US Soliders charged w/ murdering civilians and collecting fingers

[lashicoN]

That works out great for most people, I guess. I'm jut not a big fan of other people securing things for me.

Yes, those people volunteer, they signed up on their own. But when they signed up, they signed up for a paycheck given to them by the tax payers. I don't care what you think, you answer to the people, when the people pay you to do a job. You always answer to your boss, every job. All public jobs eventually lead back to the people paying them for it. You can't really argue with that.

 

[UncleMike]

That works out great for most people, I guess. I'm jut not a big fan of other people securing things for me.

Yes, those people volunteer, they signed up on their own. But when they signed up, they signed up for a paycheck given to them by the tax payers. I don't care what you think, you answer to the people, when the people pay you to do a job. You always answer to your boss, every job. All public jobs eventually lead back to the people paying them for it. You can't really argue with that.

I can pretty much argue with anything you say.
It's just not worth the effort.
Mike

 

[lashicoN]

I can pretty much argue with anything you say.
It's just not worth the effort.
Mike

Really? So you're saying that public servants aren't actually servants to the public? That's your argument, huh?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

does anyone else think some whinny little baby who was a total f*** up and didnt get along with any of his fellow soldiers, could have just made this story up to get back at them?

I was kinda thinking the same thing myself, in the one article the guy told on them because they were smoking hash in his quarters, and didn't say anything about "hunting civilians" and the rest until after he had his ass beat.

Wouldn't most people be a bit more likely to tell about psychopaths who are hunting civilians compared to lets say smoking hash? For myself I know which one I would most likely report.

I'm taking this story with about a LB of salt until I hear more.

At the risk of sounding emotional.... Until you have been in the moment - adrenal gland pumping, ears ringing, confused, disoriented, your friend or friends bleeding out and dustoff 10 minutes out, you don't know how you will act, what you will do or what you will not do. So IF YOU HAVE BEEN THERE, your comments are worthy of note. If not, STFU. The men and women of our armed forces have been taking care of business for a couple of hundred years and are capable of handling this problem - if there is one. Another rush to judgement.

Have you ever been a politician? Ever been there trying to get a bill you know needs to be passed and knowing it won't unless you vote for a bill that shouldn't be passed? Or had to vote for a bill that should be passed even though the people didn't want it? If not I guess you should just STFU about politicians right? And the same could go for LEO or lawyers or any other often bashed profession. You would agree with that wouldn't you? Not quite a even comparison but imo apt.

STFU might be a little strong. Is **** up a rope any better?

For myself? Much better. You are stating your opinion of someone else's. Rather than (how it sounds to me) that they have no right to their opinion and to just STFU

Uhhh, does "judged by a jury of one's peers" sound familiar? For me to be judged for something I did while in combat, by someone who has not been in combat, would be as unjust as any misdeed I may have committed.

Jay, I usually agree with you on most things. Yes a "jury of one's peers" does sound familiar. IMO it means that you have the right to be not be convicted by the Govt alone you have the right to a trial by other citizens. It does not mean that your "peers" have to have the same experiences/background as you.

Do you think a disadvantaged inner city yoot, that has never known his daddy only a long line of "uncles", should only have on his jury people from the same background as him? Or the same for a privlidged punk from suburbia who's never wanted for anything and believes that they deserve what ever they want? Or a bank president? Or a LEO? Or do you think there should be a random selection of jurors from all walks of life? If not for them why for soldiers?

 

[Booya]

Really? So you're saying that public servants aren't actually servants to the public? That's your argument, huh?

I'm not a public servant, I don't work with the public, per say. I don't work at the DMV. I don't answer to the public, I answer only to my chain of command, I have no "boss" outside of that.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

The public just happens to benefit from my service.

I see your point here and now I'm just being argumentative. You just have to understand that none of us will view our service in the same light as a DMV clerk or a postal carrier (great jobs I'm sure). Just because we get paid via federal $$ (tax $$) has ZERO bearing on what we OWE the public. If you haven't raised your hand and answered the call, you sort of don't rate to question those that have. Let their peers (fellow service members) do the questioning.

 

[downzero]

The public doesn't just benefit from your service. Your oath, and the constitution you swore to, is an act that was created by and for the people.

Perhaps in those words you forgot the history behind them.

Having been in the military and worked for the USPS, I beg to differ. The oath was the exact same (verbatim) for both. The missions were different, but the trust that the public has in both, is similar. They expect you to do your job.

In fact, one of my favorite things about working for the USPS, was handling the APO mail going overseas to our troops, some of whom, I'm sure, were once my battle buddies.

 

[E5RANGER375]

That point is completely lost on "some people".
Without the Military, Fire, Police, EMT and other Emergency Personnel who VOLUNTEER to risk their lives for the good of the Public there would be NO security or safety in the country at all.
Mike

eh, i dont get all emotional like some about "answering the call". Sure some of that was involved in it for me, because of the way i grew up. but honestly i wanted to be the best and be put to the test. and playing with all the best toys in the world wasnt that bad either

i dont care what job you have, the dirtiest, filthiest, deadliest, etc...... job there is. theres always gonna be crazy mo fo's that take it to get paid. because gettin paid, is always better than not gettin paid. now granted, theres a bunch of people who would be soldiers for free if they had no outside bills, but who wouldnt for almost any job??? we work to pay bills and taxes and then we die. and try to squeeze in some fun every now and again. thats life. so before people go on a emotional parade about how dangerous it is to be a cop, fireman, emt, soldier, etc..., just think of how dangerous it was for that guy who cought that freakin lobster or crab on your plate at red lobster. much more dangerous than a lot of public service jobs. or how about the guy who climbs a freakin wood pole and plays with electricity everyday so you can watch your porn on TV?

sure we know its dangerous, but most of us love or loved our job and thats why we did it. the best way you can pay back a soldier who fought and died for you, is to stand up yourselves for your rights. dont just hand them away the next time your pulled over. think of the men who died for you to have the right to remain silent and not be unjustly prosecuted. now, ponder that for a bit.

 

[Lex Concord]

eh, i dont get all emotional like some about "answering the call". Sure some of that was involved in it for me, because of the way i grew up. but honestly i wanted to be the best and be put to the test. and playing with all the best toys in the world wasnt that bad either

i dont care what job you have, the dirtiest, filthiest, deadliest, etc...... job there is. theres always gonna be crazy mo fo's that take it to get paid. because gettin paid, is always better than not gettin paid. now granted, theres a bunch of people who would be soldiers for free if they had no outside bills, but who wouldnt for almost any job??? we work to pay bills and taxes and then we die. and try to squeeze in some fun every now and again. thats life. so before people go on a emotional parade about how dangerous it is to be a cop, fireman, emt, soldier, etc..., just think of how dangerous it was for that guy who cought that freakin lobster or crab on your plate at red lobster. much more dangerous than a lot of public service jobs. or how about the guy who climbs a freakin wood pole and plays with electricity everyday so you can watch your porn on TV?

sure we know its dangerous, but most of us love or loved our job and thats why we did it. the best way you can pay back a soldier who fought and died for you, is to stand up yourselves for your rights. dont just hand them away the next time your pulled over. think of the men who died for you to have the right to remain silent and not be unjustly prosecuted. now, ponder that for a bit.

I'd rep you but it won't let me.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I'm not a public servant, I don't work with the public, per say. I don't work at the DMV. I don't answer to the public, I answer only to my chain of command, I have no "boss" outside of that.

Actually that is about the same for quite a few bureaucrats, would you consider a middle managment type of guy in the BMV or the USPS who never works with the public, doesn't answer to them only his chain of command and has no "boss" outside of that a public servant? I'm not saying you are or not, just pointing something out.

If you haven't raised your hand and answered the call, you sort of don't rate to question those that have. Let their peers (fellow service members) do the questioning.

Have you ran for office and been elected? Or have you been a civilian LEO? Or went to school and passed the bar to become a lawyer? If not you don't rate to question those that have. Let their peers (fellow politicians/LEO/lawyer) do the questioning. Would you agree with that statement? If not why not.

 

[downzero]

eh, i dont get all emotional like some about "answering the call". Sure some of that was involved in it for me, because of the way i grew up. but honestly i wanted to be the best and be put to the test. and playing with all the best toys in the world wasnt that bad either

i dont care what job you have, the dirtiest, filthiest, deadliest, etc...... job there is. theres always gonna be crazy mo fo's that take it to get paid. because gettin paid, is always better than not gettin paid. now granted, theres a bunch of people who would be soldiers for free if they had no outside bills, but who wouldnt for almost any job??? we work to pay bills and taxes and then we die. and try to squeeze in some fun every now and again. thats life. so before people go on a emotional parade about how dangerous it is to be a cop, fireman, emt, soldier, etc..., just think of how dangerous it was for that guy who cought that freakin lobster or crab on your plate at red lobster. much more dangerous than a lot of public service jobs. or how about the guy who climbs a freakin wood pole and plays with electricity everyday so you can watch your porn on TV?

sure we know its dangerous, but most of us love or loved our job and thats why we did it. the best way you can pay back a soldier who fought and died for you, is to stand up yourselves for your rights. dont just hand them away the next time your pulled over. think of the men who died for you to have the right to remain silent and not be unjustly prosecuted. now, ponder that for a bit.

It's pretty amazing to me that you always seem to hit the nail so squarely on the head.

Your last paragraph is the reason why I want to be a lawyer so bad. Sure, every vet wrote a blank check to our society for their life, if necessary, to defend freedom.

But not everyone who defends freedom does it with a rifle. I did, but my new calling is to defend the rights of people at home.

I won't claim that there's any glamor in doing research and typing briefs, or going to hearings and oral arguments...but the point remains, one that you made yourself.....

The best service we can do to our fallen is to defend the rights that they died for. And they're under fire from every direction, everywhere we look. Every suspicionless stop, every abuse of power, and every fraudulent, waste of oxygen public servant who takes from the public purse and bites the hand that feeds must be held accountable. And most of the time, that accountability comes in the form of media, speech, discussion, and courts, among other things. Freedom isn't just defended by violence. Just think of the men who signed the Declaration of Independence.

Not all of them fought, physically. But they knew what they believed in, and they did something about it. That's what freedom is all about, because without those people, we won't have any freedom to pass onto our children. It'll just be something we talk about--a thing that the USA used to stand for....but couldn't handle and so it was taken away.

We owe it to ourselves and all of posterity to assure that freedom is defended on every front, indefinitely.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I spun it out of control, huh? Yeah, I totally misinterpreted these posts.
Look at all that red that I just pulled out of thin air...

Originally Posted by lashicoN
STFU? Are you serious? I really wish I didn't constantly be a **** on here and remind people where public servants stand in our society. If your salary is paid by tax payers, then you answer to tax payers. You answer their questions and if you want to keep your job, your retirement, and your freedom, you don't say "You haven't been there. STFU." When we ask "Why did you cut off people's fingers for trophies?"

If that story is true, adrenaline, training, the situation doesn't matter. You don't hunt human beings for sport and your don't cut off their fingers. Wow. I can't believe I even have to remind you guys of that. That's pretty disgusting.

Your opinion makes sense about shootouts, making quick decisions, and everything else that occurs in a war. Making the decision to hunt civilians and cut off their fingers as trophies has absolutely nothing to do with your friend bleeding out, your adrenaline glands pumping, or your ears ringing. That makes you a serial killer, plain and simple. Since this hasn't been proven yet, my comments are coming from a hypothetical view. Isn't it something we can all agree on that American soldiers shouldn't hunt civilians and cut off their fingers as trophies?

Um, not to be picky or anything, but the post you have with the most red is one you posted yourself. Can you really quote yourself and defend that you were simply responding to yourself?

So yeah, I would say you did pull it out of thin air. But that's just me.

Just sayin.

 

[Expat]

Um, not to be picky or anything, but the post you have with the most red is one you posted yourself. Can you really quote yourself and defend that you were simply responding to yourself?

So yeah, I would say you did pull it out of thin air. But that's just me.

Just sayin.

Maybe he is this guy....

 

[irishfan]

eh, i dont get all emotional like some about "answering the call". Sure some of that was involved in it for me, because of the way i grew up. but honestly i wanted to be the best and be put to the test. and playing with all the best toys in the world wasnt that bad either

i dont care what job you have, the dirtiest, filthiest, deadliest, etc...... job there is. theres always gonna be crazy mo fo's that take it to get paid. because gettin paid, is always better than not gettin paid. now granted, theres a bunch of people who would be soldiers for free if they had no outside bills, but who wouldnt for almost any job??? we work to pay bills and taxes and then we die. and try to squeeze in some fun every now and again. thats life. so before people go on a emotional parade about how dangerous it is to be a cop, fireman, emt, soldier, etc..., just think of how dangerous it was for that guy who cought that freakin lobster or crab on your plate at red lobster. much more dangerous than a lot of public service jobs. or how about the guy who climbs a freakin wood pole and plays with electricity everyday so you can watch your porn on TV?

sure we know its dangerous, but most of us love or loved our job and thats why we did it. the best way you can pay back a soldier who fought and died for you, is to stand up yourselves for your rights. dont just hand them away the next time your pulled over. think of the men who died for you to have the right to remain silent and not be unjustly prosecuted. now, ponder that for a bit.

You hit it spot on right there! The only difference between me and you saying it is that SOME military guys can't bash you because you were in but if me or another person said it they would hammer away. I know that I will never play with electricity for a living or even wash windows 200ft in the air so I give those guys credit for having balls that won't go through a metal detector.

 

[ATF Consumer]

the best way you can pay back a soldier who fought and died for you, is to stand up yourselves for your rights. dont just hand them away the next time your pulled over. think of the men who died for you to have the right to remain silent and not be unjustly prosecuted. now, ponder that for a bit.

Those who fought during the Revolutionary war certainly do deserve every bit of thanks and appreciation for what they have done to protect our freedoms.
What is currently going on over there has nothing to do with protecting our freedoms on our mainland whatsoever! The only thing I have seen happen to my rights so far is further infringements! If you believe otherwise, I ask what flavor is your favorite?

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Those who fought during the Revolutionary war certainly do deserve every bit of thanks and appreciation for what they have done to protect our freedoms.
What is currently going on over there has nothing to do with protecting our freedoms on our mainland whatsoever! The only thing I have seen happen to my rights so far is further infringements! If you believe otherwise, I ask what flavor is your favorite?

So if we didn't have the tweakers focused over there, you don't think they would be planning how to attack us over here?

We are going to fight these people, by their choice, not ours. There is no doubt about that. The real question is whether we want to destroy our own property or theirs while doing so.

Our only saving grace is that they are too stupid to realize that all they have to do is stop shooting at us and we'll go home.

 

[ATF Consumer]

So if we didn't have the tweakers focused over there, you don't think they would be planning how to attack us over here?

You seriously think they are not planning anything? And that us being over there is going to stop them?

We are going to fight these people, by their choice, not ours. There is no doubt about that. The real question is whether we want to destroy our own property or theirs while doing so.

They are happy to have us over there because they have targets continually falling into their traps, making easy kills on their part.

Our only saving grace is that they are too stupid to realize that all they have to do is stop shooting at us and we'll go home.

I think it is the other way around...we are too stupid and think the actions we are attempting is going to make them stop!

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

You seriously think they are not planning anything? And that us being over there is going to stop them?


They are happy to have us over there because they have targets continually falling into their traps, making easy kills on their part.


I think it is the other way around...we are too stupid and think the actions we are attempting is going to make them stop!

Yes they are planning something. But their best and brightest minds have responded to the call for Jihad and are focusing on how to defeat us. I'd rather have a hack work on a bomb and try to detonate it in Times Square than a real bomb maker. You?

Really, how many easy kills do they make? What's the ratio of our kills to theirs? We've lost about 1100 troops in Afganistan. That's 1100 too many. But they've lost about 15,000. I'd say we're doing better.

Maybe you don't understand our purpose in Afganistan. It's not to kill Jihadists. It's to take away their ability to train, plan, and stage for war against us from Afgan soil. That means getting a government in place that can protect its own territory.

So would you rather have 30 - 40 people die on a bus that's blown up, or a couple hundred blown up in Times Square, or another plane flown into another building? Shut down all retail commerce because people are afraid to go shopping at a mall because they could be shot dead in the parking lot in a random attack by a terrorist? That's what will start happening if we don't keep them preoccupied.

Now if it were me, I would destroy Medina and tell the tweakers to clean their act up or we're going to turn Mecca into a nuclear wasteland, and nobody will get to go on haj for 10,000 years. Wouldn't require a single set of boots on the ground. But I don't get to be in charge.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Yes they are planning something. But their best and brightest minds have responded to the call for Jihad and are focusing on how to defeat us. I'd rather have a hack work on a bomb and try to detonate it in Times Square than a real bomb maker. You?

And we somehow know they are falling in line with our plan?

Really, how many easy kills do they make? What's the ratio of our kills to theirs? We've lost about 1100 troops in Afganistan. That's 1100 too many. But they've lost about 15,000. I'd say we're doing better.

I am ill to think the death of our soldiers are justified because we killed more of them.

Maybe you don't understand our purpose in Afganistan. It's not to kill Jihadists. It's to take away their ability to train, plan, and stage for war against us from Afgan soil. That means getting a government in place that can protect its own territory.

Oh...I see, just like we made Iraq a stable government.

So would you rather have 30 - 40 people die on a bus that's blown up, or a couple hundred blown up in Times Square, or another plane flown into another building? Shut down all retail commerce because people are afraid to go shopping at a mall because they could be shot dead in the parking lot in a random attack by a terrorist? That's what will start happening if we don't keep them preoccupied.

Of course I wouldn't want that, but you actually think we are stopping that because we are over there killing Afghans?

Now if it were me, I would destroy Medina and tell the tweakers to clean their act up or we're going to turn Mecca into a nuclear wasteland, and nobody will get to go on haj for 10,000 years. Wouldn't require a single set of boots on the ground. But I don't get to be in charge.

You would be killing many innocent lives, but I guess as long as the US citizens are safe, that is all that counts.
I'm all about fighting terror, but it doesn't take 150k worth of troops to do the job.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

And we somehow know they are falling in line with our plan?

Yes, we do. There hasn't been a successful attack, of any size, on our soil for nine years.

I am ill to think the death of our soldiers are justified because we killed more of them.

No, the death of our soldiers is justified (your term) because they are preventing attacks on America. As someone that stood on that line, while I don't like it I'm OK with it. That's after all what the military does.

It's the difference between the guy that steps up and the guy that doesn't. The guy that steps up knows the potential consequences and does it anyway. The guy that doesn't runs and hides.

Oh...I see, just like we made Iraq a stable government.

Subject change. Not playing.

Of course I wouldn't want that, but you actually think we are stopping that because we are over there killing Afghans?

Yep, for the reasons stated previously.

You would be killing many innocent lives, but I guess as long as the US citizens are safe, that is all that counts.
I'm all about fighting terror, but it doesn't take 150k worth of troops to do the job.

Let there be no doubt. I would kill every single enemy America has in the world to protect a single innocent citizen of this country.

In ancient times a Roman citizen was free to travel anywhere in the empire, because the conquered know that if any harm came to that citizen, the wrath of Rome would rain down on the land. There were no measured responses. There was only the unmitigated wrath of Rome. They would send in legions to kill thousands over one dead Roman. Yeah, I'm good with that.

 

[lashicoN]

I'm not a public servant, I don't work with the public, per say. I don't work at the DMV. I don't answer to the public, I answer only to my chain of command, I have no "boss" outside of that.

I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

OK...who do you believe appoints those officers? And how does that person get elected? I'm sorry man, like it or not, you still work for and answer ultimately to the people. If a guy ran for President on the issue to disband our ever-standing armies and got elected by the people, perhaps you would feel differently.

Um, not to be picky or anything, but the post you have with the most red is one you posted yourself. Can you really quote yourself and defend that you were simply responding to yourself?

So yeah, I would say you did pull it out of thin air. But that's just me.

Just sayin.

Huh...I really don't think I did. I'll color coordinate to show what I was answering to here to stop this confusion.

At the risk of sounding emotional.... Until you have been in the moment - adrenal gland pumping, ears ringing, confused, disoriented, your friend or friends bleeding out and dustoff 10 minutes out, you don't know how you will act, what you will do or what you will not do. So IF YOU HAVE BEEN THERE, your comments are worthy of note. If not, STFU. The men and women of our armed forces have been taking care of business for a couple of hundred years and are capable of handling this problem - if there is one. Another rush to judgement.

However, this being the etherland of the internet where everyone is a hero, a pundit and the Wonderful Wizzard Of Oz, I know that will never happen so flame away.

That ^ pretty well says it........ Repped

STFU? Are you serious? I really wish I didn't constantly be a **** on here and remind people where public servants stand in our society. If your salary is paid by tax payers, then you answer to tax payers. You answer their questions and if you want to keep your job, your retirement, and your freedom, you don't say "You haven't been there. STFU." When we ask "Why did you cut off people's fingers for trophies?"

If that story is true, adrenaline, training, the situation doesn't matter. You don't hunt human beings for sport and your don't cut off their fingers. Wow. I can't believe I even have to remind you guys of that. That's pretty disgusting.

Your opinion makes sense about shootouts, making quick decisions, and everything else that occurs in a war. Making the decision to hunt civilians and cut off their fingers as trophies has absolutely nothing to do with your friend bleeding out, your adrenaline glands pumping, or your ears ringing. That makes you a serial killer, plain and simple. Since this hasn't been proven yet, my comments are coming from a hypothetical view. Isn't it something we can all agree on that American soldiers shouldn't hunt civilians and cut off their fingers as trophies?

The original post was a story about soldiers hunting down civilians for sport and taking their fingers as trophies. So when r3126 said basically "Things get crazy, if you haven't been there, then you don't get to question anything, so STFU." Since he was typing that in a thread about this specific story, I assumed he was talking about this specific story.

Now, I see that he was perhaps talking about different incidents? Which really only further proves that I wasn't the one who derailed this thread. I believed, at the time, that I was responding to someone who was saying "Hey, man, you haven't been there. You don't know what it's like when people are trying to kill you on a daily basis, so don't talk to us about fingers. STFU." That's why I responded the way I did, and I believe I completely overly pointed out what I was responding to, so I don't see how anyone here can construe this post in any other way that I didn't intend. Hopefully the confusion is at an end.

Expat, I have way more piercings than that and a huge tattoo on my face as well. It says GothKid, cause that was my nickname in middle school.