Trump 2024 ???

[Ingomike]

I'm at a loss to see how two sets of electors could both be certified by the legislature of a state. I know there were instances where a second set was chosen awaiting the outcome of a court case, but not where the legislature had two different sets approved.

I do not think any electors are certified directly by the legislature. They are certified by the SOS who is supposed to follow the legislatures laws as for how to conduct an election and certify that it was.

That is the crux of the unconstitutional electors argument, the election was conducted beyond the laws of the legislature as the constitution prescribes but then was certified, by the SOS’s, as if it was.

Those electors are no more constitutional than any other slate of electors.

I wish some here were as concerned about the outright violations of the explicit words of the constitution as they are the unclear nature of what a VP can do when presented with unconstitutional electors…

 

[BugI02]

Credibility matters.

Trump is a liar.

Didn't Biden just say he'd done more to reduce the deficit than any other president (it's forecast to be $1.9 trillion, and that has been revised upward twice already this fiscal year)?

Biden is a liar

Credibility matters? Fix your own house

 

[KG1]

Eastman knew that there were no valid "alternate" slates.

According to J6 testimony and documentation obtained by the J6 commission Eastman acknowledged on multiple occasions—both before and after January 6th—that these “dual slates” had no legal significance.

In an email sent on December 19, 2020, Eastman wrote that the seven Trump/Pence slates of electors “will be dead on arrival in Congress” “unless those electors get a certification from their State Legislators.” Of course, this certification never came and there was no basis for any action on the “dual slates.”

Eastman acknowledged in an email that the "alternate" electors’ documents were invalid and irrelevant “Alas,” he said, “They had no authority” because "no legislature certified them.” 

 

[BugI02]

That's how it's done in a, ummmm, what's the word I'm looking for? It seems to be escaping this conversation... oh yes, that's right a DEMOCRACY.

Good thing we live in a Constitutional Republic, then

 

[KG1]

It also appears that Eastman changed his evaluation of the 12th amendment and the role of the vice president after Trump lost the election.

Eastman’s theory, which was the foundation of President Trump’s January 6th plan, the Vice President of the United States is the “ultimate arbiter” and could unilaterally decide the victor of the 2020 Presidential election. However, just before the 2020 presidential election, Eastman had acknowledged in writing that the Vice President had no such expansive power.

In the course of a lengthy exchange of ideas and emails throughout the pre- and post-election period with an individual named Bruce Colbert, Eastman provided comments on a letter Colbert was drafting to President Trump.

The draft letter purported to provide recommendations of “crucial legal actions” for the Trump Campaign to take “to help secure your election victory as President of the United States.”  One of the draft letter’s recommendations was that “the President of the Senate decides authoritatively what ‘certificates’ from the states to ‘open.’”

In response, Eastman wrote on October 17, 2020, “I don’t agree with this” and continued, “[t]he 12th Amendment only says that the President of the Senate opens the ballots in the joint session and then, in the passive voice, that the votes shall then be counted. 3 USC § 12 says merely that he is the presiding officer, and then it spells out specific procedures, presumptions, and default rules for which slates will be counted. Nowhere does it suggest that the President of the Senate gets to make the determination on his own. § 15 doesn’t, either.” 

By the first week of December, Eastman’s correspondence with this same individual illustrates that he was open to advocating for the very point he had rejected before the election—that is, that “the 12th Amendment confers dispositive authority on the President of the Senate to decide which slate to count.”

 

[BugI02]

You guys keep acting as if I'm rooting for a guilty verdict before the trial. I'm hoping it's ********. But I'm not making any predictions about that.

No, we have heard so many people come forward claiming things Trump did or said that turn out to be untrue and the claimant has/had no special knowledge and it is all a ploy for money, fame or power or their next job in hostile media that we are jaded and suffering caring fatigue. We know that just about all of media are devoted to covering up some truths and fabricating many falsehoods

They can have our Trump votes when they pry them from our cold, dead hands

 

[BugI02]

No law or provision of the Constitution envisions anything like it. Simply put, he made it up.

Then you probably should read The Electoral Count Act of 1887. Fair warning, it's a tough slog, and I am using your looser definition that no law 'envisions anything like it', not that it deals with the current case specifically

As I have said before, though, the dispute has to arise within the state - disagreement between covid changes, unilaterally emplaced by the SoS, and the legislature would be more than enough, IMO. Just having someone create an alternative list of electors, without the imprimatur of the legislature, and then saying that provided the necessary dispute to trigger the act I don't think would fly but that would take a court ruling. At the time Trump and Pence were still POTUS and VPOTUS, not just ordinary people

https://govtrackus.s3.amazonaws.com/legislink/pdf/stat/24/STATUTE-24-Pg373.pdf

 

[KG1]

Just having someone create an alternative list of electors, without the imprimatur of the legislature, and then saying that provided the necessary dispute to trigger the act I don't think would fly

This gets to the crux of the validity of attempting to submit an "alternate" slate of electors to congress without the backing of the state legislatures. They are not valid without the imprimatur of the state legislature. Apparently, Eastman acknowledged that and that's why he tried so hard to get GOP led state legislatures to appoint "alternate" electors. He said they were DOA without that.

But it didn't end there. When no state legislatures agreed to appoint those alternate electors, they went ahead with plan B to bypass the state legislatures.

In five states, groups of pro-Trump activists signed false documents claiming to be legitimate presidential electors and those fraudulent documents were sent to congress without the backing of their state governments, which had certified the results in favor of Biden and that's what got them indicted as co-conspirators which then prompted them to claim they were duped into doing so under false pretenses.

Eastman would ultimately change tack and try to do exactly like you said that you didn't think would fly, arguing that the false electors presented enough of a controversy for Pence to decide which ones to count — or at the very least refuse to count Biden’s votes and call for a delay in finalizing the election to permit those GOP-run states to revisit the outcome.

 

[Route 45]

 

[KG1]

Be careful Huck or they might come after you for inciting an insurrection somehow.

Huckabee: 2024 will be last election ‘decided by ballots rather than bullets’ if Trump loses over legal cases

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (R) on Wednesday said 2024 will be the last election “decided by ballots rather than bullets” if former President Trump doesn’t win the presidential race be…

thehill.com

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (R) on Wednesday said 2024 will be the last election “decided by ballots rather than bullets” if former President Trump doesn’t win the presidential race because of his various legal battles.

“If these tactics end up working to keep Trump from winning or even running in 2024, it is going to be the last American election that will be decided by ballots rather than bullets,” Huckabee warned in his opening monologue.

 

[KG1]

Then you probably should read The Electoral Count Act of 1887. Fair warning, it's a tough slog, and I am using your looser definition that no law 'envisions anything like it', not that it deals with the current case specifically

I forgot to address this part. I did try to read as much as i could. You were right it is a tough slog but I gave it a go. From what I read of it though I didn't find anything that addressed my point that in reality there is no constitutional authority whatsoever to be found within for the vice president to unilaterally halt the joint session, send the certified votes back to the states, demand that state legislatures somehow act on his instructions, and set a later date for Congress to reconvene.

No law or provision of the Constitution envisions anything like it.

As a matter of fact, instead, according to the J6 record Pence chose to follow the proper guidelines of the ECA giving members of both houses in congress during the joint session the chance to object and briefly debate after the announcement of the certified slate for each state was made then take a vote and move on to the next one.

The only thing was that there was to be no consideration given to false elector documents that were submitted to congress if they were introduced because they were not certified which made them invalid. Even Eastman one of the architects of the false elector plan said they would be DOA when they reached congress because they weren't certified.

The ECA process that was under way was interrupted when the rioters breached the Capitol and resumed after the rioting was quelled and the Capitol was cleared.

 

[Magyars]

 

[Ingomike]

From what I read of it though I didn't find anything that addressed my point that in reality there is no constitutional authority whatsoever to be found within for the vice president to unilaterally halt the joint session, send the certified votes back to the states, demand that state legislatures somehow act on his instructions, and set a later date for Congress to reconvene.

No law or provision of the Constitution envisions anything like it.

How many things that as a country we have overcome that fit this description? This reads like if there is not clear text then we cannot do anything. I am over that BS. The same constitution that apparently says that growing wheat on your farm is engaging in interstate commerce says the VP has a constitutional duty to protect the constitution and if a VP believes EC votes were unconstitutional he would be within those duties to send them back for confirmation from the legislature, whom the constitution grants the sole duty of selecting.

I can make a better case for constitutional duty than the court did the wheat case…

 

[bwframe]

Is your 980 still available ? got a trade offer if your interested. I wasn’t able to comment on your thread or message you

PART 2: I'm new an your 50-post rule sucks! Please change it for my convenience.

I think Hyundai and Kia both are way underestimated. Right now I wouldn't want a kia, but give them another year to fix the "steal me and rob a gun shop" signs, and I believe they'll be back up to snuff. I love mine.

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[Cameramonkey]

Is your 980 still available ? got a trade offer if your interested. I wasn’t able to comment on your thread or message you

First, welcome to INGO. You cant do either because you do not have access to the classifieds yet. Please review the rules again. They are linked in my signature.

You need either 50 QUALITY posts or pay for site supporter status to buy/sell here.

 

[printcraft]

Is your 980 still available ? got a trade offer if your interested. I wasn’t able to comment on your thread or message you

 

[Ronnieb0122]

First, welcome to INGO. You cant do either because you do not have access to the classifieds yet. Please review the rules again. They are linked in my signature.

You need either 50 QUALITY posts or pay for site supporter status to buy/sell here.

I appreciate it, I’m sorry about that

 

[Cameramonkey]

I appreciate it, I’m sorry about that

No worries!

And thanks for not melting down. You'd be surprised how many children in adult sized meat suits we get around here that just cant be bothered with following the rules and melt down because we dared to expect them to follow them. LOL

 

[Ronnieb0122]

No worries!

And thanks for not melting down. You'd be surprised how many children in adult sized meat suits we get around here that just cant be bothered with following the rules and melt down because we dared to expect them to follow them. LOL

Meat suits . I knew I did something wrong lol, within 10 minutes 3 people all told me it was a no no. & you can’t really expect much more these days lol

 

[KG1]

Meat suits . I knew I did something wrong lol, within 10 minutes 3 people all told me it was a no no. & you can’t really expect much more these days lol

You seem like a good-natured fella. Might want to create a thread here and introduce yourself.

Introductions and Greetings

Welcome Hoosiers to your Indiana firearms community! Please take a minute to say hello!

www.indianagunowners.com