UNONS RIGHT TO WORK AND OTHER RAMBLINGS

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  • cbseniour

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    This is my latest rant to the Indy Star
    If you read it let me know what you think.

    Unions, PC and the economy

    I was born the 40’s Dad said I was the first of the baby boomer generation and I am not politically correct so this will probably offend some. If so then enjoy your outrage.

    Back in the fifties when I was a child I often heard a standard old joke. Why do we have so many hillbillies or N_ _ _ _ _ in Indianapolis? Answer: their car broke down before they reached Detroit. True but crass.

    There was without dispute a migration of willing workers from the south to Detroit, to what we call today the Rust Belt. For the most part they got jobs in Auto Factories and Steel Mills and contributed to the greatest boom in US History.

    They joined unions and enjoyed a good standard of living, health insurance and vacations bought good homes and cars, boats and campers all was good.

    The Unions they joined pressed companies for more and more benefits and higher and higher wages. A union tradesman in the 2000’s could earn over $100,000 per year with benefits.

    The agreements between the unions and the manufacturers depended upon future revenues to fund health care benefits just as the government did with social security.
    Union workers became lazy and complacent. After all they couldn’t be fired. We have all heard Uncle Ted tell stories of how little work he actually did, how he slept in a hidden corner or how after he reached his daily production quota at 10 AM he was on break until he got of a 3PM.

    All of this plus an extremely arrogant attitude taken by manufacturers led to the downfall of the Rust Belt manufacturing juggernaut.

    The few manufacturers left in the northern section of the US owe more to Union mandated health and retirement contracts than any other debt source.

    So now we have manufacturers moving operations and opening new factories in the south or overseas where unions are not powerful or well respected even by the workers. Will the workers from Detroit and Ann Arbor and Pontiac go south to the jobs? Back where their families came from originally. I doubt it because they might get a job but it would only pay a living wage not $25 or $35 per hour for unskilled labor.

    The pendulum has swung full cycle Unions are loosing strength, manufactures are moving south, and Right to Work laws are being passed.

    Yes this will result in lower wages for the working class but it is our own fault. We got greedy and lazy. We forgot that we need for the employer to make a profit in order for us to have a job at all.
     

    J_Wales

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    If the unions add value, then they should have no problem attracting folks that want to pay dues.

    That they fear loosing the ability to use force to collect dues from those that are not members indicates they do not add value.
     

    TRS

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    CB, I'd appreciate some links and data to support your claim about union members who make $100k. I work with lots of union guys. Most make $40-55 if they can find work all year. Not saying you're wrong, but I can't think of any in Indiana unless they work a ton of overtime.
     

    jeremy

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    CB, I'd appreciate some links and data to support your claim about union members who make $100k. I work with lots of union guys. Most make $40-55 if they can find work all year. Not saying you're wrong, but I can't think of any in Indiana unless they work a ton of overtime.
    I have an Uncle that was a UAW Member in Kokomo that pulled down $100K or more a year when he retired in the '90's...
    Not bad for an unskilled line worker...
     

    Bill B

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    Remember, the building trades unions are vastly different from the manufacturing type unions.
    I hired on the RR in 1994 and there was an engineer who ran "the A-train" every day six days a week. His take-home was over $100k.
    I, being in the mechanical dept, have occasionally made close to $80k gross, but it was difficult to do.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    Mitchell
    CB, I'd appreciate some links and data to support your claim about union members who make $100k. I work with lots of union guys. Most make $40-55 if they can find work all year. Not saying you're wrong, but I can't think of any in Indiana unless they work a ton of overtime.

    It is not unheard of for skilled trades to exceed $100k/year in wages, alone. There are those that work every weekend, holiday, etc. they can. When you get paid 1 1/2x for Saturdays and 2x for Sundays/holidays..
     

    xring62

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    Unions bite. UAW is half or more the blame there is no Delco in Anderson. I remember as a kid adults talking of strikes to get higher wages it was the 70's, they wanted like 15 an hour,at the time my dad made 5.60 as a foreman and he had a house and new car, I thought WOW sensing something wrong as a kid,talk too of GM could not fire anyone for anything ,the union got them back on,chairs next to workers line to relax in after they ran the quota in an hour or 2,guys being home while clocked in ,on and on like the system was being raped...letssee ,the Jap plants never was ran like that. They are still here and factories ,many of them ,had to run from the unions. Fact not fiction. The unions WAS about safety in the workplace ,then overstepped in a large way
     

    MrYesterday

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    I must be in a different union than most people are use to. I work 60-100 hours a week and barely make $60k a year, can most definitely get fired (have seen several people do so) for whatever reason the company decides to write on my pink slip, have yet to hear about any member of my union in a violent protest/extortion plot/or use threat tactics, and if you're let go from a couple employers for drugs/being late/violence in the workplace/slacking off you can be required to retrain, or lose your book if it is serious or happens too many times.

    I can understand why people would have a bad opinion of unions if that is what people believe the norm to be.
     

    jeremy

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    I must be in a different union than most people are use to. I work 60-100 hours a week and barely make $60k a year, can most definitely get fired (have seen several people do so) for whatever reason the company decides to write on my pink slip, have yet to hear about any member of my union in a violent protest/extortion plot/or use threat tactics, and if you're let go from a couple employers for drugs/being late/violence in the workplace/slacking off you can be required to retrain, or lose your book if it is serious or happens too many times.

    I can understand why people would have a bad opinion of unions if that is what people believe the norm to be.
    From our talks I am guessing you are in a Trades Hall...

    Most of the People who are fed up with Unions have experiences dealing mostly with the UAW or other Production Unions. Come to a UAW community and listen to the guys talk about what they really done to earn their checks. Makes you kinda nauseous...
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    Mitchell
    I must be in a different union than most people are use to. I work 60-100 hours a week and barely make $60k a year, can most definitely get fired (have seen several people do so) for whatever reason the company decides to write on my pink slip, have yet to hear about any member of my union in a violent protest/extortion plot/or use threat tactics, and if you're let go from a couple employers for drugs/being late/violence in the workplace/slacking off you can be required to retrain, or lose your book if it is serious or happens too many times.

    I can understand why people would have a bad opinion of unions if that is what people believe the norm to be.

    Not to drag you into another internet forum fight about unions...but I have dealt with both types of unions. What you say, I have found to be generally true about the trades guys like the IBEW. I have personally witnessed many of the horror stories mentioned above concerning UAW workers. In our plant, much of that crap has largely been corrected, but the old ways die hard.
     

    eatsnopaste

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    I work in a non-union shop. The highest paid houly workers are the maintenance electricians who get their pay rate because they got their training from the union. Most still keep their dues paid up just in case..oh yeah, they are the most anti union people we have! It's ok for them but....so go ahead and receive your insurance, your 40 hour work week, the safety programs, overtime...of course without unions these would have come about anyway...right? uh huh.
     

    MrYesterday

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    Like I said. I can understand the irritation associated with a union that was run like you are talking about. Although not ALL unions are that way. Some of us really are just working men, trying not to get screwed. That's the reason that I get so irritated when people put us all down. I've never been to a picket line, protest, or union meeting for that matter. I just pay my $27 a month, and do my damn job. I'm not associated with the mafia, don't intimidate people that speak out against unions (merely try to make them see what I'm trying to explain here), and I definitely don't vote for my leadership based on how good I think they will be at bribing government officials to look on us favorably. People that think we're ALL condoning violence, pro-corruption, and believe we deserve to skate by on the bare minimum are full of s&!t. I've personally ran off a few new union members that tried to take a cigarette break every 30 minutes, and thought union membership gave them immunity from a good work ethic.

    I'm just tired of being lumped together.
     

    cbseniour

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    CB, I'd appreciate some links and data to support your claim about union members who make $100k. I work with lots of union guys. Most make $40-55 if they can find work all year. Not saying you're wrong, but I can't think of any in Indiana unless they work a ton of overtime.

    My limited knowledge of union wage comes from people I know and talk to who work or worked an the Ford Steering gear plant and the GM stamping plant in town.
    I don't claim that all union workers are that well compensated just pointing out an example.
    By the way my son is a union electricial in PA and his son is making more as a welded that Eric does as a commercial electrician. Nothing is fair or equal
     

    atvdave

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    I have an Uncle that was a UAW Member in Kokomo that pulled down $100K or more a year when he retired in the '90's...
    Not bad for an unskilled line worker...

    He would have to be payed at least $48.07 per hour to make 100K per year. I think there was a lot of overtime involved, but I'm Happy he could make a good living, and provide for his family.

    Heck, I make around $90K a year in a non-union job, but with a lot of overtime. I know people who make a lot more but live on the road, working 7 days a week.

    :yesway:
     

    jeremy

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    Like I said. I can understand the irritation associated with a union that was run like you are talking about. Although not ALL unions are that way. Some of us really are just working men, trying not to get screwed. That's the reason that I get so irritated when people put us all down. I've never been to a picket line, protest, or union meeting for that matter. I just pay my $27 a month, and do my damn job. I'm not associated with the mafia, don't intimidate people that speak out against unions (merely try to make them see what I'm trying to explain here), and I definitely don't vote for my leadership based on how good I think they will be at bribing government officials to look on us favorably. People that think we're ALL condoning violence, pro-corruption, and believe we deserve to skate by on the bare minimum are full of s&!t. I've personally ran off a few new union members that tried to take a cigarette break every 30 minutes, and thought union membership gave them immunity from a good work ethic.

    I'm just tired of being lumped together.
    Good for you and your Hall.

    Unfortunately, that is not the norm. Should be but it is not.

    I have a Neighbor that Clocked 130 Hour work weeks for almost 3 years. Making a Base of $25 an Hour, 1 1/2 times for overtime, double pay for Holidays and weekends, and every 7 day of straight work was triple time. When the Company caught him and his 6 friends running the Clock Scam they were promptly fired. The Union had them back on the job before a week was out....
     

    cbseniour

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    It seems that when I post something like this everyone jumps on one sentence to discuss.
    I fully realize the contribution of unions and union labor to our economy and our society. however, I feel that in many cases they have outgrown their usefullness and completely lost track of their intended purpose.
    My biggest concern is how union benefits and retirement are funded and managed. With many current contracts these are funded with future earnings. Like borrowing money for your retirement.
     
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