Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[jkholmes]

True, but as soon as you bring in that third party to be your big stick, you have already ruined your relationship with your neighbor and put them on the defensive. I've actually had more luck working with neighbors who had issues than otherwise. Once we left the HOA, we never had a neighbor we weren't able to work with in some way.

 

[AlVine]

I could never live with an HOA, it would be like a mortgage I could never get rid of. Government is bad enough, it's already way too intrusive, I don't want to give another entity power over me and how I use my property.

 

[two70]

All this revolves around the issue of "reasonableness". You'll get no satisfaction dealing with a "trashy" neighbor if he isn't reasonable unless you have something to back you up. Someone once said, "Speak softly, but carry a big stick". A "reasonable" HOA will keep the neighborhood safer, looking presentable and keep values up. Most folks who cause issues that adversely impact their neighbors are not reasonable. My HOA is reasonable and I've lived here for over 20 years without feeling a need to butt heads with them.

The problem is that for many HOAs another cliched expression is more apt: "To a guy with a hammer everything looks like a nail."

 

[jkholmes]

Took wife to surgery today. When the nurse comes out to the truck she sees Argos. Thinks he is so handsome. Then all the other nurses want to say hi to Argos. One speaks up and says she can't have a GSD because the breed is banned by her HOA even though her border collie is more of a problem than the Shepherds she has known.

LOL, I just have to point out, I don't see the name "Argos" much, but our dog's name is also Argos! :-D

 

[foszoe]

well, not indefinitely. 1 year old vehicle can sit there2 years, 2 year old car 1.

Doggydaddy has reached that age where each birthday, he's still 55.....treats cars the same way!

 

[BE Mike]

True, but as soon as you bring in that third party to be your big stick, you have already ruined your relationship with your neighbor and put them on the defensive. I've actually had more luck working with neighbors who had issues than otherwise. Once we left the HOA, we never had a neighbor we weren't able to work with in some way.

Sounds like your neighbors were reasonable and you are virtuous.

 

[jkholmes]

No, I just believe that it is between me and my neighbor to work it out and that there is no sense in getting angry or heavy handed to get results. When you do that, people tend to get defensive or defiant, and nothing ever works out. But if you try to work together, you develop a working relationship.

Besides, I have a fundamental problem with some other entity (whether its government or corporate) coming in and telling me (or someone else) what I can and can't do with my own property. I think that is a fundamental problem that ALOT of people have come to accept way to much.

*Edit* and side note, I actually had some pretty rough neighbors. One of them in fact threatened my wife and I, and one of them kept calling us names as they would drive by and yell it out of their car windows at us.

 

[bobzilla]

I just prefer to not have neighbors

 

[CindyE]

I'm just going to provide the experience my wife and I had with an HOA. I found them to not apply rules equally to everyone, and played favorites no matter who was in charge. Also, I find the thought of someone being able to tell you what to do with your own property very troublesome, even if it is something stupid. As long as noone is getting hurt or put into danger, it shouldn't matter. And if I find something my neighbor is doing to be trashy or something, that is between me and him, not some 3rd entity to set up arbitrary rules.

Anyways, so my wife and I had purchased our first house in one of those cookie cutter subdivisions in Indy. It had been a foreclosure but was in really good shape. Really the only thing we were doing to it was very minor stuff and some paint (that is a whole different story...lol). Anyways, 2 days after we took possession of the house, we got a letter from the HOA stating that we had to many dandelions in our yard and that this would be our only warning. If we didn't show them our plan to resolve the issue quickly, they were going "take action" against us. At the very same time, about 3-4 houses down, there was a house that had about a third of its siding hanging off the side of the house as well as several houses with cars in very obvious states of disrepair.

In the end, the house was a huge net positive for us. We got into our first house, we made a TON of money off it and it allowed us to begin the process of getting out of the city and move on to nicer and better homes. But we made it a requirement that ALL future homes would not be in an HOA. Honestly, I don't know a single one of my friends who has had a positive experience with an HOA.

Over dandelions?

 

[Hoosierdood]

One thing that I like about our HOA is that it is operated through a 3rd party management company. Measures are voted on by the 5 member HOA board, but all communication with the members goes through the management company. This helps to provide checks and balances so that no board member or president can power trip or treat members unfairly. Some legal issues or documents are dealt directly with the board, but every measure needs a majority vote, and each board member has one vote.

There are a couple board members who want to pass rules about just about everything under the sun. I am usually the one who says "wait and see" if it becomes a problem and then address the problem at that time.

 

[jkaetz]

One thing that I like about our HOA is that it is operated through a 3rd party management company. Measures are voted on by the 5 member HOA board, but all communication with the members goes through the management company. This helps to provide checks and balances so that no board member or president can power trip or treat members unfairly. Some legal issues or documents are dealt directly with the board, but every measure needs a majority vote, and each board member has one vote.

There are a couple board members who want to pass rules about just about everything under the sun. I am usually the one who says "wait and see" if it becomes a problem and then address the problem at that time.

But the management company can power trip. You've literally hired someone with nothing to do but look for violations. This is great if your bylaws are well written and the management company follows them. If the rules are broad and/or the management company takes liberties interpreting them you're no better than a board run HOA.

 

[Cameramonkey]

But the management company can power trip. You've literally hired someone with nothing to do but look for violations. This is great if your bylaws are well written and the management company follows them. If the rules are broad and/or the management company takes liberties interpreting them you're no better than a board run HOA.

AND it costs more money to the residents.

The neighboring HOA residents are complaining because when the board prez gets power trippy, the management company sends a letter. And they charge the HOA for each and every letter they have to send. So instead of a volunteer being a little Napoleon for free sliding nastygrams in a violator's front door for the cost a printed piece of paper to the tune of a few cents and his time to be on a power trip, The management company charges like $5 per letter. So he not only annoys residents, but costs the non-violators cash as well.

 

[Hoosierdood]

But the management company can power trip. You've literally hired someone with nothing to do but look for violations. This is great if your bylaws are well written and the management company follows them. If the rules are broad and/or the management company takes liberties interpreting them you're no better than a board run HOA.

Not really the way the agreement is set up. The management company has authority to collect dues and allocate funds. They can levy fines to owners who violate rules, but only after a majority vote of the board. They correspond to the owners, and it is all done either through email or a portal on their web site. Administrative costs are very low. They only have the authority that the board gives them.
Honestly, this is the first HOA that I’ve been a member of, and it’s not as bad as I thought it would be. Paying dues on top of my mortgage is kinda lame, but those dues pay for the majority of the maintenance that I would have had to do anyway. I don’t have to mow grass, power wash siding, or shovel snow. When the roof needs replaced, it gets done.
There are checks and balances set up so that no one person has too much authority, and goes on a power trip. The board makes the decisions and the management company carries them out. Pretty nice setup actually.

 

[HoughMade]

This seemed like the thread...

 

[CHCRandy]

Not really the way the agreement is set up. The management company has authority to collect dues and allocate funds. They can levy fines to owners who violate rules, but only after a majority vote of the board. They correspond to the owners, and it is all done either through email or a portal on their web site. Administrative costs are very low. They only have the authority that the board gives them.
Honestly, this is the first HOA that I’ve been a member of, and it’s not as bad as I thought it would be. Paying dues on top of my mortgage is kinda lame, but those dues pay for the majority of the maintenance that I would have had to do anyway. I don’t have to mow grass, power wash siding, or shovel snow. When the roof needs replaced, it gets done.
There are checks and balances set up so that no one person has too much authority, and goes on a power trip. The board makes the decisions and the management company carries them out. Pretty nice setup actually.

Just curious, who pays to have your roofs replaced? I was dealing with an HOA last year that had 30, what I call doubles...they call them condos. They had a ton of shingles blow off on almost every unit and they called my company to roof them. What a mess that turned into.

The HOA wanted them repaired, but they were not really repairable since they were discontinued shingles. The HOA didn't have the money to pay to have them all replaced....nearly $500,000. Then it got real weird....some homeowners wanted to hire me to roof their half of the "condo", and leave the other side because that homeowner didn't want to pay.

I tried turning it over to insurance but then I found out each condo owner carried insurance for half of the building and personal belongings....but all outdoor damage was suppose to be covered by a different insurance the HOA had.

I had HOA members calling me, homeowners, insurance adjusters, management company. As much as I hated to lose that job, I ended up giving it to a friend of mine. They just had him patch it up. Them roofs still have not been replaced.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Just curious, who pays to have your roofs replaced? I was dealing with an HOA last year that had 30, what I call doubles...they call them condos. They had a ton of shingles blow off on almost every unit and they called my company to roof them. What a mess that turned into.

The HOA wanted them repaired, but they were not really repairable since they were discontinued shingles. The HOA didn't have the money to pay to have them all replaced....nearly $500,000. Then it got real weird....some homeowners wanted to hire me to roof their half of the "condo", and leave the other side because that homeowner didn't want to pay.

I tried turning it over to insurance but then I found out each condo owner carried insurance for half of the building and personal belongings....but all outdoor damage was suppose to be covered by a different insurance the HOA had.

I had HOA members calling me, homeowners, insurance adjusters, management company. As much as I hated to lose that job, I ended up giving it to a friend of mine. They just had him patch it up. Them roofs still have not been replaced.

That sounds like a nightmare. We haven't had anything like that yet. Our condos are townhouses. We have 3 groups of 10 townhouses. Owners carry condo insurance for everything on the inside of their home and their belongings. The HOA carries insurance on the outside. Thats pretty common for condos to operate that way. These condos were built around 2001. A small percentage of the HOA dues have been set aside every year, with plans on replacing the roofs around 20 years. We replaced the roof on one unit last year, and have paused the project on the other 2 units until material prices stabilize a little.

 

[HoughMade]

In my Mom's condo community, the new roofs are paid for through the maintenance fees by each resident. They have a replacement schedule so they can plan out what the fees to charge and not be hit with a bunch or roofs all at once. It's a very well run place.

I wouldn't like such an arrangement, but it works well for a moderately comfortable widow in her '80s.

 

[JCSR]

This seemed like the thread...

View attachment 153840

I could paint that in a weekend.

 

[jkaetz]

Not really the way the agreement is set up. The management company has authority to collect dues and allocate funds. They can levy fines to owners who violate rules, but only after a majority vote of the board. They correspond to the owners, and it is all done either through email or a portal on their web site. Administrative costs are very low. They only have the authority that the board gives them.
Honestly, this is the first HOA that I’ve been a member of, and it’s not as bad as I thought it would be. Paying dues on top of my mortgage is kinda lame, but those dues pay for the majority of the maintenance that I would have had to do anyway. I don’t have to mow grass, power wash siding, or shovel snow. When the roof needs replaced, it gets done.
There are checks and balances set up so that no one person has too much authority, and goes on a power trip. The board makes the decisions and the management company carries them out. Pretty nice setup actually.

Condos are one step up from an apartment. You know going in that there are things you can't do/aren't responsible for. I would hope the condo association is better managed than single family home neighborhoods. As Randy pointed out there can be lots of fail in those as well. Sounds like yours has its priorities strait by planning for known maintenance items.

 

[CHCRandy]

That sounds like a nightmare. We haven't had anything like that yet. Our condos are townhouses. We have 3 groups of 10 townhouses. Owners carry condo insurance for everything on the inside of their home and their belongings. The HOA carries insurance on the outside. Thats pretty common for condos to operate that way. These condos were built around 2001. A small percentage of the HOA dues have been set aside every year, with plans on replacing the roofs around 20 years. We replaced the roof on one unit last year, and have paused the project on the other 2 units until material prices stabilize a little.

Well that makes sense....that explains why the HOA I was working with had no money for the roofs, since they are fairly new.....like 3-4 years old, thus not having much time to set aside funds.

That is still interesting to me how the insurance on these work. So if I buy a condo, my homeowners only covers my personal belongings and interior. So for example, say I have a pipe burst in my condo and floods it...is that on my insurance or HOA's? And if the building burns down......HOA negotiates my settlement with the exterior insurance?

I remember bidding the condos at Prestwick in Avon about 20 years ago. They are townhouse style, they had about 25 buildings each with 4-5 townhouses. They had every unit that needed roofed and sided. They had not collected enough funds and assessed everyone like a $6000 fee, boy were them people pissed, but really $6000 to have your home sided and roofed is pretty cheap, even in 2000.

On another note....I got OSB yesterday for $14 a sheet. That stuff was $50 3-4 weeks ago, so prices are coming back to earth. Also shingle deliveries are coming in strong, but shingle prices have not dropped, and probably never will. Shingle industry for years has used every excuse in the book to up prices, but they never drop them...in 30 years of this business, I have never seen shingle or siding prices go down. When oil went up 20 years ago they raised the prices because of oil, then it was fuel costs, then floods, then Covid.....they have never decreased prices. In fact they just raised shingle prices again 2 weeks ago...7.5%. I think they all work together and if they are all expensive, and people need them, they will pay whatever if no other alternative.