Who says we have to let welfare trash vote?

[jath08]

I can agree with your objection to having people vote themselves a living on our dime. On the other hand, you need to stop slamming our bricklaying neighbor. It is a safe bet that more has been paid in off of his work than he receives back. How do you reasonably complain about someone receiving back what was taken from the proceeds of his work for that very purpose?
.

IndyDave1776 if I could send ya more Rep for this I would. Thankyou

 

[IndyDave1776]

Once again for those who dont read a thread and justpost. Im not yet to SS age but old enough to have voted for Ronnie. So tell me what you do with your time? Cold weather is down time since for us who actually spend time shooting not air gunning.



As far as who is paying whose bills you just showed my point.

“It is a safe bet that more has been paid in off of his work than he receives back. How do you reasonably complain about someone receiving back what was taken from the proceeds of his work for that very purpose?”

MOST of us have NEVER received a damn dime of what was taken from us in the name of fairness. And if we did it was far exceeded by what was taken. I got a couple weeks of unemployment in my whole life since I had the bad luck of being able to find a job, be it a poopy one, out of a sense of pride over licking my bag at home and crying about a job being worth my time.

I must have stumbled across the website of the occupy and gun owners site it seems.

Voted for Reagan? You must be tougher than I though if you have survived this long with that attitude while dealing with others in person over the course of your life, unless of course, it only manifests in anonymous long-distance conversations such as this. I am not going to begrudge a man managing to recoup what is rightfully his in the first place, although the maximum amount available on a given claim is less than what has actually been paid in. Just because not everyone has the opportunity to do so is irrelevant. Your sour grapes are showing. Incidentally, if you take Social Security when the time comes, let's see, that makes you more of a hypocrite than you accuse our bricklayer of being--after all, if you take it, your benefits come from what is being paid in by people still working, not funds paid in from your own payroll which are held, like unemployment is. I should hate to think of you becoming what you accuse someone else of being only a whole lot worse.

As for who is paying my bills, I will reiterate my point: I work for my own living. What I do with my free time in none of your business and you are cordially invited to mind your own business and keep your speculation to yourself.

In the end, it is patently obvious that you are most bitter (justifiably so) about freeloaders (people who collect money that is not a product of their own labor) but you are also bitter that there are people who occasionally manage to reclaim a portion of money forcibly skimmed from their own labor (bitterness for which is absolutely not justified, as it came from their own labor, not yours) which you were too prideful to reclaim when the opportunity existed, yet you resent that someone else did. The fruit of his labor rightfully belongs to him. My time rightfully belongs to me. Mind your own business--and grow up.

 

[jath08]

NOW on to yournamehere or is it Jim H. Or Jim C. of Wildcat Valley Rifle and Pistol Club/Cowboy Action Program. Now I may be wrong and I apologize if I am but I beleive you were one of the reenactors at the 2A Rally.

Ill open my rebuttal that you have so been anticipating with these two verses:

Proverbs 31:9-Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.
and this verse
Leviticus 25:35-“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you.

Now as far as your last post calling me out about my internet and computers and "riding off your back for my EBT" Well my friend unless you want to pay for my bills its NOYB. But since you are so obviously a dissedent and so deadset on stirring the pot and causing discord among the community here as you have done in just about every post since you joined, I beleive you referred to ALL of us as non obama welfare lowlifes or union trash. I will be obliged to entertain your condescending thoughts for one last time.

Since you want to know all about me well here goes.
I pay my bills and have my internet and laptops with what unemployment I receive or as some have put my entitlement along with what I save from working in the summer. I still opt to pay taxes on that as well. So therefore I am still paying into the system which in turn helps fund things like EBT and SSI. I own my own vehicle and house, OUTRIGHT, and I LIVE WITHIN MY MEANS. I dont get to do everything that I normally like to do like spend an afternoon at the range shooting 5 to 600 rounds.

Now as to riding off your back on EBT. (Please refer to the second verse I quoted)
Im 37 years old and have been working and paying into the system since I was 16. I have probaly fed thousands or more off of what I have paid into the system. And yes a good percentage probably didnt deserve it becasue they were abusing such privileges and "making a living off it". Now do I agree with that, NO I dont. I have seen the individuals stand in line for assistance and then drive away with a car that has $3000 dollar rims on it. I also have seen those individuals that have stood in line to get help,and thank the Lord they were able to get help. And then in passing have a conversation with the person and come to find out they were just laid off from a 20 year job due to outsourcing and couldnt find anything else due to his skill set. I have applied for countless jobs before only to be refused because they say they dont want a temporary emplyee due to the fact that Ill go back to masonry when it gets warmer weather because its better money.
My point is not all people are "Welfare Trash" according to how you view it. Some do abuse it and there should be way to weed those individuals out of taking advantage of it. While some truly do need the help like EBT. Am I justified in reciving it, I beleive so. Ill do whatever it takes to feed my family short of committing a crime even if it means swallowing my pride and asking for help once and awhile.
Do I beleive individuals receiving welfare should be able to vote??? Like many have said I beleive you should have "stakes in the game" which by the way I more than do. Your dwelling on the brim of a classification war/racist war when you touch on this subject by demeaning those that receive help and classifying them as "welfare trash" those that are not even worthy to kiss your shoes is how I feel your coming across. Whether you like it or not its a Constitutional right for everyone of the age of 18 to vote regardless of financial status.You failed to cite the 24th Amendment in your post as well. The one about being able to vote regardless if they had to pay a tax to vote. Although its evident that the system is flawed by letting those take advatage of it that dont truly deserve it and there may be no easy solution to the problem its still a right. ANd by you wanting to go against what the Constitution states and deprive those that are on SSI, EBT "Welfare", Well your just about as UN-AMERICAN as Hitler.

Now my advice to you is if you dont want me eating off your dime, then, well quit your job and stop paying taxes and paying into the system.

And I close with this one last statement:
Remember; you point one finger at me there's always three more pointing right back at you.

P.S.
That steak tasted good last night!!!!!

 

[UncleMike]

I am guessing that you aren't very old. Most people with a measure of maturity are more cautious with their assumption and also understand the concept of unintended consequences. Let me assure you that if you do see your wish come true that people can be selectively disenfranchised, you will join their ranks. You really should study up on feudalism. If you had enough money to make the cut once such a thing would start, you would complaining to the lobbyist on your payroll, not on an internet forum.

I can agree with your objection to having people vote themselves a living on our dime. On the other hand, you need to stop slamming our bricklaying neighbor. It is a safe bet that more has been paid in off of his work than he receives back. How do you reasonably complain about someone receiving back what was taken from the proceeds of his work for that very purpose?

What the rest of us do with our time is none of your business. When you start paying my bills your opinion may carry some weight. Until then, shut that hole in your face about how I use my time and resources. You may want to consider growing up. You have clearly demonstrated that you have yet to do so.

All of the above....

 

[nate77]

P.S.
That steak tasted good last night!!!!!

I bet that steak tasted good; only pork and chicken for my family, of course we don't have an EBT card.

 

[GREEN607]

I just plugged in a date. Lets just say I didnt vote for carter..... or in any election since.

AND since I cant seem to reply to uncle mike. You must be in your 80's then. I reload in the winter so I dont have to jack with it in the summer. I suppose your one of the type who has to be a "topper". Im fine with that. 6500 posts. I stand corrected. I have belonged to other forums for over a decade or more and barely break 1500. Some of us can talk all day and still say nothing worth remembering. AND I reload so I dont have get into the real stash.

FIFY

OK, I originally posted that I had nothing to say to you, because I think you're an IE troll. As is my right, I have changed my mind.

My guess is that you are actually probably about 18-20 years old, and haven't paid taxes or SS from a paycheck for more than a year or two. You probably hate that you have to work at all to support yourself....and thus your 'blanket' anger with anyone who even truly deserves the benefits they receive and/or are "owed". And here you are slamming people who have worked hard all their lives for a (hopefully) successful retirement.... and screaming that 'we' are living off your back.

You have alot of nerve, and a thousand times more gall than common sense....it is clear from your rant(s). You are the poster-boy for the "desireability" of having a new member screening system, or 'probationary' period for this forum.

My guess is that you never imagined that we INGO members in good standing.... would unite to call you out the way we have.

As far as you reloading ammo..... HA! You likely wouldn't recognize a reloading press or dies.... if they fell on you.

GO AWAY, clown!!!

 

[Shelly1582]

I bet that steak tasted good; only pork and chicken for my family, of course we don't have an EBT card.

I'm fairly certain he added the steak part simply to irritate the troll who thinks that anyone needing help should have to lick his shoes and beg for a frito out of his couch cushions to be donated.

 

[nate77]

I'm fairly certain he added the steak part simply to irritate the troll who thinks that anyone needing help should have to lick his shoes and beg for a frito out of his couch cushions to be donated.

Could be.

I just get sick of having to watch what I buy, while the person in front of me in line buys T-bones with their EBT card.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Could be.

I just get sick of having to watch what I buy, while the person in front of me in line buys T-bones with their EBT card.

You have raised a good point which requires clarification. People on the dole receive enough on their EBT cards, particularly if they have several children, that they will never be able to eat as much as they can buy, even buying things that you may well not out of the need to be frugal. The other side of the coin is that ostensibly out of efficiency, using the EBT card has blurred the line between the dole (replacing food stamps) and receiving a rebate on the proceeds of your own labor which have been taken for that very purpose (i.e., unemployment). In the latter case, for the duration of your claim, you have a total amount you may draw (deliberately capped low enough at maximum that it will frequently prevent you from being able to draw the entire amount even though you worked for it) which does not exceed what was paid in within a compact period of time (the three quarters preceding the claim if I remember correctly). As far as I am concerned, the government giving you back your own money and giving you my money are two entirely different things.

 

[findingZzero]

Seriously.

The 1st, 15th, 19th and 26th amendments deal with voting issues. IF Im not totally wrong the felons issue its a states rights issue and the 14th amendment possibly.

In my world anyone who uses or lives in section 8 housing, EBT card, WIC, or any other welfare device. Anyone who is on SS and has not reached retirement age. These people forfit their right to vote since they contribute nothing to the greater good of the nation.

Wow! I thought Goebbels died in Hitler's bunker. Welcome to America! Where were you during the Third Reich? We coulda used someone like you.

 

[AtTheMurph]

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison

Source Note:
Annals of Congress, House of Representatives, 3rd Congress, 1st Session, page 170 (1794-01-10) [3]. The Annals summarize speeches in the third person, with the actual text of Madison’s quote as follows: “Mr. Madison wished to relieve the sufferers, but was afraid of establishing a dangerous precedent, which might hereafter be perverted to the countenance of purposes very different from those of charity. He acknowledged, for his own part, that he could not undertake to lay his finger on that article in the Federal Constitution which granted a right of Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” The expense in question was for French refugees from the Haitian Revolution.

The problem is not that welfare recipients vote. The problem is that we have any government funded welfare programs at all.

The Federal Government was not given and does not have the power to be a charitable institution. That would include Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, SSI and all the other good intention-ed give aways of other people's money.

For what good cause can you say no? Our Federal Government gave over $7 billion dollars to the families of those killed in the 9-11 attack. Were those deaths more worthy of payments that the driver killed in a car accident the same day? More worthy than the murder victims family?

Who doesn't deserve the federal payout then?

The problem isn't that these people vote. It is that our Federal government has expanded it's powers to assume the role of National Charity for which there can be no end to spending.

What this does is crowd out responsible behavior. People need to plan for their own emergencies, their own retirements, their own health care rather than act irresponsibly and assume that they will be cared for on the public dole.

End the charity and you end the problem. Charity is a private decision funded by private people not forced taking of money from some to give to others. That I think is called robbery or better - PLUNDER.

 

[Dave Doehrman]

New York City is a prime example of what happens as more and more people go on welfare, families disintegrate and moral character declines. In the 50 years of study the population actually dropped a little as people moved out to the suburbs.

New York City - 1943 ........... New York City - 1993
Population - 7,472,564 .........Population - 7,322,564
Welfare cases - 73,000 .........Welfare cases - 1,200,000
Illegitimate births - 3% ........Illegitimate births - 45%
Gunshot homicides - 44 ........Gunshot homicides - 1,499

I'd like to see what happened in the 20 years since this study was conducted. Our welfare system encourages more unwanted children into single parent households and the resulting decline in morals is reflected in the huge increase in gunshot homicides.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The government, especially at the federal level, should not be engaging in acts of redistribution of wealth for ostensibly charitable reasons. It is authorized to spend tax money on a limited number of things, and this is not one of them. That said, I still see a significant difference between reclaiming one's own money and taking that of others. I further see the notion of disenfranchising people as a huge danger to the republic and a guaranteed short trip to a feudal society in which only the select few at the top enjoy any measure of freedom.

 

[Cerberus]

Though if I were to place a wager of the outcome of a reset, my money would be on it being more authoritarian--evidence seems to be the default product of us humans.

You are correct in this. I too suspect that our future is not so bright.

 

[steveh_131]

So, what about someone who works, but ends up paying zero income taxes at the end of the year? Freeloader? Or should he be allowed to vote?

 

[Bunnykid68]

So, what about someone who works, but ends up paying zero income taxes at the end of the year? Freeloader? Or should he be allowed to vote?

To pay zero income taxes one must get the earned income credit.

 

[88GT]

Ill do whatever it takes to feed my family short of committing a crime even if it means swallowing my pride and asking for help once and awhile.

Accepting the money that was confiscated by force against the consent of the individual who earned it IS a crime. Disguising it as a tax doesn't change that.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Accepting the money that was confiscated by force against the consent of the individual who earned it IS a crime. Disguising it as a tax doesn't change that.

Generally true, but in his case it is money taken from him by force and partially returned to him later. Personally, I consider the argument that his employer paid it to be irrelevant. It is money generated on his personal labor which would otherwise be available to either enhance his job security or to provide direct incentives like raises and bonuses. While I feel that the government should not be doing this, it is far different from giving him our money.

 

[steveh_131]

To pay zero income taxes one must get the earned income credit.

Not really. Once you factor in the child tax credit, I believe you can fall pretty near zero net income tax.

So? Am I a deadbeat who is not paying his fair share?

 

[steveh_131]

Accepting the money that was confiscated by force against the consent of the individual who earned it IS a crime. Disguising it as a tax doesn't change that.

I don't really buy into this. This guy didn't invent the system. He has to live under it just like the rest of us, and take the good with the bad. For now he gets some good, I see no issue with taking it.

Voting for this nonsense is most certainly theft, however.