VIDEO - Officers threatens to execute Ohio CCW holder

[henktermaat]

Wow - the Canton PD did just take down their FB page...

The LEOs are circling the wagons against us citizens.

 

[iChokePeople]

^^ Personally, if I were in OH, I'd roll down the window and hold both hands out the window in plain view with my license/permit (what is it, in OH?) in one hand, waving it like a white flag. And I'll be lynched for this, but I think he had opportunities while he was telling the whole street sweeping story, as well.

And all of that would weigh heavily on me if I were deciding a simple case of failure to inform and the LEOs had done things anywhere near right, or even wrong in what seemed like a good faith attempt to do their best. In THIS case, however, NOTHING can begin to excuse the LEOs' (both of them) behavior.

ETA: Why both? If it's not obvious, because at BEST, the second did nothing to de-escalate. Many of us who served in the military have been in situations that become WAAAAY too emotionally charged and have had to pull a teammate off for a time-out to cool down. That happens. I don't get why THIS situation became that way at all, but given that it did, the partner should have grabbed him, pulled him away, and told him to cool out.

 

[henktermaat]

FB must be engaged, because now none of the "support" pages are even showing up.

I agree with this image from the Canton PD page:

 

[UncleMike]

With all due respect, Mike, I disagree wholeheartedly. They're ALREADY circling the wagons. You can see it in the comments on the OHCC website, the CPD Facebook page (before it was taken down) and in the quoted comments in the news articles. This is not the first time we've had an issue like this and these stories continue to surface over and over again. When Rodney King was dragged from his car and beaten almost to death almost 20 years ago, it didn't stop the "rogue cop" behavior even though the officers involved (eventually) went to prison. It didn't even slow it down. I believe that legitimate gun owners are rapidly approaching the point where they will refuse to be treated like common criminals anymore and things will get ugly.

Then something will have to be done to defuse the situation!!
I've stated this before.
Officers in this country are looking at the worst year in recent history for Officer LODD caused by some nut case with a firearm.
At the current rate, the number could easily double last years three year high.
Self preservation is a strong instinct, especially among all of the "Type A" people in Law Enforcement.
I'd say, as gun owners, that we all share the responsibility to use level headed thinking when it comes to situations involving firearms.
Calling for "A pound of flesh" from this Officer without the nicety of a trial will do nothing but set the resolve of many LEO's that the Public is out to get them. (The paranoia door swings both ways)
As I've stated here earlier. This Officer has blackened the image of Law Enforcement and set back relations with the Public by at least a decade.
That's no excuse however for radicals to condemn all LEO's out of hand because this idiot ****ed up big time.

 

[henktermaat]

Then something will have to be done to defuse the situation!!
I've stated this before.
Officers in this country are looking at the worst year in recent history for Officer LODD caused by some nut case with a firearm.
At the current rate, the number could easily double last years three year high.
Self preservation is a strong instinct, especially among all of the "Type A" people in Law Enforcement.
I'd say, as gun owners, that we all share the responsibility to use level headed thinking when it comes to situations involving firearms.
Calling for "A pound of flesh" from this Officer without the nicety of a trial will do nothing but set the resolve of many LEO's that the Public is out to get them. (The paranoia door swings both ways)
As I've stated here earlier. This Officer has blackened the image of Law Enforcement and set back relations with the Public by at least a decade.
That's no excuse however for radicals to condemn all LEO's out of hand because this idiot ****ed up big time.

 

[Jack Burton]

As for the person purporting to be his lawyer....it doesn't pass the smell test. A real attorney would know the risk regarding conduct detrimental to his client's case and the prejudicing of evidence. Again...it's easy to be anyone you want to be on the Internet.

.

The "attorney" is quite well-known in Ohio as a lawyer involved in other notification legal problems that he has won for his clients, and is also known to some members of INGO. Perhaps he is better known for his credibility than you, eh.

 

[T.Lex]

Heya Jake46184,

The Ohio law is set in terms of, "If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose...."

The driver in this case has a rather compelling argument that he was not stopped for a law enforcement purpose. He was already stopped for a non-law enforcement purpose. These kinds of interactions are sometimes labelled as "voluntary."

Were I his attorney, I'd seriously consider arguing that he had no obligation to inform until the officers actually started paying attention to him.

 

[iChokePeople]

Officers in this country are looking at the worst year in recent history for Officer LODD caused by some nut case with a firearm.
At the current rate, the number could easily double last years three year high.
Self preservation is a strong instinct, especially among all of the "Type A" people in Law Enforcement.

I'd sort of buy into that as an explanation for an overreaction to a current threat or perceived threat, but in THIS case?

 

[GuyRelford]

I just watched the video again. The comment on executing the CCW holder is really odd. You get the feeling through out the stop that this guy was about one snarky comment away from putting a beat down on the guy. I have to admit, it would have been hard for me to resist at some point telling the puke what I thought of him.

I agree. Here's an interesting thought - wouldn't you like to know if Officer Harless has been involved in ANY officer-involved shootings during his career, and whether there were any other witnesses to such shootings.

IOW, why was he so confident in saying his partner "would be a really good witness while I executed your ass."

Very scary stuff.

 

[Jake46184]

For those who can't see the video, and who may not have found Ohio's relevant code, here is a summation of both:

Ohio Code 2923.126: "If a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as the result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently possesses or has a loaded handgun...."

In the video, a LEO removes a passenger and places him against the car. LEO then enters the back seat of the vehicle and conducts a 5-minute search. AT NO TIME during this does the driver notify. He only attempts to do so 6 minutes after an LEO has approached the vehicle, when another LEO approaches his driver's window. Read the code again and then ask yourself these questions:

1. Did an LEO approach the stopped vehicle?
2. Did the driver immediately notify?
3. Had the driver immediately notified the LEO searching the rear seat of the car that he was carrying a loaded handgun, do you think the LEO may have stopped and disarmed him?

#1 is easy. Of course an LEO had approached. HE WAS IN THE CAR.
#2 There is no evidence that the driver attempted to notify until first approached at his window. The code says nothing about only being approached at the window.
#3 If you answered yes, you have no choice but to agree that the driver was in violation of the codified language.

I spend about 5 days a month in litigation. Usually as the plaintiff but sometimes as the defendant. It's amazing how courtroom proceedings are nothing like TV. There's no emotion. It's just presentation of codified law, precedents, relevant facts to the case at hand, and then someone looks at all of it and decides if the plaintiff (the State of Ohio in this matter) proved their case. And, if so, what aggravating or mitigating circumstances existed.

 

[Jack Burton]

Please don't misinterpret my summation of what happened as an excuse or defense for the LEO's conduct. Quite the contrary. The worst crime committed that evening in Canton was certainly by the officer involved.

Nonetheless, I am able to remove the emotion and look at the available facts as a matter of law. The "victim" likely would have been found guilty of soliciting had the officer pursued the necessary arrests for such a charge. He didn't. The guy was originally charged with soliciting, loitering in a slowed or stopped vehicle, and failure to notify. The solicitation charge was dropped early on. He hasn't much defense for the loitering charge but it's also one that is seldom pursued.

As for the failure to notify charge, per Ohio's code, he would likely be found guilty if the case is pursued by the prosecutor. Read the code. Watch the video. Remove the emotion and view all as a mature, unbiased observer. When you make the effort to do so, these things become really easy to understand as matters of law. Forget what you think the law SHOULD be. Read the code. Watch the video. Again, this case is almost surely going nowhere now. The prosecutor can't dismiss fast-enough.

1) soliciting is hard to prove. that's why they have to send female cops out dressed as hookers.

2) Sitting in a parked car is a crime now? Any decent attorney can get that thrown out.

3) Failure to notify? When the cops are in his face telling his to "shut up." Next we'll have cops throwing people into the street and then charging them with the very real crime of obstructing traffic. Same difference.

 

[Jake46184]

Heya Jake46184,

The Ohio law is set in terms of, "If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose...."

The driver in this case has a rather compelling argument that he was not stopped for a law enforcement purpose. He was already stopped for a non-law enforcement purpose. These kinds of interactions are sometimes labelled as "voluntary."

Were I his attorney, I'd seriously consider arguing that he had no obligation to inform until the officers actually started paying attention to him.

No offense T. Lex but any LEO stop is a "law enforcement purpose." Probably best to leave the interpretation of such things to those who live it.

 

[redneckmedic]

"Its a huge responsibility" at least he got one rant right.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Heya Jake46184,

The Ohio law is set in terms of, "If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose...."

The driver in this case has a rather compelling argument that he was not stopped for a law enforcement purpose. He was already stopped for a non-law enforcement purpose. These kinds of interactions are sometimes labelled as "voluntary."

Were I his attorney, I'd seriously consider arguing that he had no obligation to inform until the officers actually started paying attention to him.

Good point! Didn't the video also show him holding his permit up to the window to show it to the LEO? From the video I don't see how he could be convicted.

 

[Jake46184]

1) soliciting is hard to prove. that's why they have to send female cops out dressed as hookers.

2) Sitting in a parked car is a crime now? Any decent attorney can get that thrown out.

3) Failure to notify? When the cops are in his face telling his to "shut up." Next we'll have cops throwing people into the street and then charging them with the very real crime of obstructing traffic. Same difference.

Read post #150, Jack. I think it'll help.

 

[dross]

I didn't see enough to believe the guy was soliciting a prostitute. Of course, even if he was, that's another of the tyrannical laws that need to be changed. It's hers, she ought be able to rent it out. After all, it's legal to give it away. You ought to be able to rent anything you can give out for free.

 

[henktermaat]

No offense T. Lex but any LEO stop is a "law enforcement purpose." Probably best to leave the interpretation of such things to those who live it.

T.Lex is a lawyer, dude.

 

[Cemetery-man]

Maybe everyone carrying in OH needs a standardized sign to stick in the driver's side window as LE approaches their vehicle showing they are licensed carriers and a gun is in the car avoiding any surprises.

 

[henktermaat]

Maybe everyone carrying in OH needs a standardized sign to stick in the driver's side window as LE approaches their vehicle showing they are licensed carriers and a gun is in the car avoiding any surprises.

Right. Or a mandatory sticker in their back window or something
Or perhaps a tattoo or brand on their forehead

 

[Wwwildthing]

Maybe everyone carrying in OH needs a standardized sign to stick in the driver's side window as LE approaches their vehicle showing they are licensed carriers and a gun is in the car avoiding any surprises.

Oh yea right... more gun control.