Untrained firearms owners

[halfmileharry]

Typical INGO thread, after a couple of days completely off the rails BUT the point about the Yoga pants is spot on Coach and one of my pet peeves. CM, if you don't have something constructive to say pleeeease bite your tongue. Now those wicked ugly mental videos have entered my head. Everyone, Please consider training! CM, the direction this is headed if I were you I would consider locking it down before it goes viral with yoga pants picturesThree things that never hide the truth from you, dogs, kids and yoga pants.

[FONT=&]NRA Life Member,[/FONT] Pistol instructor[FONT=&] / RSO[/FONT]
[FONT=&]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT]
[FONT=&]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT]

I don't want to see your old behind in yoga pants.

 

[scubatiger]

That's going too far. Every sole that buys a first gun is not irresponsible.

I am certainly a huge proponent for carriers seeking training. That said, governments stipulating and regulating training is never a good thing.

I never said everyone buying a first gun is irresponsible. Pls don't misquote me.

 

[bwframe]

As an owner of an indoor range in NE Fl, I certainly see all ends of the spectrum, from the very experienced to the absolutely incompetent. We keep RSOs on staff for the safety of all in the range, which provides an added comfort level. What frightens me more than any behavior I see on the range however, and what I haven't seen discussed here, is the ease with which concealed carry permits are issued to virtually anyone who can pass the background check. Can't speak for other states, but in Florida, there is essentially zero firearms competency which must be exhibited to obtain the license. As we have the 'luxury' of having a range in house, we require our students to fire 25-50 rounds at a target and demonstrate at least the bare minimum of competency with a weapon. But there are many gun stores conducting CWL classes that do not have a range and their 'firearms proficiency' demonstration consists literally of capping off 2 .22LR rounds into a bullet catch - period. This is appalling to me not as a range owner, but as a citizen going out in public. If you want to keep a firearm in your home for personal protection and choose not to make yourself proficient in the use of that firearm, the risk is essentially limited to you, your family members and potentially a neighbor. But when you choose to strap on that gun and take it out in public, now you're a potential safety threat to all of the innocent people around you. If you have to use your firearm for personal protection at a shopping mall or other significantly populated venue, now the risk of unintended collateral damage jumps up exponentially. If the only 'training' you've received is to pump 2 rounds at pt blank range into a bullet catch, then you have no business packing heat in public. I'm sure I'm going to get some pushback from the 'constitutional carry' folks, but I believe there should be significantly more training required to obtain a concealed carry permit.

That's going too far. Every sole that buys a first gun is not irresponsible.

I am certainly a huge proponent for carriers seeking training. That said, governments stipulating and regulating training is never a good thing.

I never said everyone buying a first gun is irresponsible. Pls don't misquote me.

It wasn't a quote, it was what I read in that huge gob of words you posted. Maybe you should read it again yourself?

 

[JettaKnight]

That's going too far. Every sole that buys a first gun is not irresponsible.

I am certainly a huge proponent for carriers seeking training. That said, governments stipulating and regulating training is never a good thing.

Given that they have no place to put a holster, I think every sole is an irresponsible gun owner.

 

[eldirector]

Lots of perfectly acceptable holsters for your soles:

 

[Delta Elite]

That is the question how do you teach someone who knows everything what they don't know...

 

[Coach]

That is the question how do you teach someone who knows everything what they don't know...

Get them on the range. A little demonstration goes a long way.

 

[churchmouse]

Get them on the range. A little demonstration goes a long way.

^This^^^^^^^^^^

 

[dudley0]

Get them on the range. A little demonstration goes a long way.

Been a shooter all my life. Thought I was adequate. Went from a home range where we just set stuff up to shoot, to an actual target that allows you to see what you hit.

Dot torture sure made me see the light. I am still not good at it, and I don't practice as much as I should, but I have tightened up my groups.

This also led to more active shooting. Scenarios where I might get caught in a shooting situation.

 

[craigkim]

More people would take firearms safety classes if instructors could design a way to make them more attractive. It's true, I feel like mostly men who own a firearm think they know everything about it and are proficient, when mostly they are not. I see them frequently at the range posting their target at 10 yards and then shooting a 14" group and really taking some pride in their accomplishments, because their buddy can't even hit the target every time. I also feel like women seem to want to be more responsible and actually pursue the appropriate training after or even before they choose a firearm.

 

[actaeon277]

More people would take firearms safety classes if instructors could design a way to make them more attractive. It's true, I feel like mostly men who own a firearm think they know everything about it and are proficient, when mostly they are not. I see them frequently at the range posting their target at 10 yards and then shooting a 14" group and really taking some pride in their accomplishments, because their buddy can't even hit the target every time. I also feel like women seem to want to be more responsible and actually pursue the appropriate training after or even before they choose a firearm.

Yup.

 

[Thor]

More people would take firearms safety classes if instructors could design a way to make them more attractive.

Host them by Hooter's or the Tilted Kilt?

Of course that might not have the desired effect for knowledge retention...or maybe they just wouldn't be learning the right things...

 

[craigkim]

Host them by Hooter's or the Tilted Kilt?

Of course that might not have the desired effect for knowledge retention...or maybe they just wouldn't be learning the right things...

Honestly, I am not a firearms instructor, nor will I ever be, but in the "beginner" level classes I took NONE of them taught me to be a better shooter nor did they really promise to. They all pretty much covered safety and that was it. That isn't going to attract someone who knows it all already (thinks they do I mean). I think one angle is a class like "introduction to competition shooting" or the like. A lot of it is safety, but it is more likely to entice the gun owner with the hook that he is going to learn to compete. What gun owner who can shoot a 14" group at 10 yards isn't ready for competition!?! lol

I think there has to be a way to bring in firearm owners with a promise of more than "How to not shoot yourself or someone else accidentally". Maybe a hook could be used like, "Fundamentals of firearms safety and improving marksmanship". I am still surprised by this, but I have taken quite a few handgun classes for beginner to intermediate shooters and they never covered proper trigger control and working the reset OR proper focus on the front sight. I had to read a book to get a decent understanding of those two aspects, which improved my shooting more than any class I took. Almost all the classes covered grip, but I can still remember the day I FINALLY understood front sight focus and what it means. My groups instantly started to shrink.

 

[craigkim]

Host them by Hooter's or the Tilted Kilt?

Of course that might not have the desired effect for knowledge retention...or maybe they just wouldn't be learning the right things...

Honestly, I am not a firearms instructor, nor will I ever be, but in the "beginner" level classes I took NONE of them taught me to be a better shooter nor did they really promise to. They all pretty much covered safety and that was it. That isn't going to attract someone who knows it all already (thinks they do I mean). I think one angle is a class like "introduction to competition shooting" or the like. A lot of it is safety, but it is more likely to entice the gun owner with the hook that he is going to learn to compete. What gun owner who can shoot a 14" group at 10 yards isn't ready for competition!?! lol

I think there has to be a way to bring in firearm owners with a promise of more than "How to not shoot yourself or someone else accidentally". Maybe a hook could be used like, "Fundamentals of firearms safety and improving marksmanship". I am still surprised by this, but I have taken quite a few handgun classes for beginner to intermediate shooters and they never covered proper trigger control and working the reset OR proper focus on the front sight. I had to read a book to get a decent understanding of those two aspects, which improved my shooting more than any class I took. Almost all the classes covered grip, but I can still remember the day I FINALLY understood front sight focus and what it means. My groups instantly started to shrink.

 

[WanderingSol07]

I'm always looking for training opportunities, but not everyone wants training for carrying a 9mm or larger. I see training courses offered in Indiana that only accept people with 9mm or larger handgun and a holster. I cannot carry to, at, or from work so my carry opportunities are limited and outside of work my time is mostly at home. I would like to see courses that accept the use of a .380 or .22lr handgun, rifle, or shotgun for a home defense situation.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

The first handgun class I took was a half day handgun101 type class by coach. It was a live range class and covered handgun marksmanship fundamentals. He covered grip, reset, breaking the shot, etc. I thought it was a wonderful class and it really changed the way I thought about handguns, let alone the way I shot them.

Since then, I have taken some more classes and I really do want good people to be armed and capable. I encourage training.

That said, I am passionately against requiring training to carry a firearm in public. We cannot use government force to make people do all the things we think they should do.

 

[deucide]

I personally feel that since barring arms is a right, basic training should be a legal requirement ... Period. Make a safety and marksmanship class a required class to graduate high school. If you "don't believe in guns" tough poo-poo. Take the damn course then never buy one. At least those people will be trained In the truth .

 

[eldirector]

I've seen a few folks advocating public school teaching firearms courses. Do we really want Common Core gun classes? REALLY?

It saddens me that we are so willing to abdicate our responsibilities to the Government and Public Schools. The curriculum has already moved from the "Three R's" to teaching basic life skills. I've even seen a push lately to have schools take of "character building", because parents and families are no longer even trying.

There is no immediate fix for this. New laws and more government oversight will make it worse, not better. It has taken a generation or two to screw up, it will take that long to correct.

Now, will there every be a time when ever single person is 100% proficient in firearms? No, of course not. But I would rather have dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery (that's a Jefferson quote) any day.

 

[churchmouse]

I do not want the Gov. any deeper in any of this at any level. They have proven that nothing they do is done correctly. Nothing.

 

[2A_Tom]

I personally feel that since barring arms is a right, basic training should be a legal requirement ... Period. Make a safety and marksmanship class a required class to graduate high school. If you "don't believe in guns" tough poo-poo. Take the damn course then never buy one. At least those people will be trained In the truth .

Barring arms is what the antis want to do. In effect that is what mandatory training is for. In places like DC and Ilinois they have set up strict mandatory training requirements which are very costly. These requirements are a high hurdle for some who have a serious need for self protection.

Self defense is an unalienable right and in the age of gun powder, bearing firearms is the most effective deterrant to serious battery and possible murder.