What are your SHTF firearms?

[45-70]

You need different tools for different jobs. Given all the possible shtf scenarios, a large selection of arms to choose from would be the ideal.

 

[gunowner930]

Funny how the guy in green wants to down play a rifle used in uprisings.

So instead of highlighting the merits of the Mosin compared to modern semi-auto rifles or explaining how a Mosin equipped with iron sights is superior to a .308 Remington 700 with iron sights, you take a shot at the guy in green. Which recent violent uprisings have included untrained guys with Mosins defeating well-trained professional soldiers with select fire rifles, crew served weapons, artillery, and air support? But, then again we're talking SHTF, not revolution.

In a shtf situation any gun that goes boom will do just fine.

Well hell a pocket pistol chambered in .25 ACP goes boom, that doesn't make it an effective defensive weapon, especially if you're thinking about a breakdown in the rule of law. If the Mosin is all you have, then you have to make it work, it just cannot stack up to modern rifles, nor should it be expected to. The Mosin is bolt-action battle rifle designed in the late 19th century.

The mosin is a great shtf weapon. Ambush will be the greatest assult tactic!

WHY is the Mosin a great SHTF weapon when considering the availablity of other options? If SHTF were to occur I'd plan on using my firearms in a defensive manner. Who in the blue hell are you going to be ambushing? Will it be you or you and your buddies ambushing people?

Direct responses in red



Mosin as a battle rifle compared to alternatives like the FN FAL, M1A, AR, AK, etc.

pros

-powerful 7.62x54R cartridge (when compared to 7.62x39 or 5.56x45)
-durable

cons

-weight
-length
-ergonomics
-limited ammunition capacity
-slow reloads
-high recoil, which constributes to slower follow-up shots and slower target transition
-bolt action

 

[Sailor]

Are you actually arguing that the nagant is anywhere near the battle rifle that the garand was? Where is the Nagant used as a sniper rifle or standard infantry rifle today? I honestly dont know.

If the nagant is used as a standard issue rifle today, its because the country that is using it doesnt have the money to replace it with an existing rifle or the money to R&D their own replacement. It is not because it is a superior rifle. That is a FACT.

You better a wheelbarrow to your preps. Sounds like you are going to filling it up with nagants!

 

[Socomike]

Funny how the guy in green wants to down play a rifle used in uprisings.

Its funny how the guy in green (assuming that is me) is down playing a rifle used in uprisings? Are you completely ignoring everything I have said? I have highlighted the reasons the mosin is NOT a good choice when other rifles are available. The mosin has been successful in aiding uprising around the world where they were uprising against an equally equipped or under trained force. The mosin is a liability today when there are better rifles out there for very reasonable money. SKS's and AK 47's have been used in uprisings and are LEAGUES better of an option then a mosin. Both can be had for 150-400 dollars these days.

In a shtf situation any gun that goes boom will do just fine.

This is possibly the most ridiculous things I have read in this thread, and that is saying a lot. "Any gun that goes boom is better then no gun" would be appropriate. With your logic I could go grab a 16th or 17th century English blunderbuss and I would do "just fine".

Give me a break. SHTF is not a video game. It is survival of the fittest, and only the strong will survive, to quote a few cliches. Any piece of hardware that gives you an advantage over every other guy out there, is an advantage that you want. The mosin becomes a liability when chosen over a better rifle.

The mosin is a great shtf weapon.

The mosin is a bad shtf weapon but may do in a pinch when nothing else is available.

Ambush will be the greatest assault tactic!

Who exactly are we ambushing here? Have you ever conducted a real ambush? I have completely designed an ambush based on overhead maps, aerial recon, and prior recon of the area on foot. Even with all of that recon, the ambush did not go exactly as I planned. Things would have gotten more hairy then it did had I had to reload every 5 rounds and work a bolt between every shot.

If the SHTF situation lasted so long that I had resorted to ambushing people to steal their resources, I DAMN SURE want something more then a Mosin Nagant. I want firepower that is at least 5 times more then what they have. If I dont have that advantage, I wait for a softer target so I dont risk myself, my family, or my friends.

Replies in Blue so it is not confused with Gunowner's in red.

I am still waiting on someone to give me some pro's to carrying a Mosin in a combat situation. Once I get some, I would also like like that person to compare the pro's to an SKS.

 

[WETSU]

I think for giggles I'd like to video my crew doing a react to contact, vehicle bailout drill using all 1891 Mosin Nagants. Then do it with our regular inferior AKs and ARs.

 

[Socomike]

I think for giggles I'd like to video my crew doing a react to contact, vehicle bailout drill using all 1891 Mosin Nagants. Then do it with our regular inferior AKs and ARs.

Haha please do. I have been talking with a friend about running some react to contact drills, all timed, multiple target with reloads, at distances between 50-200meters with the Mosin and then with my AR. We would film these and post the results here. Im thinking that the AR would embarrass the Mosin in every category. However, even with the results posted here, I would be accused of down playing the mosins history and still not get a single pro or con to using it.

 

[Zoub]

I am still waiting on someone to give me some pro's to carrying a Mosin in a combat situation. Once I get some, I would also like like that person to compare the pro's to an SKS.

They will think your F'n nuts and even loonier then the guys with Highpoint PCR's so chances are you will be left alone.

Nobody ignores a motivated individual carrying an SKS.

 

[Zoub]

I think for giggles I'd like to video my crew doing a react to contact, vehicle bailout drill using all 1891 Mosin Nagants. Then do it with our regular inferior AKs and ARs.

Yeah, its already been done. As you can see here, the excess weight of the Mosins had a negative impact on the team.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gecm0Ly7Zss

 

[WETSU]

Okay Socomike, I'll give you some reasons the Mosin is a superior weapon in modern combat.

You can club someone with it.

It has a really long bayonet. Grossman said that all the real killing starts happening when your enemy is routed at bayonet point.

The 1891/bayonet combo is a good mine probe. Decent standoff, probably wouldn't even need to call EOD.

You can run your radio arial up the rifle and get some height.

If you have enough guys with Mosins, they can strip some 7.62x54R rounds from their clips and give them to the PKM B gunner to load into the belt and keep the real killing going.

You can buy API for a Mosin at gunshows making it a poor man's Cheytac 408 anti material rifle.

The cartridge is BIGGER than the 5.56 or 7.62 x39.

If you still live with your parents, you can buy a Mosin and a spam can of ammo for $150 and still have money left over for Cheetos.

 

[Zoub]

The nagant is still used today as a sniper rifle and a standard infantry rifle is the garand?

You can't compare weapon choices of a society that does not place value on the life of an individual to one that prefers its soldiers survive.

Buy once cry once, or buy a lot of body bags and shovels

 

[Gamez235]

My head hurts now.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Okay Socomike, I'll give you some reasons the Mosin is a superior weapon in modern combat.

You can club someone with it.

It has a really long bayonet. Grossman said that all the real killing starts happening when your enemy is routed at bayonet point.

The 1891/bayonet combo is a good mine probe. Decent standoff, probably wouldn't even need to call EOD.

Don't forget how good it is at batoning. Nothing is tactical unless it can baton well.

 

[Socomike]

Okay Socomike, I'll give you some reasons the Mosin is a superior weapon in modern combat.

You can club someone with it.

It has a really long bayonet. Grossman said that all the real killing starts happening when your enemy is routed at bayonet point.

The 1891/bayonet combo is a good mine probe. Decent standoff, probably wouldn't even need to call EOD.

You can run your radio arial up the rifle and get some height.

If you have enough guys with Mosins, they can strip some 7.62x54R rounds from their clips and give them to the PKM B gunner to load into the belt and keep the real killing going.

You can buy API for a Mosin at gunshows making it a poor man's Cheytac 408 anti material rifle.

The cartridge is BIGGER than the 5.56 or 7.62 x39.

If you still live with your parents, you can buy a Mosin and a spam can of ammo for $150 and still have money left over for Cheetos.

Don't forget how good it is at batoning. Nothing is tactical unless it can baton well.

All are good reasons to choose it over a modern carbine or battle rifle.

In all seriousness though, a mosin is about as useful as a primary shtf rifle as a 9mm carbine is at defending wide open, flat terrain. If its all you have, it will have to do. If there is an opportunity to use something better, by all means..

 

[dhnorris]

dr quinn medicine woman in case i get sick

I would want Dr. Quinn when I was HEALTHY

 

[WETSU]

Okay, all silliness aside. To some extent, its the man, not the gun, But having a modern firearm, that is up to the task and equal in currently available firepower is a really good idea. If your enemy has semi automatic rifles feeding from 30 round magazines, then it would be good if you had one too.

I have seen people justify about all types of guns for SHTF, especially the Ruger 10/22. That happens so often its become a joke. I get why the Mosin is nifty. I have 3 of them. They are cool old smoke poles, and they are fun and cheap to shoot. Did they kill their share of humans back in the day? Yep. So did a long bow. And a club.

So, without getting into a Ford v. Chevy thing, lets get something straight. If you are talking about FIGHTING in a post SHTF scenario then you need a serious fighting weapon, you need the skills and tactics to use it and most importantly, you need the mindset. This whole Mosin thing tells me the poster's lack of proper mindset. Not reality based. Having a gun is not enough. Not when you are fighting for your life.

I want a rifle that can dump a 30 round mag in 10 seconds, one that fires a round that will reach out to 500 meters and still kill a man. One that has a round that will penetrate auto body work, cinder block, 2x4s, plaster walls, steel doors, laminated glass, body armor and can do it fast. It has to be reliable, and not finicky with ammo, or gas settings. It has to be accurate, minute of man at 300 is good for me with irons. 500 with a 4x scope, and beyond that, I'll use my bolt gun. It has to be rugged, able to go without a cleaning. I have to be able to swim with it, drag it through the snow and mud and have to be able to deploy it from a vehicle when seated behind the wheel. I have to be able to use it to clear a structure.

My SHTF rifle has to have ALL of these characteristics. Not just some. ALL of them. There are guns out there that will do all of this. The Mosin is not one of them, nor is any kind of .22.

 

[irishfan]

Okay, all silliness aside. To some extent, its the man, not the gun, But having a modern firearm, that is up to the task and equal in currently available firepower is a really good idea. If your enemy has semi automatic rifles feeding from 30 round magazines, then it would be good if you had one too.

I have seen people justify about all types of guns for SHTF, especially the Ruger 10/22. That happens so often its become a joke. I get why the Mosin is nifty. I have 3 of them. They are cool old smoke poles, and they are fun and cheap to shoot. Did they kill their share of humans back in the day? Yep. So did a long bow. And a club.

So, without getting into a Ford v. Chevy thing, lets get something straight. If you are talking about FIGHTING in a post SHTF scenario then you need a serious fighting weapon, you need the skills and tactics to use it and most importantly, you need the mindset. This whole Mosin thing tells me the poster's lack of proper mindset. Not reality based. Having a gun is not enough. Not when you are fighting for your life.

I want a rifle that can dump a 30 round mag in 10 seconds, one that fires a round that will reach out to 500 meters and still kill a man. One that has a round that will penetrate auto body work, cinder block, 2x4s, plaster walls, steel doors, laminated glass, body armor and can do it fast. It has to be reliable, and not finicky with ammo, or gas settings. It has to be accurate, minute of man at 300 is good for me with irons. 500 with a 4x scope, and beyond that, I'll use my bolt gun. It has to be rugged, able to go without a cleaning. I have to be able to swim with it, drag it through the snow and mud and have to be able to deploy it from a vehicle when seated behind the wheel. I have to be able to use it to clear a structure.

My SHTF rifle has to have ALL of these characteristics. Not just some. ALL of them. There are guns out there that will do all of this. The Mosin is not one of them, nor is any kind of .22.

I like my AR's fine and the AK is an amazing platform but I really don't know if I would choose it as my rifle over my 10/22 but that is my choice entirely. However, my intentions may be far different then yours. I have no intentions of clearing a building unless I absolutely have to or engaging anyone 500yds away. Personally, I would rather stay unseen and never heard and just keep moving when possible. However, my 10/22 also is not a stock 10/22 and hopefully when my stamp gets here it will be good to go. Finally, if I have to resort to nothing but my 10/22 it means my original plans have been FUBAR'd and I am on my own which means it will be a time to rethink a lot of my plans.

 

[WETSU]

Irish, trust me, your original plans will always be FUBAR'd.

 

[Socomike]

I like my AR's fine and the AK is an amazing platform but I really don't know if I would choose it as my rifle over my 10/22 but that is my choice entirely. However, my intentions may be far different then yours. I have no intentions of clearing a building unless I absolutely have to or engaging anyone 500yds away. Personally, I would rather stay unseen and never heard and just keep moving when possible. However, my 10/22 also is not a stock 10/22 and hopefully when my stamp gets here it will be good to go. Finally, if I have to resort to nothing but my 10/22 it means my original plans have been FUBAR'd and I am on my own which means it will be a time to rethink a lot of my plans.

I love my (my wife's actualy) 10/22 and am getting ready to build one for my son that should be born tomorrow morning. There is a very real use for a reliable .22 caliber rifle in a SHTF situation. That use only grows the longer the SHTF goes and the wider the area affected is.

I do not trust my life to it, and I place it in the "tool" category personally. It is just like a shovel, knife, etc. It is there to do a job when I need it. My AR is still a tool, but more of a companion. Anyone that has been to combat will understand this. It is always within arms reach. You can trust it to protect you from people or animals as long as you do your part. It is reliable beyond a doubt. If it is in your hands, you automatically feel better about any situation in which you find yourself. It is hard to explain in words and im sure there are jokes to be made here.

All that aside, there are a myriad of rifles on today's market that one could trust their life and their families life to. One only needs to buy said rifle, buy lots of ammo, train relentlessly with the rifle and build that relationship. If that rifle is a Mosin or a 10/22 for you then im happy for you. However, I think there is MUCH left on the table with those choices and Joe Schmoe that wants to take your **** during SHTF may have chosen to do the same with a rifle that vastly out classes yours. I am not willing to take that chance.

Mike

 

[Gamez235]

I like my AR's fine and the AK is an amazing platform but I really don't know if I would choose it as my rifle over my 10/22 but that is my choice entirely. However, my intentions may be far different then yours. I have no intentions of clearing a building unless I absolutely have to or engaging anyone 500yds away. Personally, I would rather stay unseen and never heard and just keep moving when possible. However, my 10/22 also is not a stock 10/22 and hopefully when my stamp gets here it will be good to go. Finally, if I have to resort to nothing but my 10/22 it means my original plans have been FUBAR'd and I am on my own which means it will be a time to rethink a lot of my plans.

I would rather have something more than a 10/22 to rewrite my FUBAR'd plans.

You've never seen a rebel fighter in a 3rd world country using a 10/22. Typically they are using a mid-size caliber semi auto, more often than not, a member of the AK family. They are living SHTF in condition that offer, little food, little water, **** poor medical care. I'd almost go out to venture a guess that if we went to them with a bright shiny 10/22 with 1000rds of ammo, Arsenal Refinished Nagant with a 440 round of ammo, or an Beat up AK with a few mags... They'd take the AK.

 

[Socomike]

I would rather have something more than a 10/22 to rewrite my FUBAR'd plans.

You've never seen a rebel fighter in a 3rd world country using a 10/22. Typically they are using a mid-size caliber semi auto, more often than not, a member of the AK family. They are living SHTF in condition that offer, little food, little water, **** poor medical care. I'd almost go out to venture a guess that if we went to them with a bright shiny 10/22 with 1000rds of ammo, Arsenal Refinished Nagant with a 440 round of ammo, or an Beat up AK with a few mags... They'd take the AK.

11/10 they take the AK.