VW Scandal. How Does this Happen?

[melensdad]

I live in IN where there is emissions testing.

I guess we can wait and see, but it's not that much data. Every VW dealership in the country can instantly access whether any VW anywhere has had a recall fix. Not hard at all. Up here, it's really easy to deny plates for a vehicle that has not passed a test, but this would not even require a test, just a note tagged to the VIN that it has not completed the recall.

Indiana would have to rewite it regulations because right now the affected cars are EXEMPT from testing.

Further, its really a non-issue since those diesel cars make up only a modest % of what VW sells and make up something less than 1% of the cars on the road. So I suspect that Indiana will not even look at this as a real issue.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Who knows? But I don't see that as at all far fetched.

You can have my 50 mpg 2014 Jetta when you pry the wheel from my cold dead hands....

Because you KNOW that the "EPA version" isn't going to get that good of mileage.

Granted, I live in a non-smog part of the state.

 

[danielocean03]

One of the interesting things to be seen is whether owners will even be allowed​ to refuse the "fix".

What are your thoughts on all the class action lawsuits regarding this mess? I've gotten a few notices in my mailbox, I've not acted on anything. VW has mailed me an apology letter also.

 

[HoughMade]

Indiana would have to rewite it regulations because right now the affected cars are EXEMPT from testing.

Further, its really a non-issue since those diesel cars make up only a modest % of what VW sells and make up something less than 1% of the cars on the road. So I suspect that Indiana will not even look at this as a real issue.

That doesn't mean they are exempt from emissions regulations. Like I said, no testing necessary to implement a mandatory recall.

Frankly, i don't know why people are so hung up on "but we don't get tested". the issue is the emissions, not passing a test. The information we have now says that newer VW TDis are non-compliant and have had a variety of software "emissions equipment tampering". There is no test necessary to prove this. Not having testing doesn't mean you have carte blanche to tamper with emissions devices. It just means that normally there's no way to know if you did. In this case, the feds and states know already. I think its quite possible to probable that they will want to do more than extract money from VW.

I hope it doesn't come to that, and it may not, but if you think a mandatory (forced) recall isn't a possibility, I envy your faith in those who don't deserve your faith.

 

[seedubs1]

No, I don't mean the EPA. I mean the counties/cities in Indiana. They can repeal the smog testing mandate in their area and be the same as the rest of IN.

That would have nothing to do with the EPA emission levels mandated for new car sales. It would only repeal the mandate for continued testing of old cars in the area, which is not mandated by the EPA. That is a local decision.

You mean the EPA?
Yes, I'm sure they'll listen to us and change policy.

No.....But it'll puke out less emissions per mile. Burn more fuel, but put out less emissions.....I don't agree with the regulations as they are.

I also don't agree with what they've done to the emissions the vehicles puke out. The emissions from today's diesels are worse for you to inhale, that's for sure. Particle size has been drastically reduced and your nose hairs and other filters don't catch the particles anymore. Now, the smaller particles go strait to the bottom of your lungs. Great job, EPA.

Glad I don't live in a commie area and I can drive whatever I want. Neither of my cars would pass emissions testing. I'd have to dump more money into them to get them to pass than I paid for them in the first place.

You can have my 50 mpg 2014 Jetta when you pry the wheel from my cold dead hands....

Because you KNOW that the "EPA version" isn't going to get that good of mileage.

Granted, I live in a non-smog part of the state.

 

[HoughMade]

What are your thoughts on all the class action lawsuits regarding this mess? I've gotten a few notices in my mailbox, I've not acted on anything. VW has mailed me an apology letter also.

Lawyers will make money. Individuals will get very little. the damages would amount to the cost of the fix (which ill be free) and the diminution in value of the vehicle. I think that will be negligible.

 

[seedubs1]

Class action lawsuits are a waste of time. They're for the lawyers that will collect the lions share of the money. If you get in on it, you'll get $21.95 in your pocket. Class action lawsuits are a joke.

As for VW's apology, what a load of horse ****. Tuning like this does not happen on accident. This was malicious on their part. Then they go and claim they are "clean diesel" in their marketing. It's false advertising at it's finest. And I really think they need to pay the people that got taken advantage of for it. They sold these to hippies that care for the environment, and sold them something that actually hurts it worse than a lot of other vehicles. In my opinion, they should be forced to buy back the vehicles at full retail price.

Note, this is coming from a VW owner. Personally, I could care less about all of this. I won't be selling my car, and I won't be getting a re-calibration or getting in on any lawsuits.

What are your thoughts on all the class action lawsuits regarding this mess? I've gotten a few notices in my mailbox, I've not acted on anything. VW has mailed me an apology letter also.

 

[seedubs1]

You're right. These did not make emissions right off the show room floor. It doesn't matter if you're tested or not. It's a car that shouldn't have been sold in the first place.

In addition, I think there will be issues between the owners and VW due to the re-calibration. Their MPG will significantly be reduced. To the point, it won't make sense to have the TDi over a gasoline burning car. Diesel is a bit more expensive than gas, and it will no longer make sense to own the diesel version since it'll be cost neutral per mile to drive between the TDi and gas version. Basically, the re-calibration will negate any benefit gained by going with diesel. The owners are going to be pissed and want their money back. They've been lied to, and if they're forced to re-cal, they deserve a full refund IMHO.

That said, I don't think it'll be a mandatory recall. It'll be a "mandatory" unenforced recall if anything. Those living in areas that are smog tested will essentially be forced as their cars won't pass otherwise. The rest, where there is no smog testing, they won't force, but they'll offer the fix and call it "mandatory." At least that's what I'm betting will happen. The .gov won't sink the kind of money into forcing compliance that would be necessary.

That doesn't mean they are exempt from emissions regulations. Like I said, no testing necessary to implement a mandatory recall.

Frankly, i don't know why people are so hung up on "but we don't get tested". the issue is the emissions, not passing a test. The information we have now says that newer VW TDis are non-compliant and have had a variety of software "emissions equipment tampering". There is no test necessary to prove this. Not having testing doesn't mean you have carte blanche to tamper with emissions devices. It just means that normally there's no way to know if you did. In this case, the feds and states know already. I think its quite possible to probable that they will want to do more than extract money from VW.

I hope it doesn't come to that, and it may not, but if you think a mandatory (forced) recall isn't a possibility, I envy your faith in those who don't deserve your faith.

 

[1775usmarine]

Indiana would have to rewite it regulations because right now the affected cars are EXEMPT from testing.

Further, its really a non-issue since those diesel cars make up only a modest % of what VW sells and make up something less than 1% of the cars on the road. So I suspect that Indiana will not even look at this as a real issue.

From the reports it shows a little under 500k TDI's in the states.

 

[HoughMade]

Oh and emissions testing in Lake and Porter County was not a local decision. Not by a long shot. Its the EPA and IDEM. The counties had no say.

http://www.in.gov/idem/airquality/files/redesignation_lakeporter_ozone_2008_response_20140729.pdf

 

[steveh_131]

Oh and emissions testing in Lake and Porter County was not a local decision. Not by a long shot. Its the EPA and IDEM. The counties had no say.

http://www.in.gov/idem/airquality/files/redesignation_lakeporter_ozone_2008_response_20140729.pdf

I learned something new today. Thanks.

 

[seedubs1]

Did not know this. Why is that, and why is the rest of IN not affected?

I figured if they had the power to do this to individual counties, they'd just do it across the board for everyone in the US...

Oh and emissions testing in Lake and Porter County was not a local decision. Not by a long shot. Its the EPA and IDEM. The counties had no say.

http://www.in.gov/idem/airquality/files/redesignation_lakeporter_ozone_2008_response_20140729.pdf

 

[1775usmarine]

Did not know this. Why is that, and why is the rest of IN not affected?

I figured if they had the power to do this to individual counties, they'd just do it across the board for everyone in the US...

I heard its because Chicago's air is so bad they blame us again for their problems so they sucker Lake and Porter into their mess.

 

[steveh_131]

Did not know this. Why is that, and why is the rest of IN not affected?

I figured if they had the power to do this to individual counties, they'd just do it across the board for everyone in the US...

Based on the PDF he provided, it looks like we got lumped in with Chicago and a portion of Wisconsin, even though NW Indiana contributes very minimally to the pollution of that area.

 

[JollyMon]

Leonardo DiCaprio wants to make a VW scandal movie - Fortune

 

[HoughMade]

Based on the PDF he provided, it looks like we got lumped in with Chicago and a portion of Wisconsin, even though NW Indiana contributes very minimally to the pollution of that area.

Bingo. The EPA singled out Lake and Porter and the State imposed testing on these counties to meet EPA federal standards.

 

[seedubs1]

Maybe if Indiana would stop producing so many dangerous things that make their way into Chicago, IL would be the utopia they strive to be.

Personally, I like to blame KY and Cinci for Indiana's issues. Blame the South/East I say.

Feel free to add purple

 

[actaeon277]

No, I don't mean the EPA. I mean the counties/cities in Indiana. They can repeal the smog testing mandate in their area and be the same as the rest of IN.

That would have nothing to do with the EPA emission levels mandated for new car sales. It would only repeal the mandate for continued testing of old cars in the area, which is not mandated by the EPA. That is a local decision.



No.....But it'll puke out less emissions per mile. Burn more fuel, but put out less emissions.....I don't agree with the regulations as they are.

I also don't agree with what they've done to the emissions the vehicles puke out. The emissions from today's diesels are worse for you to inhale, that's for sure. Particle size has been drastically reduced and your nose hairs and other filters don't catch the particles anymore. Now, the smaller particles go strait to the bottom of your lungs. Great job, EPA.

Glad I don't live in a commie area and I can drive whatever I want. Neither of my cars would pass emissions testing. I'd have to dump more money into them to get them to pass than I paid for them in the first place.

Oh and emissions testing in Lake and Porter County was not a local decision. Not by a long shot. Its the EPA and IDEM. The counties had no say.

http://www.in.gov/idem/airquality/files/redesignation_lakeporter_ozone_2008_response_20140729.pdf

Bingo. The EPA singled out Lake and Porter and the State imposed testing on these counties to meet EPA federal standards.

Hough, thanks for saving me the trouble of looking that up. I knew it wasn't a local decision.

 

[pudly]

FYI- Porsche has been added to the complaint.

11/02/2015: EPA, California Notify Volkswagen of Additional Clean Air Act Violations

 

[danielocean03]

I'm averaging three notices a week for class action lawsuits against VW. It's ridiculous.