Why I would never CC

[KG1]

Not on guns themselves, but it really is like anything else, the more you see it the less you notice it. Someone made the cell phone analogy, 20 years ago if you were on a cell phone you were stared at now if you are not holding a smart phone you are behind the times.

That's because the cell phone was the size of a brick.

 

[88GT]

Actually, indyjoe, you made it not quite the same thing, not me. I am looking at it from a personal choice perspective. YOU have the right to patrionize and YOU also have the right to seek employment whereever you desire and IF OC is that important, THEN you will find employment that allows it.

Unless feeding your family is more important.

What part of prioritization do you not understand?

Just because someone has a principled position on something doesn't mean that it's THE top principled position in their life.

 

[iChokePeople]

There isn't irrefutable proof for many things we all believe, it doesn't make it any less true for those that believe it.

Comparing OCing to smoking around children is morally apprehensible and I expect better than that from you considering how much you and I have discussed this topic. Let's both just give each other the respect we deserve here.

I don't understand your last point. To say that I should not perform a perfectly legal task I think some proof should be necessary to get me to change my beliefs. I do not expect CCers to convert so I am under no obligation to prove anything to them except to get them to let me do my thing and not bash the way I choose to carry sometimes.

Oh come now, you know I'm not comparing OCing to smoking around children -- I'm simply pointing out that 'desensitization' isn't a gimme. People don't just automagically become ok with something by exposure to it. In some cases, they get more and more disgusted by it. The antis make a claim, you all chant "proof, or it's only your opinion", but then use questionable, unsupportable (as far as I know -- open to that evidence) "facts" like the idea that by OCing, you're bringing the people to our side. That's all. "Because I choose to OC" is absolutely good enough.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Oh come now, you know I'm not comparing OCing to smoking around children -- I'm simply pointing out that 'desensitization' isn't a gimme. People don't just automagically become ok with something by exposure to it. In some cases, they get more and more disgusted by it. The antis make a claim, you all chant "proof, or it's only your opinion", but then use questionable, unsupportable (as far as I know -- open to that evidence) "facts" like the idea that by OCing, you're bringing the people to our side. That's all. "Because I choose to OC" is absolutely good enough.

Fair enough.

 

[Benny]

Not on guns themselves, but it really is like anything else, the more you see it the less you notice it. Someone made the cell phone analogy, 20 years ago if you were on a cell phone you were stared at now if you are not holding a smart phone you are behind the times.

I'm not a fan of pants and rarely wear them...I wish this trend would hurry up and catch on so I quit getting so many dirty looks.

 

[foszoe]

Your first sentence really makes my point. You can change what you do for a living, but you choose not to. The rest of your post is justification for why you choose not to, but you still make the choice.

I am not making a judgment call on your choice, I am just insisting you have one and have made it.

Don't read more into what I am saying than what I am saying

Actually I don't have a personal choice, without completely changing what I do for a living. If all employers treat OC firearms the same, I don't have a choice of seeking employment elsewhere. I have a choice of keeping my firearm quiet, or not having a job.

The same thing would apply if no businesses that supply a certain item allow you to OC. You wouldn't have the choice to shop somewhere else, you would have the choice to shop for it or not.

It is great to talk about having the right to go somewhere else to work. But in the real world, the employer is king, and the number of jobs out there are not large for all lines of work. I could take a $40k pay cut and work at a job that is carry friendly or I can work at a job in which I excel and have 15 years of experience. And a job where I have NEVER seen a carry friendly environment.

For me, CC isn't a big problem. The no firearms sign at the entrance is no legally binding. I accommodate certain wishes, because they are paying me. Other things I'm quiet about ignoring, with the understanding that it would cost me my job.

I see quite a large difference in this than choosing what businesses I patronize.

 

[foszoe]

Unless feeding your family is more important.

What part of prioritization do you not understand?

Just because someone has a principled position on something doesn't mean that it's THE top principled position in their life.

The statement "Why I would NEVER CC" leaves no room for prioritization.
All that means is I will either OC or NOT carry.
Do you understand that? If I mistated the alternatives please tell me.

Then to post that I CC even though I would NEVER CC is contradictory. Do you understand that? That is a contradiction isn't it?

You insinuate that you are incapable of feeding your family if you don't work where you work now. I give you more credit than that, I think you are smart enough to retrain yourself and switch fields if necessary. May you lose income? possibly but I doubt you will starve. Perhaps you can't do it tomorrow but it's not an impossibility.

However, if you want to prioritize principles, then don't use the word never.

That's what I am saying.

 

[kjf40]

And I won't attack you for saying this, but here is something to consider.

If he wanted to rob the place, chances are, he wasn't prepared to murder someone. He wants to come in, get the money, and go. If he kills someone in the process, now he's got that to deal with.

Yes, some criminals truly don't care. They'll kill for for $5. That said, most of them are "reasonable." Reasonable for a criminal. What I mean by that is that they have a natural fear of mortality, and will not attack an armed target. They will not add a murder charge to their robbery charge.

I know someone who stopped a bank robbery. He was CCing. The perp came in, pulled a gun, and demanded money. The CCer quickly drew, and got him on the floor.

Turns out, the kid had a toy gun. Now, had that been my bank when I was present, he may have turned the other way, or waited until I left. Probably would have left altogether. A kid with a toy gun is no match for a cop and myself. Maybe they would account for the officer being there, but now they see me, and it throws a wrench in the works.

I see various possible outcomes in that one. If I CC, they may attack with me in there, and I can help the officer deal with the threats. If I OC (Which I do), they may wait until I leave, thus leaving the officer without any backup.

There are pros and cons to both. For me, OC is far better.


Oooh, and another one;

It pisses off liberals.

The robbery i am speaking of was a young kid who was givin the money no problem...the lady handed it over, he shot her anyway, several times.
It's hard to say how it would have gone down had someone been in there OC'ing or CC'ing.
So it seems that he had no remorse...didnt care about getting a murder charge at all....so IMO had someone been there either way he would have taken them out to get what he came for.

All boils down to preference i suppose.

I see your point, i see the CC point.

 

[LPMan59]

Oh come now, you know I'm not comparing OCing to smoking around children -- I'm simply pointing out that 'desensitization' isn't a gimme. People don't just automagically become ok with something by exposure to it. In some cases, they get more and more disgusted by it. The antis make a claim, you all chant "proof, or it's only your opinion", but then use questionable, unsupportable (as far as I know -- open to that evidence) "facts" like the idea that by OCing, you're bringing the people to our side. That's all. "Because I choose to OC" is absolutely good enough.

evidence isnt required when it's your point that is being asserted, only when it's something you disagree with. duh

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Okay.

Still, I'm not saying I don't support the right to OC a .25. I just think it looks silly. Saw someone OCing a PF9 once. That looked silly, too. Can't imagine what a .25 would look like.

A RACES volunteer of my acquaintance used to OC his teeny .380 everywhere, including in the Public Safety Answering Point where our meetings were held. I never thought a thing about it. And think about it, it's like one of Murphy's Laws of War: If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid.

 

[bwframe]

...I warned the hardcore CCers about this.
...It has been argued. We have won. It's over...

Oh, that's it, then. You won. Shut down the Internet, everyone.

I fully support your right to OC, but statements like this, like the thread in general, do very little to help anyone.

Why don't you just shut up. He won.

As I said, I was letting off steam. I get so frustrated with all this fighting.
Yeah, I went after CCers a little there. Maybe I shouldn't have. Oh well. I knew I could win the argument, I just didn't want one.

Is this always how you deal with the public?

 

[00BlasterResto]

not this tired ole argument again. Find a few stories about someone with a gun being the first target anywhere outside of a combat zone or with a conflict with LEO

I don't need story's, it is just the way I figure it. I am a smaller fellow and I don't have any interest in wrestling somebody for my gun. Will it happen probly not, but better safe than sorry.
Really for me it is more about staying under the radar, I am not looking for any confrontation whether it be good or bad.

 

[SSGSAD]

2. OC works as a crime deterrent.

I see this cited a lot. Are there any reputable statistical analyses that actually show this? I'm not attacking OC: i actually like it. Just because something might have a logical implication doesn't make it true (ie the death penalty is a deterrent).

I managed a Armoured Car business, and the bg, saw my guy come in, full uniform, and DUTY belt, waited till my guy left, and robbed the "store" for less than $200.00.... ( my guy, left with $25,000... It was safely secured, NO way for the bg to get it, unless confront my guy...)...

 

[foszoe]

I managed a Armoured Car business, and the bg, saw my guy come in, full uniform, and DUTY belt, waited till my guy left, and robbed the "store" for less than $200.00.... ( my guy, left with $25,000... It was safely secured, NO way for the bg to get it, unless confront my guy...)...

If the bg had robbed the store prior to the arrival of your driver and left vs stealing the 25G while it was in the possession of an armored car driver, would there be any difference in the criminal charges/penalties?

 

[indyjoe]

Your first sentence really makes my point. You can change what you do for a living, but you choose not to. The rest of your post is justification for why you choose not to, but you still make the choice.

I am not making a judgment call on your choice, I am just insisting you have one and have made it.

Don't read more into what I am saying than what I am saying

I never said that I didn't make a decision. I didn't start this thread entitled "Why I would never CC", a person who later admitted to often CCing to work did.

You stated that I can chose where I work just like I can chose where I do business. You seem to miss that fact that one if nearly effortless, and the other requires almost complete destruction of ones life. You say that choosing between OC'ing at work and putting food on the table is a false dichotomy.

If I chose to get a job where I could OC, I would take a minimum of a $40k pay cut. Unless there are other advanced computer programmer jobs out there that allow OC. I have not seen them, having been associated with this industry for 2 decades and working in it full time for 15 years.

It is NOT a false dichotomy to say that I either CC or I don't put food on my table. Hell, a $40k income lost and I don't have my table anymore or my house.

Dichotomy - Splitting things into two non-overlapping parts.

I guess if you consider losing my home, selling our cars, selling the tools that I will not have space to own anymore, as not really changing. Then sure, it is a false dichotomy. But I don't see it that way.

Principles don't exist in a vacuum.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Okay. Here goes.

I just want to clear some things up. I "never" CC. What I mean by that is outside of work. Maybe the thread title should be "Why I would usually never CC, and only CC at work." Not as catchy, if you ask me.

I do CC at work. A lot of us do. For many, including me, it is the only option. I need to pay my bills, and have food. Without a job, it's difficult to do this. Not everyone has their dream job. Not everyone does exactly what we want to be doing for a living. Is it so farfetched that some people take what job they can get, so they can have a steady paycheck? More so, is it farfetched that some people sacrifice for their jobs? I can't OC at work. I'm not allowed to carry at all. I can get away with CC, because no one knows. I CCed for about a year, and only my supervisor knew. He was fine with it. Then the boss finds out. I was printing just a little. He tells me that he doesn't want me carrying in there anymore. So instead of PF9 IWB, now I have a P-25 on my ankle. Huge drop in stopping power, and accessibility, but it's better than naught. But now, everyone thinks I don't carry at work anymore.

Outside of work, no, I never CC. Well, I never only CC. I usually have at least one BUG. I can't think of any reason to CC. That's me though.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. I'm not trying to tell you how to carry. As my avatar would suggest, I don't care what you carry, just that you carry.

Also, I don't care how you carry. Carry what, and how, is comfortable with you.

We're all on the same team here. If they came after CC rights, I would stand up for you. I think it should be legal, and support it. I just don't do it (outside of work.) It's fine to have a discussion on the matter, and I'm very surprised this hasn't gotten nastier. Thank you for not devolving this thread into a petty spitting match.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Okay. Here goes.

I just want to clear some things up. I "never" CC. What I mean by that is outside of work. Maybe the thread title should be "Why I would usually never CC, and only CC at work." Not as catchy, if you ask me.

I do CC at work. A lot of us do. For many, including me, it is the only option. I need to pay my bills, and have food. Without a job, it's difficult to do this. Not everyone has their dream job. Not everyone does exactly what we want to be doing for a living. Is it so farfetched that some people take what job they can get, so they can have a steady paycheck? More so, is it farfetched that some people sacrifice for their jobs? I can't OC at work. I'm not allowed to carry at all. I can get away with CC, because no one knows. I CCed for about a year, and only my supervisor knew. He was fine with it. Then the boss finds out. I was printing just a little. He tells me that he doesn't want me carrying in there anymore. So instead of PF9 IWB, now I have a P-25 on my ankle. Huge drop in stopping power, and accessibility, but it's better than naught. But now, everyone thinks I don't carry at work anymore.

Outside of work, no, I never CC. Well, I never only CC. I usually have at least one BUG. I can't think of any reason to CC. That's me though.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. I'm not trying to tell you how to carry. As my avatar would suggest, I don't care what you carry, just that you carry.

Also, I don't care how you carry. Carry what, and how, is comfortable with you.

We're all on the same team here. If they came after CC rights, I would stand up for you. I think it should be legal, and support it. I just don't do it (outside of work.) It's fine to have a discussion on the matter, and I'm very surprised this hasn't gotten nastier. Thank you for not devolving this thread into a petty spitting match.

 

[CPT Nervous]

 

[handgun]

I open carry where I can.. I conceal carry everywhere else, work, school, K-12, the post office, Daycare, the hospital, the bank, the bar, and the court house.. Ssssh.. Don't tell anyone! after all who is going to know, and why would you consent to a strip search at the post office or day care or a k-12 school...

 

[indyjoe]

I just want to clear some things up. I "never" CC. What I mean by that is outside of work. Maybe the thread title should be "Why I would usually never CC, and only CC at work." Not as catchy, if you ask me.

The complete truth is often less catchy than partial truths.