VP DEBATE TONIGHT

[Mad Macs]

And again I ask what science?

Let's take "Theory of Evolution" vs "Creationism". Christian Conservatives are pushing to get creationism taught in public schools as an "alternative" science. The problem is that it's not based on science at all.

 

[Mad Macs]

Whoa! Hold on a sec here. You are now purporting to have the ability, or are quoting other sources that have the ability, to read thought patterns?? You have successfully thrown any remote credibility you might have had right out the window.

Your idealistic bent is glowing so brightly you should really consider posting on a forum that has more than a mere handful of supporters for your convoluted thoughts.

You know what, I've gotten more positive rep in the past 48 hours than I had in all the months I've been on this forum. Most stated something like "it's about time somebody stood up to the political bullies." So I think I'm going to continue hanging out and talking about guns and politics. Thanks for the invite to leave however.

I don't have the ability to see into people's minds, the great thing is that people speak them so often I don't have to!

Case in point, here are some links:

Congressman calls evolution lie from 'pit of hell' - Technology & science - Science | NBC News

Mo. Rep. Todd Akin: Rape rarely leads to pregnancy - CBS News

Tennessee passes law allowing creationism in the classroom | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine

Creationism Bill Dies in Indiana House

I know the Indiana bill died in the house however somebody thought this was a good idea.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm pro-choice actually. I think the mother should be the chooser. Most mothers who have an abortion do so for a reason. Usually the reason is that the child would have a terrible existence if it was given birth to. Which would be worse, having a baby and not being able to feed it, or terminating the pregnancy early? Pick your evil.

By this argument, I could justify putting .45 hollowpoints into the heads of children of any given age in less than ideal circumstances.

I do think that the mother should bear the financial responsibility to do this however, without resorting to government assistance. So that should take care of your other issue with this.

I believe that being reasonable is the key to success, we are currently seeing two polar opposites striving for power. I'm not cool with either extreme. I don't like our society being overly dependent upon government programs, however I don't feel the religious zealots are right either. What happened to being moderate?

When is it reasonable to murder another human being simply for being inconvenient by virtue of existing?

Oh, and just out of curiosity, since you are obviously pro-life what are your plans to help care for the child after they are born? Your political party has stated that they are cutting government "entitlements" so the mother that chose to have her baby and tough it out won't have any assistance going forward.

In order to do it right it would require a lot of changes I don't see happening. I feel that charity properly belongs in the private sector and given the historic generosity of the American people up to and including the present, I feel that this would work if we could discipline the .gov to mind its own damned business and get out of the way. This includes not seizing and squandering our money for purposes for which the .gov lacks constitutional authority and also through bureaucratic inefficiency. This is a major Tenth Amendment issue. I would also point out that people, particularly conservatives tend to be far more generous when not approached with the attitude that others are entitled to take largess from our labors without our consent.

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[Mad Macs]

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Sorry, using your same argument masturbation is murder as well.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Let's take "Theory of Evolution" vs "Creationism". Christian Conservatives are pushing to get creationism taught in public schools as an "alternative" science. The problem is that it's not based on science at all.

Prove evolution.

Now consider that Darwinism requires as much or more blind faith than any other religious doctrine. It seems that science is lacking.

Now I will approach it from a different angle. Evolution is sorely lacking when held up to the scientific method.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Sorry, using your same argument masturbation is murder as well.

Not quite. This is like arguing that a bag of flour is a cake. It speaks volumes that you would have to reach for such a sorry argument.

 

[Mad Macs]

Prove evolution.

Now consider that Darwinism requires as much or more blind faith than any other religious doctrine. It seems that science is lacking.

Now I will approach it from a different angle. Evolution is sorely lacking when held up to the scientific method.

It's called the Theory of evolution. Which would be more possible, the fact that earth is millions and millions of years old and animals got better as it grew older, or that some over-seeing deity hid dinosaur bones in the earth to test our faith?

 

[hornadylnl]

I'll take my chances



Since you're living so comfortable, please do advise me what I should do with my family of four...sell drugs? Become a hit man? So easy to pass judgement from your comfortable chair, must feel good to be superior to those who are struggling(the ones actually struggling, not those taking advantage of the system).

Then go get a job. I waited til I owned a house and was established before I had children. Millions of others do as well. So you want to go to school full time with a family of four. It's too big of an inconvenience to live with mom and dad. After all, every child is entitled to their own bedroom so inconvenience the rest of us and let us pay for it.

Sure, I'm comfortable. That's largely due to sacrifices I've made to get where I am. I certainly wasn't fancying buying Jeeps or going on overseas vacations when I worked full time while my wife stayed at home raising our daughter. If you're going to complain about government handouts to green energy, take the log out of your own eye. Ad I thought Romney said all of the 47% were going to vote for Obama.

 

[Mad Macs]

Not quite. This is like arguing that a bag of flour is a cake. It speaks volumes that you would have to reach for such a sorry argument.

Actually it makes perfect sense. A fetus will eventually become a human being, so will sperm if presented an egg.

Oh wait, the bible DOES say that masturbation is murder. Nevermind.

 

[IndyDave1776]

It's called the Theory of evolution. Which would be more possible, the fact that earth is millions and millions of years old and animals got better as it grew older, or that some over-seeing deity hid dinosaur bones in the earth to test our faith?

How do you know the earth to be any particular age. How would a cataclysmic event affect the methods that are generally accepted for dating the ages of any given piece of matter? In other words, a global flood could rapidly extinguish life and simultaneously interfere with our ability to correctly date materials. How do we even know these methods are accurate. Again, if scientific thought is the foundation, we can go back to widely accepted notions about global warming that any good historian should know to be false (and the fact that a single volcanic event can produce more 'greenhouse gasses' than humans have in their entire history).

In the end you are telling me that your religion is better than my religion. This is a losing battle.

 

[Mad Macs]

In the end you are telling me that your religion is better than my religion. This is a losing battle.

I am willing to agree to disagree on this.

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

It's called the Theory of evolution. Which would be more possible, the fact that earth is millions and millions of years old and animals got better as it grew older, or that some over-seeing deity hid dinosaur bones in the earth to test our faith?

Evolutionary theory has much merit as a peer reviewed, constantly changing body of work, however, the problem is abiogenesis, imo. Regarding statistical probability, it's a coin flip between ID and a one cell creature spontaneously occuring in a primordial soup due to an electric charge, that later,

went on to form the variation of species on planet earth today.

What we can say is that no one knows and it's all subjective opinion.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Actually it makes perfect sense. A fetus will eventually become a human being, so will sperm if presented an egg.

There is a difference between a given entity that matures as part of its life cycle and one of the required parts to start the development of such and entity. You are deliberately obfuscating.

Oh wait, the bible DOES say that masturbation is murder. Nevermind.

Actually the only reference of which I am aware deals with using it as a tool to sabotage a required leverite marriage such that the offending party would receive a substantially larger inheritance (and the offending party was struck dead). I will grant you that the practice generally goes hand in hand with lust and associated prohibited thoughts and conditions, but I do not recall any connection with murder. Perhaps you should study your own religion a bit more as well as you seem to have issues with yours and mine both.

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[Mad Macs]

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Sorry, it was sin not murder. I made a mistake.

I'm actually not religious at all. I'm spiritual which isn't the same thing.

On another note, what else can we drag into a thread about the VP debate?

 

[Mad Macs]

What we can say is that no one knows and it's all subjective opinion.

I would say up to a certain point, but that's obviously too fluid to be scientifically valid.

I say the Dinosaurs had lasers and there was a gigantic war that wiped them all out.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Sorry, it was sin not murder. I made a mistake.

I'm actually not religious at all. I'm spiritual which isn't the same thing.

On another note, what else can we drag into a thread about the VP debate?

We could always pick up the INGO classic about 5 year old girls stealing handguns!

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

I would say up to a certain point, but that's obviously too fluid to be scientifically valid.

I say the Dinosaurs had lasers and there was a gigantic war that wiped them all out.

Then you would be under the burden of proof for your assertions, IE, prove it.

 

[Mad Macs]

Then you would be under the burden of proof for your assertions, IE, prove it.

Why? Nobody can prove creationism. So I'll use the same reasoning they do "Because I said so."

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

Why? Nobody can prove creationism. So I'll use the same reasoning they do "Because I said so."

Creationism cannot be proven and neither can abiogenesis, which is what I initially stated in my first post.


Therefore, it is subjective opinion on how life began.

Now if there is some specific application that you'd like to discuss this in the context of a political forum, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

thanks

 

[Caleb]

Then go get a job. I waited til I owned a house and was established before I had children. Millions of others do as well. So you want to go to school full time with a family of four. It's too big of an inconvenience to live with mom and dad. After all, every child is entitled to their own bedroom so inconvenience the rest of us and let us pay for it.

Sure, I'm comfortable. That's largely due to sacrifices I've made to get where I am. I certainly wasn't fancying buying Jeeps or going on overseas vacations when I worked full time while my wife stayed at home raising our daughter. If you're going to complain about government handouts to green energy, take the log out of your own eye. Ad I thought Romney said all of the 47% were going to vote for Obama.

I have a job, and I'm a full time student, as well as a full time parent. My children were not planned(I do not resent or regret them), so i had kids before I started school. Fancying jeeps? Only after selling one of my other cars...vacations? I don't take them. Hell, I don't even health insurance nor visit a doctor. I could really use a dentist visit, but no, I stay home in tooth pain because I won't take your money like you think I want to.

Do I have an iPhone, sure I do....I wanted to cancel it but guess what...I don't have money to do that.

What you don't understand and never will, how bad I feel to have to be dependent. You just go right on and toss me into the pile of people who work the system.