US doctor with Ebola in Atlanta for treatment

[HeadlessRoland]

Wow just wow. All of this is painful. Just remember ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS. Off I go to the cave to load more ammo for zombies and ebolas and thief like criminals and murderin scum and other people that deserve it but not dragons. Dragons will burn you and make you crunchy so you will taste good with ketchup. Has anyone else noticed that the whole damn country has gone off into a ditch or is it just me ??????

Billy Madison - At No Point.mp4

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Billy Madison - At No Point.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEkWH8DB7b0

Fixed it for ya HR....

Duke Short -

The country has gone off into a ditch in many ways... That said, the day we don't try to help people when we are capable, the day that we don't try to protect our own when they are engaged in honorable deeds, the day that we don't try to learn something THAT WOULD PROTECT US FROM ATTACK under VERY calculated conditions due to the miniscule risk involved - that day, sir, we have lost our soul as a country.

Yes this country HAS gone off into a ditch in many ways - this particular one isn't one of them.

 

[billt]

I am intrigued. In what way was staying to help others the wrong call?

How can you help anyone when you're DEAD? Still "intrigued"?

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

How can you help anyone when you're DEAD? Still "intrigued"?

So, every policeman who went to work this morning is making the wrong call?

 

[billt]

So, every policeman who went to work this morning is making the wrong call?

Cops are taught not to go into situations they can't control themselves without backup. It's why they have partners. If that isn't enough, they call SWAT, and the rest of the cavalry. They are smart enough to know if they get killed or hurt they can help no one, and in the process endanger many, by requiring it themselves to get out of a situation they never should have went into in the first place. Ever hear of the term "Wait for backup"? It's used on every police radio most every day. Really bad analogy.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Cops are taught not to go into situations they can't control themselves without backup. It's why they have partners. If that isn't enough, they call SWAT, and the rest of the cavalry. They are smart enough to know if they get killed or hurt they can help no one, and in the process endanger many, by requiring it themselves to get out of a situation they never should have went into in the first place. Ever hear of the term "Wait for backup"? It's used on every police radio most every day. Really bad analogy.

You said that the doctor who went to help ebola patients in Africa made the wrong call because he knew there was a risk of dying and then he wouldn't be able to help anyone else.

Every cop (well almost every cop) has some risk of dying every day, whether they "Wait for backup" or not. It still happens, yet they continue to do the job.

 

[billt]

You said that the doctor who went to help ebola patients in Africa made the wrong call because he knew there was a risk of dying and then he wouldn't be able to help anyone else.

Every cop (well almost every cop) has some risk of dying every day, whether they "Wait for backup" or not. It still happens, yet they continue to do the job.

Pushing a bad position is just that.....Bad. And not too smart. Those doctors and Chris Stevens did not have the protection they required to do their jobs in a reasonably safe manner. If they did one wouldn't be sick, and the other would still be alive. There is a difference between calculated risk, and unnecessary, foolish risk. They didn't see it, and apparently neither do you.

 

[Destro]

Cops are taught not to go into situations they can't control themselves without backup.

Backup is still a luxury in large parts of this country, but there is still a job to do and people that need help. So your correct, it is a really bad analogy.

 

[billt]

Backup is still a luxury in large parts of this country, but there is still a job to do and people that need help. So your correct, it is a really bad analogy.

You're really brave....foolish.......and careless with other peoples lives. Bravo.

 

[billt]

there is still a job to do and people that need help.

And who are the doctor and Chris Stevens "helping"?

 

[steveh_131]

And who are the doctor and Chris Stevens "helping"?

Sick people?

Or at least some of us think they're people.

 

[billt]

Sick people?

Or at least some of us think they're people.

Sick doctors and dead ambassadors aren't "helping" anyone.

 

[RockofStrength]

Pushing a bad position is just that.....Bad. And not too smart. Those doctors and Chris Stevens did not have the protection they required to do their jobs in a reasonably safe manner. If they did one wouldn't be sick, and the other would still be alive. There is a difference between calculated risk, and unnecessary, foolish risk. They didn't see it, and apparently neither do you.

There is a difference between taking a foolish risk and taking a great risk. The doctors knew full well that they might become sick themselves, but the alternative was to allow people who might otherwise survive to die or those who are dying to die in extreme pain and agony. The Africans simply do not have the resources to properly protect themselves from Ebola, so waiting on CDC-level suits and the like was not an option. Your point makes sense if they compounded the problem to no avail (the term I often hear is "just adding another victim"), but by any report their work was extremely valuable.

 

[steveh_131]

Sick doctors and dead ambassadors aren't "helping" anyone.

On the contrary. Greater love has no man than this.

 

[billt]

There is a difference between taking a foolish risk and taking a great risk. The doctors knew full well that they might become sick themselves, but the alternative was to allow people who might otherwise survive to die or those who are dying to die in extreme pain and agony. The Africans simply do not have the resources to properly protect themselves from Ebola, so waiting on CDC-level suits and the like was not an option. Your point makes sense if they compounded the problem to no avail (the term I often hear is "just adding another victim"), but by any report their work was extremely valuable.

They should not have had to wait for them. They should have been wearing them before starting on this endeavor. No one is trying to place any less "value" on their work. Or saying it wasn't necessary. They simply didn't have the proper protection that was required accomplish it in a safe manner. Proof of that is this whole mess. They proceeded anyway. A "damn the torpedo's" attitude is not a smart one. No matter if it's taken by a combat soldier, a cop, a doctor in a area of known deadly diseases, or a United States Ambassador in hostile territory. The result will always be not worth the risk taken, because the opposite will be accomplished. Both of these doctors, as well as the whole Benghazi incident proved that. Both should have known better...Period.

I can all but guarantee you if they were able to have done it all over, neither would have proceeded in the same fashion. "Tombstone Technology" will prevail here, just as it does in aircraft accidents. We will never again send these doctors into these type of areas without improved protection, just as we will never again repeatedly ignore a U.S. Ambassador's requests for improved security in a deterorating anti American hot spot. That doesn't help the present victims does it? Both could have easily been prevented.

 

[Destro]

Sick doctors and dead ambassadors aren't "helping" anyone.

I'll admit, I'm having a lot of difficulty arguing your points.

I really don't know where to start.

 

[Force10]

They should not have had to wait for them. They should have been wearing them before starting on this endeavor. No one is trying to place any less "value" on their work. Or saying it wasn't necessary. They simply didn't have the proper protection that was required accomplish it in a safe manner. Proof of that is this whole mess. They proceeded anyway. A "damn the torpedo's" attitude is not a smart one. No matter if it's taken by a combat soldier, a cop, a doctor in a area of known deadly diseases, or a United States Ambassador in hostile territory. The result will always be not worth the risk taken, because the opposite will be accomplished. Both of these doctors, as well as the whole Benghazi incident proved that. Both should have known better...Period.



I can all but guarantee you if they were able to have done it all over, neither would have proceeded in the same fashion. "Tombstone Technology" will prevail here, just as it does in aircraft accidents. We will never again send these doctors into these type of areas without improved protection, just as we will never again repeatedly ignore a U.S. Ambassador's requests for improved security in a deterorating anti American hot spot. That doesn't help the present victims does it? Both could have easily been prevented.

So they should have waited to "start the endeavor" before providing care? As a nurse and with an appreciation for my fellow man, if I come upon a car accident you can guarantee that I'll stop and provide the best possible care before back-up arrives! Do I know that it is "without risk"? No! How do I know that the person bleeding out in front of me doesn't have HIV/AIDS or some other blood-borne pathogen? I don't, but that doesn't mean I'm "careless" if I choose to perform CPR. And that is with the luxury of knowing that I'll have back-up relatively soon.

We are so ready to sell our souls to save our hides.

And I passionately disagree with your statement I highlighted. It is my conviction that this great country became independent by taking multiple "foolish" risks. George Washington should have know better before freezing a pitiable army in Valley Forge... Sometime the results are very much worth the risk.

 

[billt]

So they should have waited to "start the endeavor" before providing care? As a nurse and with an appreciation for my fellow man, if I come upon a car accident you can guarantee that I'll stop and provide the best possible care before back-up arrives! Do I know that it is "without risk"? No! How do I know that the person bleeding out in front of me doesn't have HIV/AIDS or some other blood-borne pathogen? I don't, but that doesn't mean I'm "careless" if I choose to perform CPR. And that is with the luxury of knowing that I'll have back-up relatively soon.

We are so ready to sell our souls to save our hides.

And I passionately disagree with your statement I highlighted. It is my conviction that this great country became independent by taking multiple "foolish" risks. George Washington should have know better before freezing a pitiable army in Valley Forge... Sometime the results are very much worth the risk.

Come on, work with me here. Or at least try. This isn't that hard to figure out. Risk vs. reward is usually self explanatory....Except to some here. If you feel you must take a chance in helping someone, regardless of the situation, are you going to take it if it put's you in worse shape than the person you're trying to help? Or perhaps dead? Take your car wreck example. If you can safely pull over and help without creating a more dangerous situation, fine. But are you going to dodge 8 lanes of freeway traffic at highway speeds in your Reebok's to get to it? If you have total disregard for your own life, then perhaps. Or else if your intent is to create an even bigger wreck than the one you're trying to assist in. Not too smart.

I'll give you an example of stupidly, "trying to help", and making a mess out of things in the process. Watch the track worker at 0:13 in the video as he tries to run across a race track under green, with F-1 cars passing by at over 180 MPH. He didn't do so well. And in the process he killed driver Tom Pryce when the fire extinguisher he was carrying smashed Pryce's skull when it slammed into him. Now....He was "trying to help" put out the fire in the car that had SAFELY pulled over and stopped. He took a horrifically stupid risk to do it. He not only paid the price with his own life, he took another guy with him who wasn't even involved. I can't make this any clearer.

[video=youtube;rdUhVP3tnAo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdUhVP3tnAo[/video]

 

[Wild Deuce]

*

 

[billt]

You have to love a good straw man argument.

No I "love" simple common sense. Doctors going into disease infested areas of the world without proper protection, doesn't display any more of it than that track worker did.