Who says we have to let welfare trash vote?

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The danger I see here is the isolation of an unpopular group being used to establish a very dangerous precedent. I will, for the sake of rules and a pleasant discussion with all regardless of their faith or lack thereof, say that there is a reason why our founders were clear that the republic was suitable only for a morally just people, and this is a prime example. If people cannot regulate themselves, particularly regarding voting themselves money and/or advantage, there must be a counterbalancing force either in form of government or informal means. Barring that, the system destabilized exactly as it is doing right now leaving us to ask whether we will end up with a far less free society or the problem will be corrected, well, informally.

So far as I am concerned, felons who are no longer in prison should have all their rights. There is no asterisk in the Constitution with an exception for them and through the combination of it becoming accepted to demote them to a second-class citizenship and the constant criminalization of more and more activities, some of which were recognized as rights by generations past, we have a very dangerous door opening. I will also say that allowing deadbeats to vote themselves money is a danger to the republic as we were warned by its architects, but then again, mass disenfranchisement has plenty of danger of unintended consequences well beyond the prevention of multigenerational welfare dependents voting themselves more of our money. What happens when a minority acts on the realization that they pay the majority of the tax revenue and rather than demanding a more equal system of taxation demand a share of control proportionate to the taxes they pay? At that point, we have rediscovered serfdom, including for the majority of us who do indeed pay our taxes but are not in the top tax bracket.

There is no question that people who make a way of life out of gaming the system are like cockroaches, but then again it is important to remember that burning the house down will get rid of them, but it doesn't do much to improve our standard of living. Likewise, this problem needs cured, but destroying the foundation of the free republic isn't the way to do it. Never hand the government a club to use on someone else that you wouldn't want used on yourself.

Good points, Dave. I tend to agree with Prometheus' sentiments though I agree with that that total disenfranchisement of certain classes of people may be a price too high. I agree with Franklin that the most compassionate thing we can do is make the poor uncomfortable in their situation. Then through their own ingenuity find a way to support themselves.

Social Security and Medicare has been an ingenious enslavement system. As a disclaimer, it does not appear to be in the cards for me to become independently wealthy, so, in time, I'll place myself into "the system". As a freedom loving people, one that is insulted when the .gov mandates what we must or mustn't do, it's amazing that the vast majority are quite comfortable and even conditioned to the .gov telling us we must surrender a portion of our salaries for our old-age. And since most all of us are willing participants in this system and we expect to get our fair share back when it's our turn, we'll vote people in that promise to protect this system and throw those out that won't.

 

[jath08]

My only complaint is that you overlooked one critical detail. There is a difference between taking from others and receiving back the product of your own labor that was taken for the purpose at hand (i.e., paying unemployment). Especially after the unemployment tax increase a couple of years ago, I find it highly unlikely that you receive more in benefits than your employer paid out of the money you earned for him that otherwise could be contributing to a raise in your pay.

That aspect of unemployement did actually cross my mind when I was in rant mode and mentioned it.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Good points, Dave. I tend to agree with Prometheus' sentiments though I agree with that that total disenfranchisement of certain classes of people may be a price too high. I agree with Franklin that the most compassionate thing we can do is make the poor uncomfortable in their situation. Then through their own ingenuity find a way to support themselves.

Social Security and Medicare has been an ingenious enslavement system. As a disclaimer, it does not appear to be in the cards for me to become independently wealthy, so, in time, I'll place myself into "the system". As a freedom loving people, one that is insulted when the .gov mandates what we must or mustn't do, it's amazing that the vast majority are quite comfortable and even conditioned to the .gov telling us we must surrender a portion of our salaries for our old-age. And since most all of us are willing participants in this system and we expect to get our fair share back when it's our turn, we'll vote people in that promise to protect this system and throw those out that won't.

The problem I see with Franklin's advice is no inherent fault but that the government presently makes it virtually impossible to better yourself through your own ingenuity. Between tax burdens that make significant gain impossible, regulations that either create onerous burdens virtually requiring an in-house compliance department or superhuman abilities, and such loveliness as Social Security which, as you said, is tantamount to the .gov demanding that we surrender a portion of our earnings to be returned to us in old age at a loss when the same money invested properly would make a far greater return such that people receiving less than $1000/month could have been quite wealthy with the money taken from them wisely invested.

Philosophically I am right beside you and Prometheus both. I would like to find an effective way to prevent people from voting for a living, but I cannot see a way to do it while maintaining the integrity of a free society of equal citizens. My guess is that how it will eventually work out is that the S will HTF, and then when the dust settles, this problem will have ceased to exist, hopefully with the end being a reset on the republic rather than the birth of an authoritarian state.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The problem I see with Franklin's advice is no inherent fault but that the government presently makes it virtually impossible to better yourself through your own ingenuity. Between tax burdens that make significant gain impossible, regulations that either create onerous burdens virtually requiring an in-house compliance department or superhuman abilities, and such loveliness as Social Security which, as you said, is tantamount to the .gov demanding that we surrender a portion of our earnings to be returned to us in old age at a loss when the same money invested properly would make a far greater return such that people receiving less than $1000/month could have been quite wealthy with the money taken from them wisely invested.

Philosophically I am right beside you and Prometheus both. I would like to find an effective way to prevent people from voting for a living, but I cannot see a way to do it while maintaining the integrity of a free society of equal citizens. My guess is that how it will eventually work out is that the S will HTF, and then when the dust settles, this problem will have ceased to exist, hopefully with the end being a reset on the republic rather than the birth of an authoritarian state.

Though if I were to place a wager of the outcome of a reset, my money would be on it being more authoritarian--evidence seems to be the default product of us humans.

 

[Thegeek]

I've always said your voter registration should be your tax return.

 

[Harleyrider_50]

Really??? Wheres your world located at??? Pure ignorance is all I see flapping in the wind here.
Ya wanna know something???
I have a EBT card in my back pocket right now.
Ya wanna know WHY??
Ive been a union brickmason and certified welder for the past 17 years and I work extremely hard to make a living for my wife and two kids and give them what they want. I generally get to work 7 to 8 months out of the year just depends on the weather. WInter time rolls around, its generally layoff time for ALOT of fellow masons. I save all that I can over the summer months to get through the winter. Sometimes Im able to find a wintertime job welding, sometimes not. This past year was a really bad year for masonry work, which took a toll on the pocket book. If it wasnt for the deer I put in the freezer this season and that EBT card in my back pocket and what unemployment I get, my wife and KIDS wouldnt be eating right now.

You say because I have a EBT card I dont contribute to the greater of the nation?????
LEt me tell you what,, Ive worked on more Government jobsites than what you care to know. Atterbury, Ft. Benjamin Harrisson, Grissom Airforce Base. Built buildings that was used to train soldiers in combat medical skills, Barricks for them to sleep in. Waste water treatment plants so there crap has somwhere to go. Not to mention all the government funded schools I helped build so that our children could learn.
NOW tell me how I dont contribute to the greater of the nation!!!!
AND I STILL VOTE!

Someday my friend you may find yourself needing to use "Welfare" and I hope your pride doesnt get the best of you cause you may starve to death!!!

I apologize to the rest of you fine INGOers for this rant, But this subject material has always struck a chord of distain with me.

Sorry dude.......but accord'n ta the OP.....
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihd4G9XxJOc[/ame]




Pay no attn to the idiot.......my guess is?.......he's prolly milk'n the system for all it's worth........my

Be'n in the const biz my ownself,be...?... 38 yrs come this April......up until this stink economy,Carter yrs was by far the worse I've seen.....since NOW.......only time in my work'n life EVER drew unemployment.....got'a whole 116.00 bux of a maximum 124.00 at the time,LOL!...

Been self-employ'd since '96,soooo.....AIN't no un-employment chek's come'n to this house......trust me,LOL!..... It's improve'n some.....but not near quick 'nuff......if this truck ain't leave'n the drive everday.....then ya ain't eat'n,PERIOD......or nuth'n else......

Hope things improve workwise for you and yours,and best o' luck in the new year.......

 

[ChrisK]

I can understand the feelings and reasons for the OP's post but as others have posted, it would not work. I think that everyone must have "skin in the game". I don't care if it is just 1 dollar. We need to start by getting rid of EIC, you did not earn anything! Also a poll tax might be a good idea, something to look at. We need to come up with something to right this ship or we will sink and soon... As for reciving retirement income from the government for government employment , no more than 50% of your base pay period ! No boosting retirement pay by any way. As for Social Securty, most people don't understand it was set up as a form of insurance. Just as if you don't have a car wreck, you don't collect anything. If you don't need it you should not get to collect it.

 

[public servant]

 

[Jarhead77]

My understanding of SS is different than some in this thread. Old people are not robbing the young as it relates to SS. Once again, the crooks in DC took money from it to fund this or fund that. It was not left to gain interest as planned and was therefore depleted before its time. Had I been allowed to invest those dollars rather than the gov stealing it from me I'd have a much nicer retirement coming than I do.

 

[PistolBob]

We've been trolled...the OP has yet to return...and this is his 8th post.

It happens.

 

[IndyDave1776]

We've been trolled...the OP has yet to return...and this is his 8th post.

It happens.

That may well be true, but it seems to have worked out alright. It has allowed us to explore a troublesome issue which has largely been done in a productive manner, even if there is not a readily identifiable solution. That said, you never see a solution before the problem is identified (unless of course you have an agenda needing a cause that will rally people, like, say, a school shooting to afford an opportunity to pull out that anti-gun law that has been sitting in a drawer because it won't fly otherwise).

 

[poptab]

We are playing musical chairs on the titanic.

 

[IndyDave1776]

We are playing musical chairs on the titanic.

I would agree. The bottom line is that we have passed the point at which the nation's ills can be changed at the ballot box. We have too many people with a personal vested interest in continuing trends destructive to the republic and this will not change until it crashes. The one thing of which we can be assured is that those who vote for a living will drive the nation to a point at which there is no more to take.

 

[UncleMike]

We've been trolled...the OP has yet to return...and this is his 8th post.

It happens.

Yup....
Like I've said before, sites like this are prime targets for the loons at DU and Kos. They are trying to foment dissent among the members and are using the "Divide and Conquer" tactic used my the butt hole POTUS and his Mongrel Horde.

 

[Dave Doehrman]

Thank God that the founding fathers created a Constitutional Republic and not a true democracy when the Constitution and Bill of Rights were established. They knew that in a true democracy the popular vote could be swayed to overturn our rights and liberties. When society becomes so fixated on entitlement and listens to the BS the liberals are spouting, they become unable to think rationally. Their only concern is their own welfare and could care less what happens to their rights and liberties as long as they remain on the dole.

Thomas Jefferson knew this and said: :The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

This says "those who would not". It doesn't say anything about those who could not work or need assistance. I think he and others knew and were warning us of what will happen in a true democracy.

 

[wild willy]

We need only to rid ourselves of the individuals who try to make Welfare and Disability a career. There are many who need the assist, but far more that abuse it.

 

[BogWalker]

Here's an idea. As anyone who lives in a highly welfare area, you know many who abuse the system are also drug users. Why don't we institute random drug testing of government assistance drawers? If they're positive for illegal drugs take away their benefits and voting rights.

 

[yournamehere]

Actually I have been at work. My intent in the idea isnt to deny the right to vote to those who have worked a major portion of their lives. Or to those who have reached retirement. OR to those who have worked a substantial part of their lives and get hurt or sick. Veterans who have served and been honorably discharged have the right to vote for life. And anyone serving currently regardless of financial status.

Seems to have hit a nerve with the current generation who has become accustomed to being on the dole. I had buddies who worked construction for years and laughed all winter being on unemployment after working half the year. They sat in the tavern drinking beer on unemployment while I was working my ass off for crap pay. Of course they were in a union and making far more than they were worth. In 35 years of working fulltime I have collected unemployment ONCE for 2 weeks.

Seems like some of us who cry about freedom and personal responsibility have grown accustomed to the gubment teat.

My INTENT is to ask the question why do life long dead beats get to vote?

I didn’t present it as cast in stone policy, just some things that the life long lazy seem to all do.

Got a better solution like being a net tax payer? Or a property owner? Im all for any thing that gets the Obama/leftwing welfare base off the voter rolls. If you don’t contribute you don’t have a say.

And to the construction crew, that’s the job path you chose. Get a part time job doing something else even if its not what you feel is worthy of your “skills”I have done really crappy jobs in my life and would do so again if I had to. But I wont because Im skilled enough to get a job anywhere in this state or country at good pay. And ultimately the old rule of “if you cant feed ‘em, don’tbreed ‘em” seems to fit. Your kids are your responsibility just as the inner city multi-generational ones are not my responsibility. If you have to have an EBT then why do you have money for a computer and internet access? You’re welcome for my tax dollars.



As far as a low post count someone please tell me what that has to do with the price of beans in china?

I have been reading thru this site for a couple years but never registered mainly due to the type of replies I see on other posts and now, here.

I have been involved in the shooting community longer than some of the members here have been alive. Which also means nothing.

I didn’t intend to start a poop fight around here it’s the norm. Sorry to those who take offense but this country wont last much longer under the current system without reform.

 

[yournamehere]

Yup....
Like I've said before, sites like this are prime targets for the loons at DU and Kos. They are trying to foment dissent among the members and are using the "Divide and Conquer" tactic used my the butt hole POTUS and his Mongrel Horde.

6200 posts? Sorry but I have other things in life besides internet forums. Id bet I have pulle the R on a voting machine more times than you but again, thats meainingless.
Gotta go now and run the reloading press. Im one of the ones who was stocked up and prepared for the current panic buying.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Actually I have been at work. My intent in the idea isnt to deny the right to vote to those who have worked a major portion of their lives. Or to those who have reached retirement. OR to those who have worked a substantial part of their lives and get hurt or sick. Veterans who have served and been honorably discharged have the right to vote for life. And anyone serving currently regardless of financial status.

Seems to have hit a nerve with the current generation who has become accustomed to being on the dole. I had buddies who worked construction for years and laughed all winter being on unemployment after working half the year. They sat in the tavern drinking beer on unemployment while I was working my ass off for crap pay. Of course they were in a union and making far more than they were worth. In 35 years of working fulltime I have collected unemployment ONCE for 2 weeks.

Seems like some of us who cry about freedom and personal responsibility have grown accustomed to the gubment teat.

My INTENT is to ask the question why do life long dead beats get to vote?

I didn’t present it as cast in stone policy, just some things that the life long lazy seem to all do.

Got a better solution like being a net tax payer? Or a property owner? Im all for any thing that gets the Obama/leftwing welfare base off the voter rolls. If you don’t contribute you don’t have a say.

And to the construction crew, that’s the job path you chose. Get a part time job doing something else even if its not what you feel is worthy of your “skills”I have done really crappy jobs in my life and would do so again if I had to. But I wont because Im skilled enough to get a job anywhere in this state or country at good pay. And ultimately the old rule of “if you cant feed ‘em, don’tbreed ‘em” seems to fit. Your kids are your responsibility just as the inner city multi-generational ones are not my responsibility. If you have to have an EBT then why do you have money for a computer and internet access? You’re welcome for my tax dollars.



As far as a low post count someone please tell me what that has to do with the price of beans in china?

I have been reading thru this site for a couple years but never registered mainly due to the type of replies I see on other posts and now, here.

I have been involved in the shooting community longer than some of the members here have been alive. Which also means nothing.

I didn’t intend to start a poop fight around here it’s the norm. Sorry to those who take offense but this country wont last much longer under the current system without reform.

I understand what you meant. We see people driving nicer cars, nicer phones, nicer clothes than us and then they whip out that damn EBT card that they get to vote for. They give nothing to society and continue to vote for the freebies that amount to more than what some of my friends have that work their asses off.

It would be like a few INGOers coming to my house and voting on what I should be fixing for dinner.