VIDEO - Officers threatens to execute Ohio CCW holder

[Rookie]

.

 

[Rookie]

.

 

[cordex]

I am not a member of Officer.com or other boards where there are police defending this goober (all LEOs I know personally or on the web are disgusted by it), but it occurs to me that it would be interesting to ask those who see this as acceptable behavior to provide their department, name and badge number. I wonder if they would be willing to stand behind their position if it were brought to the attention of their superiors.

Just an idle thought.

 

[WWIIIDefender]

I guess I don't know what you expect me to do. I'm not going to sit here and lie by saying I don't feel afraid now when I see a cop. I'm a law-abiding citizen and I feel afraid when I see a cop. I'm not going to apologize for that. Officer Harless should be apologizing to me and then to all of his fellow officers he betrayed.

I am a law-abiding citizen and I feel afraid when I see a cop too. I still hope and pray that any future encounters will be with a good cop, but I must admit my fear has been growing over the last few years.

 

[j706]

Wow just wow. I have never seen or even heard of something this bizarre. I understand that some of the more anti gun type states have LEO's that don't like people being able to carry but this is just plain weird.

Watching the video I get the impression that the other officer is a newer guy maybe even on FTO or something. It is a shame he had to get caught up in that fiasco. It might just cost him his job along with the other knucklehead.

 

[Phil502]

All of that and he let Jerry Gordon go, they can't find him in the system, probably wanted for murder under his real name..

 

[Bill of Rights]

Wow just wow. I have never seen or even heard of something this bizarre. I understand that some of the more anti gun type states have LEO's that don't like people being able to carry but this is just plain weird.

Watching the video I get the impression that the other officer is a newer guy maybe even on FTO or something. It is a shame he had to get caught up in that fiasco. It might just cost him his job along with the other knucklehead.

How so? If he's new, especially if he's with Harless as his FTO, wouldn't he be able to fall back on, "I was following the lead of my FTO in what he said was the way the law was supposed to operate. I didn't know better or different then, but I do now."?

(To be clear, I'm most definitely not saying he could get away with "I was just following orders.", but that the statement Harless made, to the effect that a CCW holder is supposed to notify first thing in OH is in keeping with their law. That Harless overrode him and made it impossible for him to do so is not addressed in this.)

I also think it would be poetic justice if the driver didn't even get a misdemeanor and that Harless got the felony he promised the driver.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Jack Burton]

Actually, come to think of it, it doesn't really matter anyway. Thousands of GOOD men and women will continue to put a uniform on and carry out their duties in a professional manner everyday, whether they are in your little circle of trust or not. At the end of the day....who cares who you trust?

I will say this. I know a lot of good people in LE, and they are nothing like this idiot cop in the video. But you are. He complains about these "idiots with their little permits," and you do the same about all members of LE. You are now "afraid" of all cops because of what this idiot did in Ohio.

Same simple-minded thinking, if you ask me.

Do you believe that cops believe that every person that they stop for any reason is automatically viewed by the cop as having the potential to murder him? It's a simple yes or no question.

 

[Mike H]

I was always taught that "trust" was earned.
Until proven otherwise I always treat strangers with skepticism.

 

[squirrelhntr]

I wonder if the feeling i get after watching that video is the same feeling a Jew had in Nazi f-in Kraut Germany, or Warsaw, Poland. back in the late 1930's. ya it feels the same.

 

[down3green]

Post #150 in this thread, of course!

.

I like post #200 better...



.

 

[phatgemi]

This afternoon, 700WLW in Cincinnati discussed this very issue. It was on the "Matt Patrick" show and I was able to listen for about 50 minutes. Many many callers (and at least 2 Leo's) on the air and ZERO in support of the Canton Officer. One female caller was supportive of police in general since she was the daughter of a retired LEO and several uncles who were. But not one individual agreed with officers actions. A retired Sergeant stated that the officer should already be unemployed. By and large a very good discussion was held and since wlw is a 50,000 watt flame thrower, it is heard across much of the midwest. This situation is really growing and unfortunately it's gonna cost Canton a lot of money!!

 

[Silverado]

My little five year old daughter loves dogs. I've had to teach her that you don't run up to a dog you don't know and pet it because some of them will bite you.

She doesn't have a pre conceived notion that all dogs bite and neither do I. Nor do I have a pre concieved notion that all cops are bad, and neither does Scutter, according to what he's posted.

Some dogs bite. Some cops are like this bad cop, or like the cops here in Denver who beat up two guys in two separate instances and then lied about what happened.

Dogs have teeth. Cops have guns, clubs, tasers, legal authority and the presumption of truth. Most dogs don't bite. Most cops are good men who would never abuse their authority. But you must be careful around unknown dogs because of their teeth, and unknown cops because of their power.

That's not prejudice. Even my five year old daughter understands that.

Good. Now teach her that the best way to avoid ANY encounter with a potentially psycho cop is to obey the law and avoid consorting with known criminals. I try to avoid any interaction with LE, thus vastly reducing my chances of a bad encounter. Somehow, I've managed to avoid winding up with a pimp and prostitute in my car while obstructing the roadway in the wee hours of the morning while asking for directions, but I guess I'm lucky.

Go ahead and teach your 5 year old that you can't trust any cop. Maybe if she gets lost one day, she'll ask the guy with the overcoat and the candy in his van for help.

 

[Silverado]

Do you believe that cops believe that every person that they stop for any reason is automatically viewed by the cop as having the potential to murder him? It's a simple yes or no question.

It's not a simply yes or no question, unless you are a defense attorney looking for points with a jury through manipulation.

I believe that a cop should be alert and look for signs that an encounter might turn deadly, but I doubt that they view every single person as a murderer. It seems to me that someone who thinks like that turns into the type of cop that you see on the Canton video. He is clearly freaked out that anyone but him has a gun, and he needs to find another line of work. He clearly can't handle the job that he was hired to do.

Personally, I carry just about everywhere that I legally can. When I'm out and about, I tend to be alert, and note people who may be a potential threat. I'm not crazy or bug-eyed about it, but I think that situational awareness goes a long way in keeping one safe. Nothing wrong with being aware, badge or no badge. "Trust, but verify" is something that was taught to me long ago.

As far as the Canton officer, I wonder if he saw combat as a Marine, and if it affected him negatively. This guy doesn't need to be a cop anymore, but he may also be suffering psychologically. His behavior certainly wasn't rational.

 

[Roadie]

Good. Now teach her that the best way to avoid ANY encounter with a potentially psycho cop is to obey the law and avoid consorting with known criminals. I try to avoid any interaction with LE, thus vastly reducing my chances of a bad encounter. Somehow, I've managed to avoid winding up with a pimp and prostitute in my car while obstructing the roadway in the wee hours of the morning while asking for directions, but I guess I'm lucky.

Go ahead and teach your 5 year old that you can't trust any cop. Maybe if she gets lost one day, she'll ask the guy with the overcoat and the candy in his van for help.

Since you are fairly new here, I will assume that you haven't seen any of the threads where some of your fellow INGOers, who were doing nothing suspicious or illegal, were stopped, detained, cuffed, disarmed, and verbally abused merely for carrying?

I am not saying this to cop bash, I am saying this to point out the fallacy of your "if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about" implication.

 

[Silverado]

Since you are fairly new here, I will assume that you haven't seen any of the threads where some of your fellow INGOers, who were doing nothing suspicious or illegal, were stopped, detained, cuffed, disarmed, and verbally abused merely for carrying?

I am not saying this to cop bash, I am saying this to point out the fallacy of your "if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about" implication.

That simply hasn't been my experience. I've only been stopped for speeding a couple of times, and told the officer I was carrying with an LTCH. Got warnings both times. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I haven't sifted through old threads, but I will when I have time.

 

[thebishopp]

That simply hasn't been my experience. I've only been stopped for speeding a couple of times, and told the officer I was carrying with an LTCH. Got warnings both times. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I haven't sifted through old threads, but I will when I have time.

Your implication in this statement is that those others were obviously the one's who were wrong, if they were not "wrong" then they would not have had those negative experiences.

Now perhaps you did not mean that but that is how it came off to me.

 

[Silverado]

Your implication in this statement is that those others were obviously the one's who were wrong, if they were not "wrong" then they would not have had those negative experiences.

Now perhaps you did not mean that but that is how it came off to me.

Just because one person is wrong, does not mean the other person is right. That's about the simplest way I can address your assumption.

There is no way that the guy with the gun permit should have been subjected to the abuse that the cop laid on him, but it is quite clear that his actions drew the attention of the cop in the first place. Once again, the cop was wrong, wrong, wrong, in his treatment of the guy, but if you believe that the guy was asking for directions with a pimp and a prostitute in his car in the wee hours of the morning, then I've got some beautiful oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you, at an amazing price.

 

[RichardR]

Just because one person is wrong, does not mean the other person is right. That's about the simplest way I can address your assumption.

There is no way that the guy with the gun permit should have been subjected to the abuse that the cop laid on him, but it is quite clear that his actions drew the attention of the cop in the first place. Once again, the cop was wrong, wrong, wrong, in his treatment of the guy, but if you believe that the guy was asking for directions with a pimp and a prostitute in his car in the wee hours of the morning, then I've got some beautiful oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you, at an amazing price.

Woooh there, the guy was just sitting in his car, talking to two other people, the officer just assumed the driver's passenger was a pimp & the woman was a prostitute.

There was no probable cause or even reasonable suspicion of any illegal activities such as "pimping" or "soliciting" occurring on that video tape.

 

[dross]

Good. Now teach her that the best way to avoid ANY encounter with a potentially psycho cop is to obey the law and avoid consorting with known criminals. I try to avoid any interaction with LE, thus vastly reducing my chances of a bad encounter. Somehow, I've managed to avoid winding up with a pimp and prostitute in my car while obstructing the roadway in the wee hours of the morning while asking for directions, but I guess I'm lucky.

Go ahead and teach your 5 year old that you can't trust any cop. Maybe if she gets lost one day, she'll ask the guy with the overcoat and the candy in his van for help.

Yep, I think I'll definitely throw in that thing about not breaking the law and not consorting with known criminals. It just makes good sense.

But it shouldn't require good sense to avoid being threatened with death or getting smashed in the face by a public servant. It should just require you to comply with their orders, which this guy did. It doesn't matter whether he broke the law, or whether he was talking to a pimp or a drug dealer, or a murderer. He didn't resist, he said "Sir" about a thousand times and he was extremely deferential.

Your implication is ridiculous.

As to my daughter, when she's old enough for such a lesson, I'll teach her to regard cops the same way I do, with respect - because I do respect the job they do, and the men who do it with professionalism and restraint - and with the simple understanding that there are cops you can't trust and they have enormous power and therefore every encounter with a cop you don't know is just like petting a dog you don't know.

That simply hasn't been my experience. I've only been stopped for speeding a couple of times, and told the officer I was carrying with an LTCH. Got warnings both times. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I haven't sifted through old threads, but I will when I have time.

I don't know what level of education or intelligence you have, but judging from your post you seem to be fluent in the English language, so I'm assuming you're reasonably bright. If you're bright enough to read and write, you're bright enough to understand that your tiny sample of encounters with cops is indicative of exactly NOTHING.

There are INGO members who have been lectured, questioned rudely as to why they carry, had their weapons taken and handed back to them disassembled and a variety of other unpleasant things because they chose to inform an LEO they were carrying legally. I'm glad you've been lucky. I hope you stay lucky.

I had a cop lie about a traffic infraction he gave me so that a higher fine could be imposed. I personally witnessed a cop curse at and threaten to take to jail a close friend whose husband had been missing all night after leaving a suicide note because she was distraught and he took offense to her pleading for him to do something. You see, they live in a poor neighborhood in a high crime area, even though they are nice middle class folks. But to him, they were scumbags.

Look at what's been coming out now that everyone has a video camera. Look at the video compared to what the cops said happened before the video surfaced.

You're living in a fantasy world if you think that somehow your behavior controls the situation with a cop. Sure, being polite always helps. If I'm rude, if I'm out late, if my friends are criminals, even if I'm a criminal myself, it doesn't justify anything but professional behavior from a cop.