Video of cop shooting unarmed man released

[RA8]

If this has been posted already, my apologies.
Ottawa Hills officer's trial begins, dash cam vid shown | 13abc.com

 

[CountryBoy19]

Hmmm.... interesting... waiting to see the replies... Thats a really tough call...

He seemed very calm... and cool... I would say that the officer was not "provoked" to do so, but I can also see how the officer mistook his actions as threatening.

 

[PatriotPride]

I reviewed the vid closely several times. I do believe that the shooting was justified. My reasoning is as follows:

1. The two men saw the officer behind them and took off at high speed. The shootee's friend attempted to flee. This would put me on high alert immediately.

2. In the officer's defense, it was night and was dark.

3. The shootee DID move his arm/hand in a motion that could be construed as drawing a firearm. The shootee DID NOT put his hands up. The officer clearly ordered him to put his hands up.

All in all, IMO the shootee was an idiot for speeding off like that in front of a police officer (what, did he expect the officer to not attempt to pull him over?). When the officer ordered him to put his hands up, it appears the shootee developed tunnel-vision and didn't respond correctly.

My verdict? Shooting was justified. The officer had a split-second to make his decision, and was correct in taking the shot.

 

[Colt556]

So let me get this straight. Being an idiot and trying to speed on a motorcycle at night warrants getting shot in the back once you stop, with both feet on the ground and turning to look at the officer?

 

[Que]

I reviewed the vid closely several times. I do believe that the shooting was justified. My reasoning is as follows:

1. The two men saw the officer behind them and took off at high speed. The shootee's friend attempted to flee. This would put me on high alert immediately.

2. In the officer's defense, it was night and was dark.

3. The shootee DID move his arm/hand in a motion that could be construed as drawing a firearm. The shootee DID NOT put his hands up. The officer clearly ordered him to put his hands up.

All in all, IMO the shootee was an idiot for speeding off like that in front of a police officer (what, did he expect the officer to not attempt to pull him over?). When the officer ordered him to put his hands up, it appears the shootee developed tunnel-vision and didn't respond correctly.

My verdict? Shooting was justified. The officer had a split-second to make his decision, and was correct in taking the shot.

1. The bikers may not have known that it was a police car behind them.
2. So what!
3. I'm not sure he had time to put his hands up.

The officer had more than a "split-second" to react. The biker was turned away from him and he didn't make a move toward the officer with anything that could be identified as a weapon.

 

[IndyBeerman]

That movement he made with his right arm going back and hand movement at the belt level sure as heck looked to me that it was an attempt to pull a concealed handgun.

Also, notice the biker did note turn left towards the officers, but towards the right making it look like he was trying to face away or perhaps hide something.

Plus the officer did not have the luxury of seeing the straight behind video, but a view from the left rear quarter that more than likely presented itself to looking even more like he was trying to.

All of you people who say that you would not have reacted that way, you can say that till the cows come home. You put yourself in that officer's position and I'll bet 99 out of 100 times you'll react the same way he did.

 

[Thirty30]

-My
I understand its hard to be a cop...must be pretty hard knowing anyone could take your life if your not prepared...but you are there to protect citizens not paralyze them. I kinda think the LEO either had some built up frustration and wanted to give 1 to somebody(cause of what the other officer said about he wanted to get them), or he was just scared. Too scared,lol.
You shouldnt take a job that has life threatening risks, unless you can remain calm, level headed, and proficient at what you do!

-Another
i watched it over a couple times and in my opinion if you turn your head to look that far behind you, your body and shoulders twist a little, if your shoulder goes back so does your elbow.
Thats all I saw was his elbow come back a TINY bit synonymously with his shoulder. No jerking and not multiple movements of a gun draw.

I would have been wary most likely would have had him in my sights...but would have never taken this shot. might have even got nervous from him looking back, but there is no visible threat, he is still straddling his bike and the LEO is behind his car door. This guy could have been partially deaf or anything.


Law enforcement is in place to uphold civil justice & protection by the tax dollars we pay, some of us more reluctantly than others, yet we MUST obey every command, me must mold our lives around them so they feel safe, and so they have it easier. Law abiding citizens get no respect from some LEO's and are hassled less than the criminals the majority of the time from my opinion. Yet it is out of our power to have any say so on how their organization is ran. Hence in the end we suffer the consequences and have to sit back and watch as their systems ultimately fail. There is murder, robbery, assault, rape, beating, etc...every day that we must deal with and 90% of the time the victim still suffers from what we wish to be protected from. Don't let me forget about REPEAT child molesters,I dream of a country where a first time molester would never see the light of day again. Yet pay for my country to release them from prison and might as well drop them off at an elementary school. All the while some officers are sometimes as bad as the criminals and can get away with so much and sometimes walk away from serious charges with a slap on the wrist.

Sorry should have just started a separate rant post, lol.


I just think its sad he came home paralyzed because he couldn't hear what the cop said and looked over his shoulder.

 

[jeremy]

Bad shoot...

If he was a Soldier he would have just earned himself a one way trip to Leavenworth...

 

[Thirty30]

Also, notice the biker did note turn left towards the officers, but towards the right making it look like he was trying to face away or perhaps hide something.

Still this would mean he was in the wrong because you don't shoot someone in the back because they are hiding 'something'.

To me this looked as though his lower arm and hand moved very little and almost as if he set his open palm on his thigh, which a bike rider would do looking back behind him. I still lack to see a drawing motion, if anything I could say it looked like he might have rested his hand on a gun, but not pulled it from holster, pocket, waistband, etc.

You put yourself in that officer's position and I'll bet 99 out of 100 times you'll react the same way he did.

This is what bugs me the most is I put myself in the cops shoes and if that was me, or you, in the cops shoes, on tape shooting this unarmed guy in the back, then getting on the stand and saying, "You have got be prepared for anything, I thought he was armed and I wanted to go home to my kids."

I think we all know what would happen...

Short of news channels turning a handgun into an 'assault weapon', and calling it an 'open carrier on a rampage', I highly doubt sympathy from a judge, LEO, Jury, or the general public for that matter.

 

[ihateiraq]

man this would be tough if i was on the jury. i understand the "judged by 12 over carried by 6" mentality, but that doesnt look good.

 

[451_Detonics]

I have to say based on what I saw in the video it was a bad shoot. The kid was anchored on that bike, with the officer moving to a 9 o'clock position (to the kids left) even if a gun was being drawn the kid would have to be quadruple joint to continue a turn to his right and be able to point a firearm at the officer.

I think this was a pure and simple AD on the officer's part, he he was excited... adrenalin was pumping, and he had his finger on the trigger when he shouldn't have.

 

[patton487]

Just my opinion, but to me it is obvious that they were just dealing with a couple of yo-yo's goofing around with their bikes. This guy should not be a cop, way to trigger happy or maybe scared of the job.

Is it murder? No. Maybe manslaughter.

 

[Eddie]

It does appear that the biker was reaching for something in his waistband however I think the cop was a little quick on pulling the trigger. This is going to be a tough one. My bet is that we see a hung jury. This is the sort of case where reasonable minds can disagree.

 

[Mike_Indy]

I have to say bad shoot. He never turns toward the officer, He was straddling a bike and would not be able to easily turn and shoot an officer that seems to be at his 7-o'clock position. He could have been reaching for his wallet.

Assuming the officer was on high alert and had his gun drawn, he had the advantage. He could have allowed more time to see if this was an aggressive action, while still having time to take action if needed... Bad shoot in a tough situation.

 

[Bapak2ja]

I have written previously on INGO that I intensely dislike cops. Their arrogance and aggressiveness irritate me, anger me. I do not like them.

However, as I have also written, if these cops are not arrogant and aggressive, they are soon dead. I salute, honor and respect the cops for doing this essential job. I always comply with their directions, and I make sure my hands are clearly visible, moving slowly. I tell them what I am doing in advance because I know they are on high alert—and must be if they want to stay alive.

This bike rider did not follow my example. He should have put his hands out away from his body, clearly visible as empty, until the officer could make a decision that the biker was not a threat. If he had done that, he would still running wild on Friday night. Bad choice by the biker.

The cop, in my opinion, was too quick on the trigger, especially if he was undercover behind the car door as mentioned in one of the posts above. From such cover, he could have ordered the man to show hands, dismount, etc. The biker could have complied, threat alleviated. From a position of cover, the cop was able give the biker the benefit of the doubt.

My conclusion: Bad shoot. Cop should be removed from the force. No jail time or fine, just get the firearm out of his hands—permanently. He should be barred from any future employment in law enforcement or security of any kind that requires him to carry a weapon. He should not be allowed to carry as a civilian, either. He did his job, but without the proper skill and judgement. This was his failure.

The community that hired this cop should pay medical expenses, long-term care costs and living expenses for the rest of the biker's life. They hired this cop and failed to train him to act properly and to exercise proper judgment. This was a failure of the department.

Just my opinion on a very, very tough situation.

 

[CVictor]

INCREDIBLY bad shoot!!!!

The guy was sitting there calmly for a good 10 seconds before the officer even got out of the car (while he was still driving, actually), would he really have waited until he had a gun pointed at him if he planned on shooting the officer?!

Lock his a** up he doesn't deserve to have a badge

 

[E5RANGER375]

cop needs to go to jail for a long long time. whats fair for us citizens is fair for cops too! we citizens would be going to jail, but im sure he will just get a slap on the hand, and probly be working as a cop somewhere else shortly. shame on the system!!!

 

[E5RANGER375]

That movement he made with his right arm going back and hand movement at the belt level sure as heck looked to me that it was an attempt to pull a concealed handgun.

Also, notice the biker did note turn left towards the officers, but towards the right making it look like he was trying to face away or perhaps hide something.

Plus the officer did not have the luxury of seeing the straight behind video, but a view from the left rear quarter that more than likely presented itself to looking even more like he was trying to.

All of you people who say that you would not have reacted that way, you can say that till the cows come home. You put yourself in that officer's position and I'll bet 99 out of 100 times you'll react the same way he did.

I ASURE YOU I WOULDNT!!! the guy would have to be a pretzle to get off any kind of an acurate shot turning in that direction without changing position on the bike. if he was wanting to shoot the cop with his FINGER (cause thats all he was armed with) then he would have turned the other way. the dumb cop had his finger on the trigger. a no no. cops a criminal, and needs to go to jail

 

[CVictor]

cop needs to go to jail for a long long time. whats fair for us citizens is fair for cops too! we citizens would be going to jail, but im sure he will just get a slap on the hand, and probly be working as a cop somewhere else shortly. shame on the system!!!

Agree completely, that is so far from a justified shooting it should be considered attempted murder and he should be charged accordingly. At no point was his life even remotely in danger.

It's not easy to see sirens when you're on a bike, he stopped shortly after they were turned on, he had no more than 1 or 2 seconds to put his hands up considering he was fired upon practically as soon as the d****** officer got out of the car.

What does he get for it pulling over and trying to do what he should be doing in that situation? Oh, nothing, just to give up the use of his limbs for the rest of his life. Give me a break. Shoot the cop in the spine for all i care, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.

 

[IndyBeerman]

I ASURE YOU I WOULDNT!!! the guy would have to be a pretzle to get off any kind of an acurate shot turning in that direction without changing position on the bike. if he was wanting to shoot the cop with his FINGER (cause thats all he was armed with) then he would have turned the other way. the dumb cop had his finger on the trigger. a no no. cops a criminal, and needs to go to jail

Here's the thing, you ASSUME he's going to continue turning right. I would not assume that. For all practical purposes there is no reason for the biker to be turning right, NONE. His first and foremost movement should be turning left to dismount or if anything to make better eye contact and making sure he keep his hands on the bars because there was no way he was going to correctly see the officer by going right.

Your first body movement goes a long way and his pivoting to the right with the shoulder/arm movement looks exactly like a precursor to drawing a weapon in my opinion, all while trying keep it somewhat hidden from the officers view which looks to be around the bikers 8 o'clock area.

Sure the officer MIGHT have shown some more restraint, but you know what, there has been times that LEO's and even our fellow service men over sea's are dead because a "little" extra restraint was shown. Even you yourself must admit that.