WI Man Investigated for Dealing W/O FFL

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If I had to guess, folks at the ATF were tasked with finding some examples. While the BATFE/NICS doesn't know how many or what make/model of firearms someone buys you'll never convince me they can't pull up how many transfers a name/dob/ssn have associated with them. Those transfers will have FFL numbers attached indicating a pattern of transfers from the same numbers. Once someone decides to look the data is there.

Good point. It probably wouldn't take but a couple milliseconds to run a report by buyer to figure out where to begin looking.

 

[Vigilant]

I keep a spreadsheet on the guns that I have bought and sold over the years. It shows that over 35 years, I average two gun transactions a year, (either buying or selling). That was from both private individuals and FFL dealers. Highest number was five transactions in one year.

This guy managed to buy 513 guns from Gander Mt in 12 years. He then turned around and sold them on Gunbroker. That is 1026 transactions in that period, averaging 85 transactions per year. Even more glaring is that he purchased 428 guns in a 5 year period. That is 856 transactions, averaging 171 transactions per year. Even if he did not sell all of the guns he purchased, that is still an extraordinary amount of transactions that would stand out for one individual.

I am sure he was flagged in the NCIS system for his high volume of purchases per month. The BATFE would have to be blinder that Hillarys COMSEC Security Staff, to just give him a pass.

With no central repository allowed by law, the BATFE, FBI, and NICS should have never known?

 

[BugI02]

If he was only using one GM, a routine audit of their operation could flag one particular name that came up on a lot of sales. Enough to put the dogs on the scent

 

[Mgderf]

So, I guess it's time to close the Gander Mountain loophole...

 

[hopper68]

I keep a spreadsheet on the guns that I have bought and sold over the years. It shows that over 35 years, I average two gun transactions a year, (either buying or selling). That was from both private individuals and FFL dealers. Highest number was five transactions in one year.

This guy managed to buy 513 guns from Gander Mt in 12 years. He then turned around and sold them on Gunbroker. That is 1026 transactions in that period, averaging 85 transactions per year. Even more glaring is that he purchased 428 guns in a 5 year period. That is 856 transactions, averaging 171 transactions per year. Even if he did not sell all of the guns he purchased, that is still an extraordinary amount of transactions that would stand out for one individual.

I am sure he was flagged in the NCIS system for his high volume of purchases per month. The BATFE would have to be blinder that Hillarys COMSEC Security Staff, to just give him a pass.

His brother lives in the INGO classified.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So, I guess it's time to close the Gander Mountain loophole...

I'll take "words you never thought you'd hear uttered" for $1000, Alex.

 

[Bennettjh]

I'm surprised he could make a profit buying from GM.

 

[17 squirrel]

I'm surprised he could make a profit buying from GM.

Being hooked up with a few employees and with a endless 25% off coupon made all the difference in having a positive flow.

 

[miguel]

Probably the same bastard buying all the 22LR before it hits the shelf..

 

[Bfish]

Being hooked up with a few employees and with a endless 25% off coupon made all the difference in having a positive flow.

Yeah 25% off is pretty good. You find any decent deals and it turns into a great deal!

 

[hopper68]

Probably the same bastard buying all the 22LR before it hits the shelf..

Yup...

 

[BugI02]

I'm surprised he could make a profit buying from GM.

Betcha somebody at GM giving out special deals to a 'good customer'. Follow the money

IBLeadeye

 

[dieselrealtor]

Likely that someone at GM tipped them off. Either a manager intentionally or someone with diarrhea of the mouth during a routine audit with the ATF.

 

[AA&E]

They said he spent about $170,000 on 513 firearms. Thats about $320 per gun.....from Gander.

If those figures are accurate, can we really argue he wasn't operating as a business?

 

[KJQ6945]

I would love to see where he tried to get an FFL, but was denied, because you can't run a business without a storefront.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I would love to see where he tried to get an FFL, but was denied, because you can't run a business without a storefront.

Exactly on point. The unintended consequences of this hysteria about FFLs is that the push back will be to make FFLs cheaper and easier to get.

 

[KJQ6945]

Exactly on point. The unintended consequences of this hysteria about FFLs is that the push back will be to make FFLs cheaper and easier to get.

This, or another case will bring the stupidity of the ATF to light.

Somebody from the ATF should be beaten to death with their own rule book after a few simple questions.

Would he have qualified to get an FFL at that time? No because, per ATF rules, if you don't have a storefront, you aren't a business.

 

[JettaKnight]

There's a certain level of hypocrisy. As gun owners we cry out, "enforce the laws on the books!" Then when Flipper McFlippsy gets busted we call the ATF stupid.

The ATF's job is to enforce the laws congress enacted concerning firearms (and other stuff).

McFlippsy turns a profit, he's probably not paying taxes, etc., etc. Why wouldn't the ATF bust him?

"Well, because they wouldn't give him an FFL01 because he doesn't have a 'storefront', so they shouldn't bust him!" Of course, you've made the assumption he actually tried to go legit. However, seeing his other business tactics, I find that unlikely. Nevertheless, my counter argument is thus: OK, The ATF won't give me Class 3 SOT, does that give me the right to go ahead and go full auto?

There's a number of industries that require licenses before you can operate as a business (e.g. electrical contractors, food service, barber). Whether you agree with that or not, it's the law of the land. If you choose to thumb your nose and then get caught, the stupid one isn't the arresting agency.


The way I see McFlippsy had three options:
1. Become a serious business, get licensed, pay taxes.
2. Come up with a legal means to make money and simply buy and keep guns.
3. Exploit GM's customer service (accepting coupons repeatedly), bribe employees for tips and compliance, run a fly-by-night operation, hope you don't land in jail.

Flipper McFlippsy is not the poster boy you're looking for.

 

[IndyDave1776]

This reminds me of a story where the BATFags came up empty. There was an old guy who was buying a gun or two a week and after about a year and a half of this, our friendly neighborhood feds dropped in to visit him. As they would discover, what he was doing was buying a gun or two, having some fun over the weekend, and then trading them back for something different to do the same thing with next weekend. Since there was no opening for straw purchase and he was definitely not making money on the deal, there wasn't much they could do but say 'have a nice day' and go look for the next target.

 

[KJQ6945]

There's a certain level of hypocrisy. As gun owners we cry out, "enforce the laws on the books!" Then when Flipper McFlippsy gets busted we call the ATF stupid.

The ATF's job is to enforce the laws congress enacted concerning firearms (and other stuff).

McFlippsy turns a profit, he's probably not paying taxes, etc., etc. Why wouldn't the ATF bust him?

"Well, because they wouldn't give him an FFL01 because he doesn't have a 'storefront', so they shouldn't bust him!" Of course, you've made the assumption he actually tried to go legit. However, seeing his other business tactics, I find that unlikely. Nevertheless, my counter argument is thus: OK, The ATF won't give me Class 3 SOT, does that give me the right to go ahead and go full auto?

There's a number of industries that require licenses before you can operate as a business (e.g. electrical contractors, food service, barber). Whether you agree with that or not, it's the law of the land. If you choose to thumb your nose and then get caught, the stupid one isn't the arresting agency.


The way I see McFlippsy had three options:
1. Become a serious business, get licensed, pay taxes.
2. Come up with a legal means to make money and simply buy and keep guns.
3. Exploit GM's customer service (accepting coupons repeatedly), bribe employees for tips and compliance, run a fly-by-night operation, hope you don't land in jail.

Flipper McFlippsy is not the poster boy you're looking for.

Slow down there Jetta. I have made no assumptions as to this guys business practices or his ethics. I stated that I would love to see where he tried to get an FFL but was denied.

The ATF is supposed to enforce laws enacted by congress as you stated, we agree on this. My issue with the ATF is they like to constantly re-define words, and enact rules that carry the weight of law. The definition of "in business" is very narrow to obtain an FFL, but the definition of "in business " used for prosecution is pretty broad, and likely to expand further. Congress hasn't passed any new laws concerning this. Congress didn't narrow who could get a license, the ATF did.


He's not my poster child, I just want to see the ATF brought under control.