VIDEO - Officers threatens to execute Ohio CCW holder

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  • T.Lex

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    16 complaints sounds like a lot to me but I have no knowledge in this area. Perhaps our resident LEOs or attorney that deal in the criminal justice area can opine.
    Another lawyer answer: it depends. :)

    Complaints are a fact of life in modern police work. I have reviewed complaints where people who were pulled over, very emotionally argued that the officer who cited them over for driving through an active construction zone (hypothetically) was rude, unprofessional, and just a bad person. Reviewed the dash cam, which (hypothetically) showed the person doing exactly what the citation stated, and the officer acting professionally, and the driver being rude, inconsiderate, and arrogant. I've heard some officers, whom I respect, say something to the effect that if you don't have at least a few complaints, you're not doing your job. I wouldn't go that far, as many, very good, officers go years between complaints.

    But, at the same time, a "simmer" of complaints can show that an officer is screwing up in relatively minor ways, but has the potential to go "big" at any time. I've certainly seen that before, too. And, it can be VERY hard for a department to know when to make the move to get rid of the officer. It can be particularly hard when that officer does a GREAT job in other areas.

    Very few people in the world are truly good or truly evil. Most are a mix of both, to various degrees. I have no trouble believing that Ofcr. Harless could behave as seen in the video, but be a great guy to work with most of the time, and behave admirably in other situations.

    As a department, if you move too late, you are vilified for not recognizing a "bad apple" and getting rid of him earlier. If you move too early, you are vilified for turning against a good officer for petty offenses. I have - personally - seen both sides of that fence. You just try to get as much information as you can, and make the best decision you can under the circumstances.

    To make a short answer long, 16 complaints in 8 years (1 every 6 months give or take) seems like alot, but it is really a case-by-case determination.
     

    phatgemi

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    What's really scary to me is to stop and think what would have happened if not for the video camera recording. Then this would "never" have happened. And to read the thread on officer.com: Wow! It's like we are looking at two different incidents.
     

    iChokePeople

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    Another lawyer answer: it depends. :)

    To make a short answer long, 16 complaints in 8 years (1 every 6 months give or take) seems like alot, but it is really a case-by-case determination.

    And Dan (I'm tired of calling him "Officer Harless" and think it's an insult to the title) is sick of these STUPID IDIOTS resisting arrest.
     
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    my wife had a good idea, we had been planning on going to Cedar Point this summer.. but she is going to write the Governor of Ohio and say we are not spending a dime in Ohio while this guy is a cop ...
     

    T.Lex

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    Mini-update.

    The victim's name has been released (use your own Google-fu) and the Stark County Docket is online. He has 2 different sets of charges from this incident: the criminal violation of the carry permit (as a misdemeanor), and traffic violations.

    His next court appearance is currently set for Aug. 1, and trial set for Aug. 11 (although I'd be surprised if it happened on that date).

    Edit: the allegation that he was charged with the solicitation, but it was dropped, appears to be unfounded. There is no indication of that. Now, that may have been a recommended charge in the probable cause affidavit, but it does not appear to have been filed.
     

    Scutter01

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    my wife had a good idea, we had been planning on going to Cedar Point this summer.. but she is going to write the Governor of Ohio and say we are not spending a dime in Ohio while this guy is a cop ...

    The thing that concerns me just as much is the way Canton obviously tried to cover this up. They are JUST AS CULPABLE and it makes me seriously wonder how many of their other "officers" behave this way on a regular basis. It makes me wonder how many officers in ANY department behave this way on a regular basis. Clearly, Canton needs to clean house. At the very least, the officer's partner needs to go, as well as the Chief and the corrupt prosecutor. It shouldn't stop with this one lunatic. I'll not spend a dime in Ohio PERIOD.
     
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    I'm getting ready to head out for a couple of days to a reunion of the Better Half's family, and I'll be checking in here as often as I can on the laptop, but I want to spout off a little before I go.

    Many of the posters here who have never been LEO's are really hitting the nail on the head concerning the greater implications of this incident.

    I learned during my LEO career (and it became more apparent to me as I rose in rank) that there is one utterly necessary thing that a LEO agency MUST have in order to successfully complete its mission.

    It MUST have the trust of the citizenry. If you don't have that, you're nothing but a gang of armed thugs hiding behind badges.

    I flatter myself that during my LEO career in Cincinnati we enjoyed that trust. We had our bad eggs as all agencies do. But when we discovered them in our ranks we dealt with them. Our reputation meant something to us in those days.

    I'm not sure that I know why it's happening but that situation seems to be changing.

    I often find myself watching youtube videos of rogue cops on bad SWAT raids, killing people's family pets, sometimes even killing the people themselves, and I want to slap the cops silly and scream at them, "WTF are you doing??? What the hell's WRONG with you??? What are you THINKING??? You're a COP for chrissake!!!! We don't DO things like this!!!"

    Just this past year, in an incident documented elsewhere on this board, I was the victim of a corrupt cop here in Carmel, a thug who charged me with a crime of which he knew I was not guilty, who blatantly perjured himself in a court of law to fill in the gaping holes of the ridiculous and implausible scenario that he wanted the judge to believe. He did it because I'm a gunowner, and to him we are all his personal enemies.

    Now, every single time I leave my home, I put a digital voice recorder on my belt and I activate it. What the hell kind of community am I living in that I have to do something like this to protect myself from my own police department?

    Now every time I see a Carmel police car my blood boils.

    I've been poisoned, just as certainly as if someone has been feeding me arsenic.

    There was a time when I could advise people in good faith to trust their police. "Cooperate," I'd say. "If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear. The cops will do right by you." Those days are over. I now tell people that I know to avoid the police. Don't talk to them, don't cooperate with them. The less you say to them the less chance they can try to hang you for something.

    My late father, who preceded me as a sergeant in the Cincinnati PD, must be spinning in his grave like a frigging top.

    This incident in Canton is far more than the abuse heaped on one inoffensive gunowner. This video and what it depicts is going to do more damage to the relationship between law enforcement and the public than anything I can think of that has occurred in my lifetime, and it makes me sick.

    The shame of it is that there are still good cops out there who would never even think of pulling a stunt like this, and people are going to hate their guts because of what this POS pulled on that street corner in Canton.

    I don't know what else to say.
     

    T.Lex

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    (The C(armel) PD officer is not a thug, not corrupt, you were not charged with a crime, and he did not commit perjury.)

    Otherwise, cool story.
     

    henktermaat

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    From the Canton PD FB page:
    "Due to the fact that we will be unable to properly monitor our department’s Facebook page we will be taking it down at 3:00pm. We will bring it back up Friday morning at 7:00am, completely intact so that citizen may continue to post comments and concerns. We will also post any updates on the investigation at its completion."
     

    henktermaat

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    (The C(armel) PD officer is not a thug, not corrupt, you were not charged with a crime, and he did not commit perjury.)

    Otherwise, cool story.

    I do suspect Liberty is correct on the officer's reasoning. The officer came off as an arrogant prick who didn't want a citizen to have a gun. I too have been somewhat poisoned against the C(armel P)D.
     
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