone who's likely untrained, surprised, and faced with that situation he did admirably well. With a bit of training, I think he'd have stood a solid chance of winning. With a gun, he'd have had a STRONG chance.

 

[jwh20]

Frankly they looked evenly matched to me.

Evenly matched but the bad guy had a knife. A decisive (and sadly fatal) advantage!