United Air forcibly removes passenger on overbooked flight

[jamil]

To me, airline employees, security and passenger made some rash and unwise decisions. I see no broader significance beyond the parties actually involved.

United said that no policies were violated. The problem was that 4 employees needed to get to Da'ville. The solution ended up being to forcibly remove a seated passenger. Surely a better policy would have helped resolve the problem with a better solution than that. Policies are designed to help account for human failings like making rash and unwise decisions as much as possible. I'll bet United and other airlines will likely think this through and decide how these kinds of things should be handled in the future.

 

[Cameramonkey]

My concern is that by airlines regularly overbooking they are in fact knowingly offering a service to some people that they will NOT be able to provide, then causing potentially great harm to the person denied service. <SNIP>

Doug

Great minds think alike.

They typically already have no-show/no-refunds to the best of my knowledge. Except maybe special tix for frequent fliers.

Here is how I view it. They started with the overbooking to fill seats. Now they got greedy and said "So the plane flies with 70 paid tix, whether there are 70 bodies on board or not due to no shows. What if we made it so we could actually fly the plane with all 70 seats full AND keep the money from the no shows too? a flight of 70 for the revenue of a 75-80- seat plane? Hot damn! Lets do it!"


But it REALLY sucks when EVERYBODY shows up anyway.

 

[HoughMade]

United said that no policies were violated. The problem was that 4 employees needed to get to Da'ville. The solution ended up being to forcibly remove a seated passenger. Surely a better policy would have helped resolve the problem with a better solution than that. Policies are designed to help account for human failings like making rash and unwise decisions as much as possible. I'll bet United and other airlines will likely think this through and decide how these kinds of things should be handled in the future.

I'd be happy if passengers thought this through and didn't go nuts. I don't know what policy would prevent the need for a passenger to EVER be asked to leave the plane. I was on a flight 3 months ago that was over weight. 2 people had to get off and 2 people volunteered. What if they hadn't? What should the policy be?

 

[Fargo]

I'd be happy if passengers thought this through and didn't go nuts. I don't know what policy would prevent the need for a passenger to EVER be asked to leave the plane. I was on a flight 3 months ago that was over weight. 2 people had to get off and 2 people volunteered. What if they hadn't? What should the policy be?

The odds of such troubles would be almost nonexistent if the airlines didn't have a policy of selling 2 people the same seat...

 

[HoughMade]

The odds of such troubles would be almost nonexistent if the airlines didn't have a policy of selling 2 people the same seat...

See my example above. No oversold. Over weight.

 

[Tanfodude]

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

 

[KMaC]

I'd be happy if passengers thought this through and didn't go nuts. I don't know what policy would prevent the need for a passenger to EVER be asked to leave the plane. I was on a flight 3 months ago that was over weight. 2 people had to get off and 2 people volunteered. What if they hadn't? What should the policy be?

Whatever policy airlines develop it will be news worthy in the next implementation because if we learned nothing else from this incident it is always best to refuse to cooperate, scream, wrap your arms around a fixed object and claim they are picking on you because your're ____________ (fill in whatever fits you best). Society seems to love a victim no matter how much of a jerk.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I'd be happy if passengers thought this through and didn't go nuts. I don't know what policy would prevent the need for a passenger to EVER be asked to leave the plane. I was on a flight 3 months ago that was over weight. 2 people had to get off and 2 people volunteered. What if they hadn't? What should the policy be?

This just sparked a memory for me... on the way back from our honeymoon one of the planes had mechanical problems and another was substituted (same model). Unfortunately the replacement had too much fuel and right at the tail end of boarding they were asking volunteers to get bumped. We were already in our seats and it was already the return-trip from heck (every leg had overbooking/overweight/delays). We weren't volunteering. After about 15 minutes the flight attendant said they no longer needed volunteers to get bumped, everybody would be able to make the flight. YAY!!!!

Get to our destination to pickup bags and there are about 20 people standing in lines filing claims on missing baggage (including my wife). I knew instantly that they decided to bump baggage instead of passengers. They knew that bumping baggage would be so much easier than bumping pax, but if the issue is seat related and not weight related they don't have that option.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

United CEO apologizes again after it turns out the controversial flight wasn't even overbooked


(warning: auto-play video)

 

[Big Dave]

I wish that would of been me....I'd love to retire with all my cash they'll throw at him for that little stunt!

 

[Fargo]

See my example above. No oversold. Over weight.

According to the airlines, if they don't oversell there will normally be a couple vacant seats even though all are paid for...

 

[T.Lex]

So, bringing fair market principles to bear, t'would be better for the airlines to increase ticket costs to cover the empty seats and Wall Street expectations?

I'm not saying that'd be a bad thing, but it would be a different thing.

Oh, and can we drop the notion that this was an overbooking situation? I mean, yeah, the flight probably probably should've been overbooked, but that's not why they needed the seats. They needed the seats to comply with .gov regulations (which they probably lobbied for (this nested paren is looking at you, Fargo)).

And while we're dropping early-reported-misreports, it sounds like the guy had actually been taken off the flight, then ran back to his seat. That's different IMHO to just being picked out from his seat. People running onto planes seems like a bad thing.

 

[avboiler11]

More seats needed than seats available, by definition, is overbooked. Doesn't matter if the passengers are revenue, or non-revenue positive space must ride (which deadheading employees are).

 

[T.Lex]

More seats needed than seats available, by definition, is overbooked.

Freeman's Law of INGO Faculty Lounge Devolution. (FLIFLD)

To me "overbooked" means more reservations than seats. It does not include necessity-based needs for seats, such as overweight or emergency carriage of a crew. The former is corporate greed (not necessarily a bad thing). The latter is beyond their control (lobbying notwithstanding).

 

[Bapak2ja]

Anyone interested in reading "the rest of the story" from the other side of the incident? According to this, United was constrained by federal law to remove a passenger, the passenger was chosen at random, other passengers disembarked without causing a disturbance, but this man felt he was special and that the law did not apply to him so h ran back on to the plane after he was escorted already escorted off. It suggests we consider what would happen if anyone else ran through security because we did not want to obey legal TSA/federal orders. It is worth reading.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

Seems to me this was just another case of a man thinking the law did not apply to him and snowflake got warmed up.

 

[ghitch75]

Anyone interested in reading "the rest of the story" from the other side of the incident? According to this, United was constrained by federal law to remove a passenger, the passenger was chosen at random, other passengers disembarked without causing a disturbance, but this man felt he was special and that the law did not apply to him so h ran back on to the plane after he was escorted already escorted off. It suggests we consider what would happen if anyone else ran through security because we did not want to obey legal TSA/federal orders. It is worth reading.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

Seems to me this was just another case of a man thinking the law did not apply to him and snowflake got warmed up.

then he got what he deserved....

 

[halfmileharry]

I'd be happy if passengers thought this through and didn't go nuts. I don't know what policy would prevent the need for a passenger to EVER be asked to leave the plane. I was on a flight 3 months ago that was over weight. 2 people had to get off and 2 people volunteered. What if they hadn't? What should the policy be?

My flight? Throw off a couple of fat people and put on more fuel.
I don't run out of gas on the old Buick so my flight better run a full tank as well.

 

[Fargo]

Anyone interested in reading "the rest of the story" from the other side of the incident? According to this, United was constrained by federal law to remove a passenger, the passenger was chosen at random, other passengers disembarked without causing a disturbance, but this man felt he was special and that the law did not apply to him so h ran back on to the plane after he was escorted already escorted off. It suggests we consider what would happen if anyone else ran through security because we did not want to obey legal TSA/federal orders. It is worth reading.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

Seems to me this was just another case of a man thinking the law did not apply to him and snowflake got warmed up.

People who want to base their arguments on federal law mandates should probably quote it or at least give a cite to what they're talking about. Otherwise, I really couldn't care less about what someone's wife claims it says.

That piece has enough clear factual errors in it that I'm really a little skeptical about the legal claims. Since when are the unarmed municipal security cops who work for the O'Hare airport federal agents?

 

[BugI02]

According to the airlines, if they don't oversell there will normally be a couple vacant seats even though all are paid for...

Full fare coach, bidness class and first class all fully refundable without restriction. They may believe they sold me a seat but if I miss the flight I just get my money back. Net result, a/c leaves with seats unpaid for if they don't have a 'pad'

 

[BugI02]

United said that no policies were violated. The problem was that 4 employees needed to get to Da'ville. The solution ended up being to forcibly remove a seated passenger. Surely a better policy would have helped resolve the problem with a better solution than that. Policies are designed to help account for human failings like making rash and unwise decisions as much as possible. I'll bet United and other airlines will likely think this through and decide how these kinds of things should be handled in the future.

No worries! Your favorite fat puss bag is ON it!

Chris Christie ask Trump to suspend airline overbooking regulations - Washington Times