When is a low offer insulting to you?

[target64]

I am fairly new here and do not have a vast amount of knowledge in what is considered the Current Market Values of firearms. In fact I have made "Used Purchases" on here only to find the same item NIB at a local store for cheaper. I cannot get upset with the seller because I made the deal, and it appeared good to me. If I find an item listed with a "Firm Price" I will either move forward, or move on. If there is an item listed with a "Sale Price", My first pm will ask for their bottom dollar, If it meets MY perceived value, and with in my budget I move forward, if not I move on. My questions are not meant to offend nor lowball.

 

[Mike G]

Interesting thread. From a buyers point of view I would point out that many items sold here and at other forums tend to start out at one price, then drop to a new price when there is no interest or offers do not meet the sellers expectation. Items that are priced appropriately tend to move rather quickly and there is not much time to try and negotiate with the seller to get a better sale price. It is easy for buyers to spot an item that is not moving and probably encourages the buyer to try and make an offer that the seller might be agreeable to. From my point of view, when an item shows no interest from other buyers, this is the time to try and negotiate the best deal possible for an item. The seller should not be offended by a low offer, obviously the price is not agreeable to buyers if there is no obvious interest in the item. But, if the seller can justify his\her price for the item, then the buyer should be respectful of that and walk away if the price is not what they are willing to pay. Firm should mean firm to the buyer.
I would also agree that it is a game between the buyer and seller, and like it or not, the goal is to see what is the best price one or the other can get for the item.
I would also point out that the market for items, especially gun related items is sometimes tough to figure out. You can look around at different web sites to try and determine what a "going price" is, but often these prices can be all over the board. So I try to find a general price for an item I might be looking for and try to stay within that price range if possible. My price range may be different from the sellers, but if negotiable, we may be able to meet in the middle so both parties walk away satisfied. Just my .

 

[techres]

My point is. so what if you offer way low. All it takes is a no. No reason to get huffy over a low ball price. It's just business.

And there is the rub. For you it is business. Buying a house is such for everyone. But for many here, the sale of firearms and gear is not business and the "getting huffy" is the response to the buyer's assumption that this is business or gaming.

I started this thread with a "let's all just get along" view that I still maintain. You see a price that you don't like - move on. You get an offer you don't like - move on.

But there's still the nagging problem of assuming a seller is "upping the price" and offering unreal offers is "just business". Both of those are frustrating to me because they prove that people cannot just trust each other, that people are playing silly money/power games, and that the reality is that we are all happy to jerk each other around because the $ is more than the person. Why? Because "it is just business".

Assumed Game.
Assumed Gamer.
Assumed Rules.
Assumed Results.
Assumed Values.
Assumed, assumed, assumed.

I guess I find it all rather disappointing.

 

[notasccrmom]

I don't get being insulted because someone offers less money than what the seller believes it is worth. Why take it so personally? Unless you're selling your body or something you made with your own hands, I'm not understanding why so much pride is involved in an object that you own.

My thoughts exactly. If they aren't willing to pay what I'm asking or very near to it, then no big deal. Someone else will want it more. No need to take it personally.

 

[exile]

I only find it annoying when the member lowballing is one that is easily recognizable as the guy that has Extremely high prices in the for sale section on guns & ammo + you know that he is only buying it so he can try and rape a less informed ingo member.

 

[BE Mike]

I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not generally desperate for cash so when I have something for sale I usually stick pretty close to the asking price. If it doesn't sell, it is no big deal. There seem to be a lot of lowballers in the Hoosier state. I think that they are amusing. I've had people make a lowball offer and when I accepted they backed away. Like someone else posted, I think that some of these unsophisticated rubes are just playing a power game and are really not that interested in buying, unless it is to turn a profit. I don't get upset by offers, but I don't like the ones who ask, "What's your best price?" and then when given a lower price, offer a significantly lower price still. These people are nitwits and I'm sure that they eventually run into a fool who will part with something for a song.

As a buyer, yes I'm interested in getting a fair price or a bargain. I try to not insult the intelligence of the seller when making an offer. I usually know about what I'm willing to pay for something and if someone wants to sell something too cheaply, the red flags come up. I don't want to buy stolen property.

Some folks don't have a clue as to the worth of "grandad's" firearm, and most of the time they think that they are sitting on their retirement nestegg. I usually just move along. I don't want to be the one to burst their bubble. I take no satisfaction from that. I probably couldn't sleep at night if I took advantage of a widow or someone desperate for cash, unless I told them that the firearm, etc. that they had for sale was worth much more that I could pay. If they go into the deal with all the facts and then are willing to sell far below the going price, then that is ok by me.

 

[joslar15]

For some reason, a "lowball offer" seems to be viewed as a bad thing, when actually, it shows there is interest. I think part of the problem lies with the seller making assumptions regarding the "intent" behind the offer, such as, "this guy thinks I'm trying to gouge him," or, "this guy must think I'm an idiot to consider 50% of my asking price."

My thinking is that the buyer's intent makes no difference to me as a seller. The important thing for me, as a seller, is I know I set a fair price. Interest has been shown. Am I confident enough to know that it will sell at my ask price, given a few hours or a day or so? Yes. Which is more important to me, turn my item quickly to move on something else and negotiate, or wait to get my price?

What difference does it make to me if someone offers me less than what I want? The only real cost to me, if it is so ridiculous as to not even deserve a response, is the few seconds it took for me to read and delete the PM.

 

[Scout]

Just because something cost X, Y years ago doesn't mean X is the current value. I looked at a HK SP89 a few months back, they could be had for $1500-2000 in their day. The shop had $5500, an average price, but did I offer them $1500?? Hell no, why? Because I can accept rising prices with supply and demand.

I guess my point is why offer someone something you should know is a ridiculously low amount unless you're good with the lottery or want to insult someone.

Of course it goes the other way, too. I've run into people selling paintball stuff that costs $1000 or more 5 or 6 years ago, but now is worth ~$300. Guess what he wanted to sell it for... I told him good luck with that. and he said "If it sells, it sells, if not I'll keep it until it does."



If someone wants to haggle, do like my brother and I do. "You want to haggle? Ok, I start with (2x price), you counter with $1, we close at (original price). Bring cash."

 

[Steven]

Over the years I've sold a lot of unwanted stuff, cars, land , firearms, firewood, lawnmowers, ect, ect.
I've learned as soon as I put up the sign or run an ad I'll get a lot of:

Tire Kickers, most are nice people , just looking for someone to talk to.

Low Ballers, maybe they are nice , or not, I just ignore them. I've already raised my kids and don't have time to raise other peoples kids, just ignore them, can't change other people, but at the same time you don't have to pay attention to them, just ignore them and start taking about the weather or something.

One in hundred ( or what ever number ) that says I'll take it !!! That's the one I'm looking for. Sometimes that person comes along first thing or maybe the last one after a hundred. Thats the one worth waiting for.

or less.

 

[cordex]

I don't know ... I'm not much of a haggler, but if there's something I'm interested in and the price is a little bit above what I'm willing to pay, I'll ask them if that's the best they can do. I pay asking price more often than not but I don't think it is wrong to see if someone can do a little better.

I think it is a mistake to assign a universal intent to hagglers or non-hagglers. To me, haggling done right is about determining the value of an item to two different people. If that value is not in line with both of their expectations, the deal doesn't happen. If it does, it happens and both parties are happy.

If you like to haggle, haggle away but take a hint when someone says that they are firm on the price. If you don't haggle, that's fine and dandy too.

 

[public servant]

I agree, except I've dealt with some people who won't buy unless they get the price down some, whether $5 or $100. I never know who I'll deal with so I anticipate all types. If I started at my exact price they'd want it less, sometimes that single person may be the only person who'd buy.

And if they are the only person who would buy and you sell it for their offer...then that's all it's worth.

If I have something that I ask $500 for and the only offer I get is $250...then that's all it's worth...if I want to sell...here at least. It may be time to re-evaluate your asking price, take it to another market or keep it. Perhaps a low-ball offer is coming from someone looking for a deal in times where money may be short on the seller's part.

I don't see a reason to be insulted over it. Turn them down and move on. If the cash is a need on your part...hang out as long as you can and hope for a better offer. Then again, is your asking price too high? Just because you owned it does not make it worth twice the market value. If you're inflating your asking price because of a frenzied market, that's no better than a low-ball offer. Research your asking price and mark it up a few bucks for some wiggle room if need be. Just know your bottom dollar price.

If you put "firm" in the ad the only way I'd make a lower offer is if I could justify it by saying...look, there are 3 of these on gunbroker.com for only $XXX or I can get this at Bradis for $XXX. Sell it or keep it....then have a beer.

 

[CarmelHP]

But there's still the nagging problem of assuming a seller is "upping the price" and offering unreal offers is "just business". Both of those are frustrating to me because they prove that people cannot just trust each other, that people are playing silly money/power games, and that the reality is that we are all happy to jerk each other around because the $ is more than the person. Why? Because "it is just business".

Assumed Game.
Assumed Gamer.
Assumed Rules.
Assumed Results.
Assumed Values.
Assumed, assumed, assumed.

I guess I find it all rather disappointing.

Trust each other for what, that the price is fair, who determines that? The buyer does. That's how a market works. If a seller doesn't like what is offered say no. If you think it's game and don't like it, then just don't play. No use complaining about it.

 

[Michiana]

Often a price is set by how much you have in it.

I alway try to make at least 10% on any firearm I sell. Being a FFL I do quite a few transfers for $20 for one and $10 each for a second or third at the same time. If I purchase a gun for $300 dealer cost and mark it up 10% I am getting only $10 more than if I let the customer buy the weapon himself and I do the transfer for him. That $30 is now taxable income and if I am in the 30% tax bracket I am now down to $21 profit. This is not factoring in the cost involved in financing the purchase and putting my money out. In reality a 10% markup is really not enough, 20% is more realistic.

I've had people want me to drive 30 miles to sell them a $20 mag I paid $16 for with shipping. Being in business I have to collect IN sales tax and that involves additional paperwork. Some people think they are being ripped off having to pay sales tax but that is the law and I don't care for it any more than my customers.

I just had a guy email me concerning a rifle I have listed on Gunbroker. I have it marked up $40 which helps me cover the listing cost. After all my expenses I will make about the same as a transfer; this guy offered me thirty dollars less than I have it listed for and I would make $10 on the transaction if I took his offer. After I paid for the listing I would make two dollars. Of course I said thanks but no thanks. All this guy would have to do is look at similar listings for this same rifle to see I am already the lowest priced. You can't get upset with these types of people because they may come back tomorrow and give you your asking price or buy your next item with no bartering.

A fair price is what a willing buyer and willing seller agree on; seems logical to me. The market sets the price and you either pay that price or sell at that price or you hold off until the market changes to your benefit.

 

[Duce]

I will not set the price on someone elses stuff.....I nearly always ask "What's your bottom dollar?". If I feel the price is unfair, I move on with a polite "Thanks".
Some seem to think of buying and selling as a competitive thing, it's not. I knew a shop owner that had a knack at raping some customers, cause he knew how to play on their competitive nature. Worse case was a LEO with a nearly new Pyhthon 4" traded for a L frame Smith and gave cash. At the time Pythons listed for about 25% more than the Smith.
On the flip side once worked for a shop owner that wanted to be a nice guy, seemed like he'd let some name their own price!!!! He lasted less than a year, everyone has a right to fair profit.....................................<>< Duce

 

[dice dealer]

About the only way id consider it anything like an insult is if i have something for sale lets say for $300 , they PM me or post in the thread ,"I'll give ya $100 if you can deliver 100 miles from were you are located " ...

Then i only consider it an insult to everyones intelligence ..

And a waste of everyones time