Where would you shoot a bad guy in self defense?

[AndersonIN]

Now me...............I'd shoot them right where they stand! LOL

 

[Glock21]

This is such a valid point. You pull the trigger, you put him down. I realize that it's no laughing matter after taking a life, but you obviously had to defend yourself once. Aiming with the intent to wound is only going to leave room for sharks to pick apart your scenario.

I know from experience, that a wound to an extremity is not going to stop me from my objective. My

We have two threads right now covering similar themes, so, I'm copy/pasting my reply from the other since it applies here:

A point here about wounding vs killing, since it was brought up.

Using a firearm in defense is DEADLY FORCE. Legally, your intentions cease to matter once you press the trigger.

I'm not sure why so many fail to see this when they understand why they are shooting someone in the first place. When you are defending yourself with a gun it is because you felt a threat of death or grave bodily harm - the person attacking you is doing so with lethal force (gun, knife, other weapon, or even their size or fighting skills can justify shooting.) If they point a gun at you and make a threat, the law sees it as a lethal threat because of the potential the gun has. So, the law looks at our guns no different - when we point them at people, we are presenting lethal force, and when we shoot them, we are inflicting deadly force.

Why is this? Because no one can predict the damage a bullet will do.

You can attempt and arm or leg shot, but clipping an artery will kill.

Lethal force is lethal force. However, our motivation is never to kill a VCA [Violent Criminal Actor], it is to stop them. We are stopping their behavior with force because it is necessary that we do so NOW, and because hesitation, or a lesser means, will result in a greater injury or loss of innocent life.

You only shoot at people when lethal force is justified, and when you shoot them you do your level best to shoot them in a manner which will offer the highest probability of a cessation of their actions.

Attempting to shoot with charity is not only a contradiction, it's a great way to find yourself dead.

 

[steve666]

1st choice is center mass until the threat is ended, 2nd is best available target. I saw a quote I liked the other day though, "Two to the chest and one above the vest."

 

[theturtle06]

I have a feeling there are some good responses in this thread but I don't have time to read them now. As to where I would shoot a baddie, I'd aim COM (whether I hit there is a different story ), until the threat is negated - until he drops and is not posing direct bodily harm.

 

[Steve MI]

We have two threads right now covering similar themes, so, I'm copy/pasting my reply from the other since it applies here:

A point here about wounding vs killing, since it was brought up.

Using a firearm in defense is DEADLY FORCE. Legally, your intentions cease to matter once you press the trigger.

I'm not sure why so many fail to see this when they understand why they are shooting someone in the first place. When you are defending yourself with a gun it is because you felt a threat of death or grave bodily harm - the person attacking you is doing so with lethal force (gun, knife, other weapon, or even their size or fighting skills can justify shooting.) If they point a gun at you and make a threat, the law sees it as a lethal threat because of the potential the gun has. So, the law looks at our guns no different - when we point them at people, we are presenting lethal force, and when we shoot them, we are inflicting deadly force.

Why is this? Because no one can predict the damage a bullet will do.

You can attempt and arm or leg shot, but clipping an artery will kill.

Lethal force is lethal force. However, our motivation is never to kill a VCA [Violent Criminal Actor], it is to stop them. We are stopping their behavior with force because it is necessary that we do so NOW, and because hesitation, or a lesser means, will result in a greater injury or loss of innocent life.

You only shoot at people when lethal force is justified, and when you shoot them you do your level best to shoot them in a manner which will offer the highest probability of a cessation of their actions.

Attempting to shoot with charity is not only a contradiction, it's a great way to find yourself dead.

+1

most talk few will train i these area's head shooter i laugh at often

here is your situation the shooting have begun the witness are allover the place i phone recording it or sec camera and you deliver your controlled pair to the com then decide wella BB shot is a great idea....Not you have now been labeled an assassin because he was going down or going to die but you put a final shot in the ocular cavity and its on liveleak beofre the lawyer even gets there>

there is a time and place to deliver a ocular shot when that's all you can see say over a store clothing rack etc....

tme and ,money rapid burst of rounds that sound like 1 shot i demo this in class often 90% of the class couldn't give me an accurate round count thats what i want the witness to say as well

fast aggressive decisive action to end it now.

as for shooting legs and arms yes they have there place if you have to ask you haven't trained enough

 

[slamer283]

if close def. a head shot. but most likely the chest. with a .45 hollow point, your going down. always, and i mean always shoot twice.

 

[Steve MI]

if close def. a head shot. but most likely the chest. with a .45 hollow point, your going down. always, and i mean always shoot twice.

WRONG...... due some homework your not always going down with 45

there was a recent cases n which an Off duty officer was shot 5 times with a 45 once in the face 4 in the ab and chest and leg he one the fight with a 9mm


another involved a Georgia shooting in which a task force shot the suspect in the head/face with a ump 45 firing golden sabers he lived the round pearced the left side of his face and exited behind his ear

another case was an new orleans officer attacked and shot his attacker 5 rounds of 45 then another in the face while they kept fighting an passer by shot the suspect in the head contact shot and killed him.... dont mistake a wonder caliber for a stopper because its 45 or any other

 

[mk2ja]

WRONG...... due some homework your not always going down with 45

there was a recent cases n which an Off duty officer was shot 5 times with a 45 once in the face 4 in the ab and chest and leg he one the fight with a 9mm


another involved a Georgia shooting in which a task force shot the suspect in the head/face with a ump 45 firing golden sabers he lived the round pearced the left side of his face and exited behind his ear

another case was an new orleans officer attacked and shot his attacker 5 rounds of 45 then another in the face while they kept fighting an passer by shot the suspect in the head contact shot and killed him.... dont mistake a wonder caliber for a stopper because its 45 or any other

Sources? Claims without sources are like screen doors on submarines.

Also, grammar and punctuation? It would be a heck of a lot easier to read if you would slow down and take a moment to write according to the rules you learned in grade school. Please?

 

[MyGlockRocks19]

Ideally, COM. I imagine a situation in which I would have to defend myself with a firearm would likely be a tense, frightening experience, not one in which I would have a chance to calmly choose my point of aim. I train for COM, as it presents the largest target available, and contains most of the vital organs.

 

[dross]

1. Grip tightly.
2. Focus on the front sight like you're drowning and it's a flotation device.
3. Center the front sight on the scary man.
4. Pull the trigger until the scary man drops from your line of vision.
5. Lower your eyes to focus on the scary man's new location.
6. Ask yourself: Is the scary man still moving?
If yes: Repeat numbers 1 through 6.
If no: Call 911 and your lawyer, in that order.

Note: Reload as required to perform the above steps.

 

[Glock21]

Here's a couple:

http://www.wcjb.com/news/3846/update-on-34th-street-shooting

"Lt. Hansen had to fire multiple gun shots at Weeks because Weeks kept coming and investigators confirmed by the location of the spent shells.

“There were multiple shots fired. Weeks was struck multiple times but what forensically we are starting to see is the shots did not stop him. He kept advancing on Lt. Hansen and that would explain the multiple shots,” said Lt. Keith Kameg."


http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/articles/lom/0412/the_peter_soulis_incident.html

"Remarkably, Palmer had taken 22 hits from Soulis' .40-caliber Glock, 17 of which had hit center mass. Despite the fact that the weapon had been loaded with Ranger SXTs—considered by many to be one of the best man-stoppers available—Palmer lived for more than four minutes after the last shot was fired. His autopsy revealed nothing more than a small amount of alcohol in his bloodstream."

 

[Roadie]

I practice triple tap. 2 in the chest and 1 in the head. I cant say for certain thats what I would do in the heat of the moment, but its what I practice.

Ah, the Mozambique drill ...

I think in the heat of the moment, trying for a certain specific part of the body would be counterproductive. So center of mass...

 

[rhino]

The pedant in me has force me to comment.

First, many are stating "center of mass." I think most have the right idea, but it's not the center of mass. The center of mass of an average adult human male is in the abdomen. For a female, it's lower. Both of those are okay targets too, but you'll likely have better results if you can get hits higher on the chest along the midline of the body (facing forward).

As Glock21 alluded, it will be unsual for you to have a full frontal view of an assailant, especially one that is standing still. If you have that kind of shot, the "high center chest" is probably the best place to try to hit. This is distinctly higher on a human body than the center of mass.

Under most circumstances, you're probably going to have to aim for the biggest piece of meat and bones that is available to you. That's the best you can do.

Also note that the angle at which your assailant is facing you can dramatically change the necessary point of impact to inflict a decent wound. What is a great hit when facing the front won't penetrate very far if the person has his torso bladed toward you. Understanding that human are 3-dimensional is the first step in understanding where you need to place your shots.

Here are some other facts:

1. Nothing you can hold in your hands is guaranteed to stop an aggressor before they can hurt or kill you. Handguns in particular (even the venerable .45ACP) are puny and pathetic. Over 95% of people shot in the US survive, including suicide attempts. The only redeeming feature of handguns is that we can have them with us all the time (or nearly so).

2. Shot placement is essential, but even perfect shot placement is not a guarantee. You have to keep moving and keep firing until the threat is eliminated in some manner or until you run out of ammunition. NO ONE CAN PREDICT HOW MANY SHOTS IT WILL TAKE STOP A GIVEN THREAT. NO ONE.

3. Human threats are stopped if you can destroy or sufficiently damage the central nervous system, if they bleed enough for them to lose the ability to continue due to lowered blood pressure, mobility is eliminated, or they simply choose to stop (aka a "psychological stop"). The only immediate stop is to destroy the medulla oblongata (brain stem). Even a shot through the brain isn't always effective if the brain stem is not hit. The medulla is small and not an easy target to hit due to being encased in armor, it's size, and movement.

 

[2cool9031]

Head shot...he might be wearing a bullet proof vest. I would shoot to kill...one man standing...one story of how it happened.

 

[Steve MI]

Sources? Claims without sources are like screen doors on submarines.

Also, grammar and punctuation? It would be a heck of a lot easier to read if you would slow down and take a moment to write according to the rules you learned in grade school. Please?

do the leg work, i have all ready given you the clues,

facts and sources let see in the over few hundred hours of formal training. I have met many who survived these shootings including the mentioned fla.office, I have about a few hundred of these types of reports on file,

you want links look them up. google is your friend and training is an even bigger one

amateurs debate calibers, professionals debate mindset and techniques

the key is not caliber the key is your ability to perform on demand cold and at no notice not after a few warm up mags on the square range

anytime i hear the internet chatter of the 35404445 magnum stopper I laugh

 

[rhino]

Some may not choose to believe it's a reliable souce, but the book Blackhawk Down relates one incident from the Battle of Mogadishu wherein an older Somali man was hit eight times with 7.62x51mm from an M-60 and was still moving.

 

[Steve MI]

yes that was very true......

also heard of others along that line up ma ny refuse to believe that we have seen 45,9mm 308 223 and 12 gauge slugs deflect off baseball cap brims any whom have ahd randy cains class has seen this

 

[Marc]

YouTube - How to shoot a "double tap".

 

[rhino]

yes that was very true......

also heard of others along that line up ma ny refuse to believe that we have seen 45,9mm 308 223 and 12 gauge slugs deflect off baseball cap brims any whom have ahd randy cains class has seen this

Louis Awerbuck mentions the ballcap brim deflection during every class when the moving 3-d targets come out. The 12ga slug deflection has happened at Boone Co. during classes more than once.

Which suggests I should make a suit from ballcap with the brims facing outward to serve as body armor. Heh.

 

[Chow40cal]

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/articles/lom/0412/the_peter_soulis_incident.html

"Remarkably, Palmer had taken 22 hits from Soulis' .40-caliber Glock, 17 of which had hit center mass. Despite the fact that the weapon had been loaded with Ranger SXTs—considered by many to be one of the best man-stoppers available—Palmer lived for more than four minutes after the last shot was fired. His autopsy revealed nothing more than a small amount of alcohol in his bloodstream."

An amazing account of an officer with superb training, a strong sense of duty, and a true dedication to protecting the public. We should all be so fortunate to have officers(or any steward of the public) go so far to eliminate a true threat to the safety of innocent civilians.

Stories like this, often fall on deaf ears after being filtered through the media and spun wildly out of control. To think, we have soldiers doing this every day as well, and our government is worried about rubbing everyone the wrong way.

Thank you for presenting this heroic account, I know I will reference it many times in the future when talking with others.