US Soldier Shot for Drinking water

[MyGlockRocks19]

I drank and ate in front of a muslim during Ramadan once...I felt kinda bad, because he was thirsty as hell and wouldn't even have a glass of water...but we joked about it, and he didn't shoot me. He called me an *******, but no shots were fired, and laughs were had.

Not a popular viewpoint sometimes...but its not the religion, its the people. Granted, the religion is the excuse they give for being intolerant scumbags, but having known a few muslims, and finding them to be decent people, I have a hard time thinking that just because you read the Koran instead of the Bible, it makes you a wild eyed fundamentalist.

Religion can be perverted to any purpose man puts it to...Muslims aren't the only people to take religious fervor too far, although I'll grant that they corner the market. Shooting someone who doesn't hold with your beliefs, though....I've heard of this kind of thing happening before....the tools have been different, but its been a common theme throughout the history of humanity.

I dunno....I most certainly am not trying to excuse this behavior, but before we all go off raving about how muslims are barbarians once again, realize that people of other religions have done things just as bad and worse. Be careful about painting with too broad a brush, it limits your perspective.

 

[dburkhead]

We see that isn't exactly working too well...where is that Bin Laden anyway???

Were's Bin Laden? Almost certainly in an unmarked grave somewhere with his last few months/years spent spent on the run and hiding. To put things in perspective: How long did it take them to catch Josef Mengele after WWII. Oh. That's right. They never did. He died of natural causes while living in comfort in Brazil.

I'll tell you what we can expect...more US soldier casualties while they will always continue to recruit more radicals for their cause...as long as we are over there, this will be an open ended battle.

Better to fight them over there than over here.

We took out the German regime in just a couple of years...how many more years must we sacrifice our brave young men and women's lives in an attempt to kill something that will never die?

1939-1945, six years that the war was fought (although direct US involvement was only from, call it 1942 you can't dismiss that the war was ongoing from well before that). It was also a different war with different constraints. As for the "something that will never die" that's pure propaganda. It's an assumption without any factual basis to back it up. The casualty rates for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are the lowest in history. They're closer to the peacetime casualty rates for training accidents than they are to other wars we've fought. And in the meantime, we're fighting them over there rather than over here. The folk I know who are in the military would rather the fight take place over there rather than we sit here in the US fat, dumb, and complacent and wait for the war to come to us. The main complaint is that it's not being treated as an actual war but is being fought with "ROE's" that are more appropriate to a Cub Scout campout than to a shooting war.

 

[dburkhead]

Not exactly, but I wasn't refering to Afgan anyway. I was talking about Iraq in that post. Afganistan was with a REAL purpose.

Despite what the media has told you, there were quite a few real purposes in the Iraq war.

As just one factor, you might want to consider just where the "insurgents" in Iraq came from and where they would have been had they not been in Iraq.

Iraq, basically, has served as a honey trap for Islamic extremists for years. Iraq gets the press so they come to Iraq rather than go to Afghanistan. The terrain, even the urban terrain, is a lot easier for fighting insurgents than that of Afghanistan. So they come to Iraq and they die. And the middle-eastern gene pool gets a bit more chlorine.

While they're fighting in Iraq, they are not fighting in Afghanistan where they are harder to dig out. They are not planning and carrying out new attacks against US civilians. They are, instead, facing folk who are perfectly willing to send them on to their 72 white raisins, and who are doing so while suffering fewer casualties than in any war in history.

Don't believe the media propaganda.

 

[dburkhead]

You guys do know that all the oil from Iraq went to the Bush and Cheney family businesses, right? The whole, Saddam/Bush Sr. oil deal? The reason we went after Iraq the first and second time around? You don't really think we cared about their WMD's do you?

SE, put down the TV remote and step away from CNN. Unless you are being sarcastic up above, you have drunk (all unknowingly) entirely too much kool aid.

 

[dburkhead]

Follow the money. Bush had a deal with saddam for oil. You don't really think they pumped all their oil in TX do you? I have all the links and proof on my HDD but there's one small problem. The motor failed and I can't extract the info on my own. I'd track it all back down, but I'm sure what remains of the proof would come from sites you would consider too "Tinfoilish" to be true.

I do have the AP articles and other reputable sources, but like I said, I can't get to them. Unless you pay for the HDD data extraction that is.

Maybe not so much the second Iraq war, but certainly the first.

When it comes to politics, the AP is about as reputable as the late, lamented Weekly World News. That the "proof" is from "tinfoilish" sites should be a hint.

I have followed the money and it runs back to France, Germany, and the family of Kofi Annan--the one's most strongly benefiting from status quo ante and who, surprisingly enough, who protested the change that came from reigniting the war.

 

[SavageEagle]

Not all my sources were AP. It was just an interesting article that backed up some of my material with some nice facts.

Again, I don't expect anyone to believe me until I can get the proof. The connection was there. It died with Saddam. Why do you think they wanted to execute him so bad and not these terrorists we have/had in Gitmo? Why would they, here, want so bad to execute Saddam and not those who have actually killed American's with their own two hands?

I'm not going to argue this point anymore because obviously no one believes me. The connection is there and was a huge motivating factor for Desert Storm. It's always been about the Oil. And not just Iraqi or Kuwaiti oil either. Why do you think our government panders so much to the Saudi's and Egyptian's? We might not get most our oil from them, but then why would gas spike to $5/gal when they cut us off?

 

[ATF Consumer]

As for the "something that will never die" that's pure propaganda. It's an assumption without any factual basis to back it up.

I believe we have proof that shows a history of conflict between the two religions ever since we've had the ability to document such occurances...where the propaganda is in that, I have no idea.
You can simply look at history and see that it is not propaganda and is most certainly fact.

 

[ATF Consumer]

I think it is very very sad that simply because some of you disagree with Savage Eagle, you are resorting to the same low blows in which the leftist media has done with the rallies and protesters...tried to discount his words...just as the media has called us racist and astroturf...He hasn't been drinking too much, but you want to discount his views on such...

 

[CombatVet]

We see that isn't exactly working too well...where is that Bin Laden anyway??? . . .

That's a good question. The U.S. doesn't want him. They had several chances years ago when I was there. Saw an American reporter talk to him and get sound/some video while he was north of Khost. We never wanted to find Bin Laden. If we found him we'd have to leave. Then our real work wouldn't be done.

Back to the story, when I was there the Afghanies knew we drank water during Ramadan. I usually asked or just turned my back to them out of respect. The thing that most people don't realize is that they wake up an hour before dawn and feast for the day. They eat and drink the same amount of food, but at a different time of day. Then sleep a lot during the day because they were up all night.

We KNEW to watch the "police" when we were there. Most of them where/are Taliban/Al Quadai. Now they get to shoot people "legally". It's all just smoke and mirrors.

 

[Prometheus]

So this "nation-building" to make these countries much more inhospitable to the radicals like the Taliban and Al Queda is a bad thing? To keep the nutcases on the run, and not settled and able to plan more attacks like 9/11 here, or any of the other terror attacks scattered across the globe is not worth our time?

Thats a ridiculous ascertion. Unless you plan on rebuilding virtually the entire globe.

Honestly, think about it. Do you really believe that iraq and afganistan are the only two contries 'hospitable' for terrorists? Heck virtually the entire continent of Africa is available.

Let me guess, darfur should be our next stop?

Somebody watched "Team America: World police" one too many times... you people do realize it was satire right?

 

[El Cazador]

I think it is very very sad that simply because some of you disagree with Savage Eagle, you are resorting to the same low blows in which the leftist media has done with the rallies and protesters...tried to discount his words...just as the media has called us racist and astroturf...He hasn't been drinking too much, but you want to discount his views on such...

Yes, we might have been having a bit of fun with SE because his chinstrap on his tin helmet was/is cinched a bit too tight. But even he's admitted (fairly often) his views have been fogged by brew when he starts posting views that have been debunked pretty well. Hung by his own petard .

He also is not "following the money" by citing some of his less than rational sources that either do not take into effect economic facts that drive everyone no matter their geo-political affiliation, or who conveniently bypass proven events to "prove" their own versions of what happened and why.

Hey, SE isn't the first guy to see pink elephants when looking through the bottom of a bottle. We're giving him the benefit of doubt that it IS the barley pop talking. Otherwise...

 

[ATF Consumer]

Yes, we might have been having a bit of fun with SE because his chinstrap on his tin helmet was/is cinched a bit too tight. But even he's admitted (fairly often) his views have been fogged by brew when he starts posting views that have been debunked pretty well. Hung by his own petard .

He also is not "following the money" by citing some of his less than rational sources that either do not take into effect economic facts that drive everyone no matter their geo-political affiliation, or who conveniently bypass proven events to "prove" their own versions of what happened and why.

Hey, SE isn't the first guy to see pink elephants when looking through the bottom of a bottle. We're giving him the benefit of doubt that it IS the barley pop talking. Otherwise...

You're still doing it in your reply...You are acting no better than Nancy Peloci or the MSM...if you disagree with him, disagree with him, but please stop these insulting comments, they are only losing you credibility yourself.

 

[El Cazador]

Thats a ridiculous ascertion. Unless you plan on rebuilding virtually the entire globe.

Honestly, think about it. Do you really believe that iraq and afganistan are the only two contries 'hospitable' for terrorists? Heck virtually the entire continent of Africa is available.

Let me guess, darfur should be our next stop?

Somebody watched "Team America: World police" one too many times... you people do realize it was satire right?

You never answered my questions: Are you comfortable fighting them here? Do you disagree the fight is drawing them to those countries, instead of here? Are you OK with completely isolating the US by banning any travel out of country?

Or are you willing to accept them?

 

[El Cazador]

You're still doing it in your reply...You are acting no better than Nancy Peloci or the MSM...if you disagree with him, disagree with him, but please stop these insulting comments, they are only losing you credibility yourself.

Ah. So, in reality, I'm disagreeing with you too, then? And you object to the common use of "wearing a tin-foil hat/helmet/beanie/oil funnel" because it comes a bit close?

 

[ATF Consumer]

You never answered my questions: Are you comfortable fighting them here? Do you disagree the fight is drawing them to those countries, instead of here? Are you OK with completely isolating the US by banning any travel out of country?

Or are you willing to accept them?

We don't have to completely isolate ourselves to protect us from this threat.
Some are already here...others will be coming....this can't be completely stopped. The fight isn't keeping them all over there. It is only building more of a resistance for their cause and killing our brave men and women in doing so.
Tell me, where else does Israel send their fighters to keep them safe?
From what I understand, they only send their troops across boarders when they have been attacked...not trying to nation build or protect themselves by fighting a force outside their borders as a means of proactive security.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Ah. So, in reality, I'm disagreeing with you too, then? And you object to the common use of "wearing a tin-foil hat/helmet/beanie/oil funnel" because it comes a bit close?

I didn't say I agreed or disagreed with him...I'd actually like to see more documentation of what he is talking about before I would think he wears a tinfoil hat, but to just outright insult his position is quite rude and I find your tact insulting.

 

[spasmo]

Please keep this civil.

 

[El Cazador]

We don't have to completely isolate ourselves to protect us from this threat.
Some are already here...others will be coming....this can't be completely stopped. The fight isn't keeping them all over there. It is only building more of a resistance for their cause and killing our brave men and women in doing so.
Tell me, where else does Israel send their fighters to keep them safe?
From what I understand, they only send their troops across boarders when they have been attacked...not trying to nation build or protect themselves by fighting a force outside their borders as a means of proactive security.

So you too are willing to fight them here, or submit? Sure reads like you're ready to give up.
Have you never talked to an Israeli? They view and operate under a very different worldview than we Americans do. There are probably more Israeli Defense people operating out of uniform than in. They may not overtly nation-build, but they aren't really worried about other nations, either. Only Israel. They are also a small nation, with a small population. Honestly, it's probably a good thing they are so small. I'm not sure I'd like an Israel the size of the US.

 

[dburkhead]

I believe we have proof that shows a history of conflict between the two religions ever since we've had the ability to document such occurances...where the propaganda is in that, I have no idea.
You can simply look at history and see that it is not propaganda and is most certainly fact.

Yes, we can look at history and we can see a lot of "forever" conflicts that have died out. Consider the 30 years war. Or how about the origins of the Inquisition (note: it wasn't about witchcraft)? Then there was the mormon persecutions in the 19th century. History is full of conflicts that would never end (short of the complete annihilation of one side or the other), and yet they're, if not gone then lost in the "noise."

I see no reason whatsoever to think that this one will be any more permanent than those in the past.

 

[ATF Consumer]

So you too are willing to fight them here, or submit? Sure reads like you're ready to give up.
Have you never talked to an Israeli? They view and operate under a very different worldview than we Americans do. There are probably more Israeli Defense people operating out of uniform than in. They may not overtly nation-build, but they aren't really worried about other nations, either. Only Israel. They are also a small nation, with a small population. Honestly, it's probably a good thing they are so small. I'm not sure I'd like an Israel the size of the US.

Giving up isn't in my vocabulary.

We shouldn't be worried about other nations either, yet we subsidize them with billions of our tax dollars every year.