trump

[JNG]

Except here my choices are chicken s**t or bull s**t. I guess I'll just have to snack on peanuts and raise cain with the idiots who decided that those should be the items on the menu.

 

[JNG]

Here's a Fourth of July sentiment I think we can all agree with, no matter where we fall on the question of the Cheetoh Messiah:

This Dangerous Year, These Dangerous Days: July 4, 1776 - July 4, 2016 | RedState

 

[bwframe]

The choice here simply boils down to whether you vote against gun control or whether allow it to happen but voting any other way.

 

[Route 45]

Except here my choices are chicken s**t or bull s**t. I guess I'll just have to snack on peanuts and raise cain with the idiots who decided that those should be the items on the menu.

I'm not sure which one is chicken and which one is beef, but I suppose we can throw Johnson in there as peanuts.

 

[JNG]

I'm not sure which one is chicken and which one is beef, but I suppose we can throw Johnson in there as peanuts.

True enough. But when peanuts are the only edible option . . .

 

[BugI02]

Do they come in a seperate bag or does he have to pick them out of the ... entree

 

[JNG]

Deleted--duplicate post

 

[JNG]

The choice here simply boils down to whether you vote against gun control or whether allow it to happen but voting any other way.

So you're a Gary Johnson supporter now? Because based on their responses to Orlando, I'm pretty sure a vote for Trump or for Hillary is a vote for gun control.

 

[Route 45]

True enough. But when peanuts are the only edible option . . .

All of the options are edible. They just taste different to some people. I'm gonna go ahead and have dinner. I'll need the energy if I land in a country where the courts say that I have no right to own a firearm.

If I eat the peanuts, I might not even land in a country. Open borders and all that.....

 

[bwframe]

Johnson can't win, a vote for him is the same result as not voting. A Hillary gun control victory.

 

[BugI02]

Gentlemen, time to start prepping for the cookout

I would like to close by stating my belief that all my friends and acquaintances on INGO have America's best interests at heart. They merely see different paths and strategies to reach that goal

Wishing the best of Independence Days to all

 

[JNG]

Gentlemen, time to start prepping for the cookout

I would like to close by stating my belief that all my friends and acquaintances on INGO have America's best interests at heart. They merely see different paths and strategies to reach that goal

Wishing the best of Independence Days to all

Same to you, Bug. Well put.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The enthusiastic Trump supporters (I exempt the reluctant, pick-your-poison supporters, although I still respectfully disagree with them) are living proof of what the old proverb says: There are none so blind as those who will not see.

As scary as it's been to watch the pendulum swing towards thought police and political correctness, I'm just as frightened at the overcorrecting counterwswing in the direction of flagrant bigotry that some of the Branch Trumpidians seem bent on.

I just deleted my original response given its probability of getting me banned. I am a believer that all are created equal, but I am also a believer in the truth, and you have touched on a subject where there are two entirely different sets of accepted standards.

 

[JNG]

I just deleted my original response given its probability of getting me banned. I am a believer that all are created equal, but I am also a believer in the truth, and you have touched on a subject where there are two entirely different sets of accepted standards.

The existence of truth, and the fact that we're all deeply flawed individuals who make different, and probably at least partially flawed, claims to truth, is a big part of what makes freedom of speech so important and political correctness so destructive. I completely support the right of anyone to to support Trump, and, even to have a racial component to that support if they believe that to be right. But I also reserve the right to conclude that their belief and their expression of it are abhorrent, and to say so. Freedom of speech is always better than PC censoring, but it doesn't minimize the fact that what some people believe to be true is wrong and immoral. I'd rather have everyone free to say what they believe, no matter how awful--and then have the freedom to explain why I think it's awful.

That's part of what I find frightening about some of the Trump supporters. They appear to want to destroy liberal PC standards (good), but then replace those standards with their own orthodoxy where no one is allowed to disagree with them without being painted as an America-hating Hillary supporter.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The existence of truth, and the fact that we're all deeply flawed individuals who make different, and probably at least partially flawed, claims to truth, is a big part of what makes freedom of speech so important and political correctness so destructive. I completely support the right of anyone to to support Trump, and, even to have a racial component to that support if they believe that to be right. But I also reserve the right to conclude that their belief and their expression of it are abhorrent, and to say so. Freedom of speech is always better than PC censoring, but it doesn't minimize the fact that what some people believe to be true is wrong and immoral. I'd rather have everyone free to say what they believe, no matter how awful--and then have the freedom to explain why I think it's awful.

We are in agreement on the matter of principle. The point that irritates me is that Trump gets called out for racism as I consider the outcry that would happen if Klansmen showed up at a poll with baseball bats, but it's OK for the NBPP to do it. If I criticize Obama, or worse yet call him "The Kenyan" which I am in the habit of doing since I am absolutely not convinced that he is a natural born citizen, further encouraged by his efforts to hide the evidence, somehow that makes me a racist. That doesn't fly--had his roots been in Sweden, I would be calling him the Swede with just as much of a problem with it. Similarly, my criticisms stem from malfeasance, not lineage, yet somehow criticism, no matter what the reason, magically makes me a racist. If claims are made of law improperly applied by white police and officers of the court because of race, it is an issue and a scandal that those complaining are being victimized. If Trump has an issue with facing action in court presided over by a judge who almost certainly has a problem with Trump for reasons unconnected with the case, Trump is a racist. Trump wants to fix the porous border--that makes him a racist. I make mention of the fact that more Americans are killed annually in the United States by illegal aliens than have been killed sum total in the Iraq/Afghanistan war effort, that makes me a racist, even though the accusation doesn't make the body count go away, and somehow it is considered irrelevant that I am against illegal immigration regardless of whether the violators are Mexicans or Britons.

I am sick and tired of it. We are either equal or we're not. I would prefer equal, but I am not willing to sit down through a partisan fight where only one side is fighting. Maybe Trump will succeed at opening the can of worms of truth, it will be acknowledged that we have a situation of denial rather than a problem having been solved, and we will be forced to acknowledge the problem and actually solve it.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Johnson can't win, a vote for him is the same result as not voting. A Hillary gun control victory.

A vote for Johnson is just that, a vote for Johnson.

No matter how many times we all go through this illogical nonsense, it still seems to be the go-to line to disparage other people's votes.

 

[JNG]

We are in agreement on the matter of principle. The point that irritates me is that Trump gets called out for racism as I consider the outcry that would happen if Klansmen showed up at a poll with baseball bats, but it's OK for the NBPP to do it. If I criticize Obama, or worse yet call him "The Kenyan" which I am in the habit of doing since I am absolutely not convinced that he is a natural born citizen, further encouraged by his efforts to hide the evidence, somehow that makes me a racist. That doesn't fly--had his roots been in Sweden, I would be calling him the Swede with just as much of a problem with it. Similarly, my criticisms stem from malfeasance, not lineage, yet somehow criticism, no matter what the reason, magically makes me a racist. If claims are made of law improperly applied by white police and officers of the court because of race, it is an issue and a scandal that those complaining are being victimized. If Trump has an issue with facing action in court presided over by a judge who almost certainly has a problem with Trump for reasons unconnected with the case, Trump is a racist. Trump wants to fix the porous border--that makes him a racist. I make mention of the fact that more Americans are killed annually in the United States by illegal aliens than have been killed sum total in the Iraq/Afghanistan war effort, that makes me a racist, even though the accusation doesn't make the body count go away, and somehow it is considered irrelevant that I am against illegal immigration regardless of whether the violators are Mexicans or Britons.

I am sick and tired of it. We are either equal or we're not. I would prefer equal, but I am not willing to sit down through a partisan fight where only one side is fighting. Maybe Trump will succeed at opening the can of worms of truth, it will be acknowledged that we have a situation of denial rather than a problem having been solved, and we will be forced to acknowledge the problem and actually solve it.

I agree with you completely about the problem. Just not about Trump being a good solution. Happy Independence Day, Indy.

 

[IndyDave1776]

A vote for Johnson is just that, a vote for Johnson.

No matter how many times we all go through this illogical nonsense, it still seems to be the go-to line to disparage other people's votes.

I see it as an expression of statistical reality. In a two-way race in which you are definitely going to vote, your vote is worth two points so far as it changes the balance by 2 votes when applied. If there are 20 votes total, and a tie vote and I switch my vote from one to the other, that yields a vote of 11 to 9, +1 to one candidate and -1 to the other for a net change of 2 in the point spread. If I vote for a third party not considered or stay home, that deducts one vote from the candidate from whom I am presumed to have voted for otherwise.

If you accept the premise that either Trump or Hillary will win (i.e., Johnson not having a chance to win) and that no one here would vote for Hillary, it is statistically correct that by either staying home or voting Johnson, you have improved Hillary's score by one point (i.e., half the value of your vote had it been cast for either Trump or Hillary).

On the other hand, a vote for Johnson is philosophically a vote for the candidate you prefer, even if statistically you are likely assisting the candidate you prefer least.

Similarly, in the age of sail before the advent of the mechanical specialization and necessity for parts compatibility we now have, it was common for navies to put captured enemy ships in service in their own navies. The bottom line is that if you sink an enemy ship, you have improved the balance of power by one ship as the enemy now has one ship fewer. If you capture and place in your own service an enemy ship, you have improved the balance of power by 2 ships since the enemy has one ship fewer and you have one ship more. The same applies here. If it is a sure thing that you are not voting for Hillary and that Trump, Johnson, or staying home are the only options, and you choose Johnson or staying home, then Trump has a net loss of 1 rather than the net loss of 2 that would occur if you voted for Hillary.

My position on the matter is that I am not going to disparage anyone for their decisions here, but do expect them to honestly accept the statistical truth of how the numbers work.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I agree with you completely about the problem. Just not about Trump being a good solution. Happy Independence Day, Indy.

You have a happy independence day as well!

 

[bwframe]

Johnson can't win, a vote for him is the same result as not voting. A Hillary gun control victory.

A vote for Johnson is just that, a vote for Johnson.

No matter how many times we all go through this...
...it still seems to be the go-to line to disparage other people's votes.

You are voting against gun control or you are voting for it. With us or against us, have it your way.