Trump 2024 ???

[SheepDog4Life]

And that is unconstitutional in the process of selecting EC voters. The equal protection and civil rights violations are a different animal.

Well, the PA SC at least had the fig-leaf that they were acting to "guarantee" legitimate votes being counted in extending when mail-in ballots could arrive and be counted... and pegged it to the state constitution, IIRC.

They had the back-drop of the USPS brou-haha so to the average non-partisan, this did not "appear" to be a massive power-grab.

We both know that is was primarily to add a "marginal" advantage to Dems, and that was the purpose. FWIW, nuking the Green party on a technicality was a far larger influence on the outcome and, IMO, a far more egregious sin.

I live in a constitutional representative republic and that constitution rules, and no it did not account for every dirty trick corrupt politicians can throw at it.

Yup, it does not... but I'd put the Eastman memo in the column of one of the more egregious dirty tricks.

The article I linked said if the dirty politicians wanted to the crap could have hit the fan in 9 of 34 elections.

“In each case, political actors playing constitutional hardball could execute the strategy while staying within the strict bounds of the law by abandoning informal constitutional norms.”

Yup, lots of dirty tricks available by saying "well the Constitution doesn't prevent me from..."

But that is just the point, it's not just a "norm", it is the form of the Constitution... see next.

That is what I believe you are saying, the the Eastman proposals would surpass, “informal constitutional norms”, but I do not believe they violate the constitution.

I disagree... the Constitution is restrictive... if the entity is not granted a power within the Constitution, that power does not exist.

Had the authors intended to grant the VP/President Pro Temp of the Senate the power to NOT COUNT certified electors, it would have said so. It didn't... to claim that power is to violate the Constitution, IMO.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

View attachment 297538

I'm sorry. Clownworld™ is trademarked to represent nutty left. You'll need to use a different word for nutty right.

Nutty left and nutty right look much the same to me... but I get it, so how about BozoWorld™? The same, but different.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

WE'RE NOT A DEMOCRACY! WE'RE A REPUBLIC!

Well, a Democratic Republic...

With respect to PA Supreme court justices, I could be wrong, but I believe that they are directly elected, and a partisan election at that, versus appointed.

 

[DragonGunner]

So seeing polls I have no faith in, but regardless, saying Trump wins primary but loses general election. 53% say they won’t vote for him of republicans and independents. But it’s all in the wording in most polls. Imho it seems to me there is a significant number that has decided not to vote for him. Then I remember that about 10% of Blacks voted for Trump last election which is huge for a Republican. Now that Trump is a thug and arrested his popularity and polls are going higher while others like 2nd place DeSantis numbers have been cut in half. YouTube I’m seeing more and more Blacks saying other blacks are beginning to like Trump. Be a real blow to the democrat slave plantation if a huge % of Blacks broke free and went with Trump….maybe not even stuffed ballot boxes would be enough. But as Tucker said, the next step seems to be assassination.

 

[jamil]

I have not seen any evidence of this plan. He was asked to send the electors back to their respective legislatures giving time to let them send the electors of their choosing and to throw it to the house and senate, both of which seem constitutional to me…

Well, that you haven't seen evidence might be that you're not looking in the right places for it.

---

At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

---

This is from Eastman's memo that you linked to earlier. Keep in mind, those electors are all fake. None of them were certified by the states. The idea for sending an alternate slate of electors started with an earlier memo. The idea there was to seek out a slate of electors in Wisconsin in case Trump prevails in court there, so that Wisconsin would be able to certify them if needed.

In that plan, none of the alternate electors would be used unless Trump won the court battles there. The indictment says that's fine, but alleges that this plan morphed into sending their votes to the President of the Senate as if certified. The Eastman memo does support some of the language in the indictment, mostly that part of Pence's role to gavel in Trump as winner amid the controversy.

It does not call them fake, which they are, which also means that the controversy is fake. Also, the Eastman memo linked does not have Pence choosing to count the fake electors' votes. It just has him claiming that there's a controversy because of multiple slates of electors in several states. Even though the controversy is planned and contrived.

The indictment alludes to a trail of memos, emails, and conversations between co-conspirators, and others, about what the plan actually was. So they're saying that it's more than what is outlined in Eastman's memo.

 

[jamil]

So seeing polls I have no faith in, but regardless, saying Trump wins primary but loses general election. 53% say they won’t vote for him of republicans and independents. But it’s all in the wording in most polls. Imho it seems to me there is a significant number that has decided not to vote for him. Then I remember that about 10% of Blacks voted for Trump last election which is huge for a Republican. Now that Trump is a thug and arrested his popularity and polls are going higher while others like 2nd place DeSantis numbers have been cut in half. YouTube I’m seeing more and more Blacks saying other blacks are beginning to like Trump. Be a real blow to the democrat slave plantation if a huge % of Blacks broke free and went with Trump….maybe not even stuffed ballot boxes would be enough. But as Tucker said, the next step seems to be assignation.

I still go pretty much by RCP average. It really lags current events though. It's a virtual tie, but that was before the Trump arraignment.



But nationwide polling doesn't give the whole story. The swing states are obviously the unknown. There isn't a lot of reliable polling in swing states to go by right now. I doubt Biden is far ahead in swing states if at all. I think the arraignment is helping Trump more than hurting him. Bottom line, I think that polling does not predict Trump can't win. It's way to early for anyone to predict that.

 

[jamil]

And that is unconstitutional in the process of selecting EC voters. The equal protection and civil rights violations are a different animal.

I live in a constitutional representative republic and that constitution rules, and no it did not account for every dirty trick corrupt politicians can throw at it.

The article I linked said if the dirty politicians wanted to the crap could have hit the fan in 9 of 34 elections.

“In each case, political actors playing constitutional hardball could execute the strategy while staying within the strict bounds of the law by abandoning informal constitutional norms.”

That is what I believe you are saying, the the Eastman proposals would surpass, “informal constitutional norms”, but I do not believe they violate the constitution.

It relies on passing off fake electors as certified electors. It's one thing to have duly certified (all the I's dotted, T's crossed) albeit chosen through an anomalous election (changed deadlines, etcetera). It's another thing to send in another set of electors to create a fake controversy. I'm not sure I'd call that fraud, but it's certainly not legit. Neither is what PA did, but we're not only talking about PA. We're talking about all 7 of the affected states.

 

[blain]

Are celebrities promising a move to Canada if Donald J. Trump wins this time around?
How many did the U.S. lose in 2016?

 

[jamil]

Not enough.

 

[jamil]

Ooh. Pretty sure Alec Baldwin said he'd move. So if he kept his word, would he have shot that woman? Would the movie even have been a thing? See. Keeping your word is important.

 

[actaeon277]

I don't think a single one moved.

But I could be wrong.

 

[KG1]

I have not seen any evidence of this plan. He was asked to send the electors back to their respective legislatures giving time to let them send the electors of their choosing and to throw it to the house and senate, both of which seem constitutional to me…

They "seem" to be constitutional to you? Rather It seems to me that you want it to be constitutional just like Trump and Eastman wanted their legal theory to be constitutional without any basis.

Eastman’s plan was for Pence to halt the state certified elector count in congress and demand that the states somehow confirm or reconsider their votes over a ten day period. Is there even any constitutional basis for this idea? Eastman’s suggestion was that Pence could simply make it up on the spot, concocting the whole procedure out of thin air.

In reality there is no constitutional authority whatsoever for the vice president to unilaterally halt the joint session, “send the votes back” to the states, demand that state legislatures somehow act on his instructions, and set a later date for Congress to reconvene.

No law or provision of the Constitution envisions anything like it. Simply put, he made it up.

 

[DragonGunner]

I don't think a single one moved.

But I could be wrong.

Well children will be children.

 

[Ingomike]

They "seem" to be constitutional to you? Rather It seems to me that you want it to be constitutional just like Trump and Eastman wanted their legal theory to be constitutional without any basis.

Can you just tell me what you believe and stop with the telling me what I believe?

When were you a constitutional scholar?

I just posted last evening that the top scholars in the country say this has not been litigated and has rarely been debated in our countries history so give your opinion just as I will but get off telling me what I think…

 

[Ingomike]

In reality there is no constitutional authority whatsoever for the vice president to unilaterally halt the joint session, “send the votes back” to the states, demand that state legislatures somehow act on his instructions, and set a later date for Congress to reconvene.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

In a case where a constitutional officer knows there is unconstitutional action behind the votes sent by the SOS of a state if he certifies those votes did he violate his oath? I say yes. The VP is not an automatron like is being portrayed here. Otherwise the founders could have had a clerk do it .

So if the VP receives tainted votes, multiple votes all claiming to be the certified votes from the state legislature the VP has no authority to do anything?

 

[KLB]

So if the VP receives tainted votes, multiple votes all claiming to be the certified votes from the state legislature the VP has no authority to do anything?

When has that happened?

 

[Ingomike]

When has that happened?

The scholars say it could have happened 9 times out of 34 elections. In the majority of those cases the result was obtained by political negotiations between the candidates and parties where the public was likely in the dark about what happened for decades.

We all have lived through a time of likely unprecedented political peace in our country and normalcy bias seems to believe that is and will always be the status quo forever. It will not. Those that want to take over this country and pervert the constitution are now too powerful to let it go.

There was a national multifaceted organized effort by those wanting power to defeat the traditional voter base of this country and the ideals of freedom outlined in the constitution. The very definition of freedom is being perverted. Freedom to me is defined by the first and second amendments, to todays masses, including 60 million legal and illegal immigrants and their kids, freedom is a censored phone or TV.

Pence is another one that just does not know what time it is…

 

[KG1]

Can you just tell me what you believe and stop with the telling me what I believe?

When were you a constitutional scholar?

I just posted last evening that the top scholars in the country say this has not been litigated and has rarely been debated in our countries history so give your opinion just as I will but get off telling me what I think…

I gave my opinion that it seemed to me you want it to be constitutional even though it has not been deemed so.

Simple question. Do you want it to be so? Was I wrong?

 

[Ingomike]

I gave my opinion that it seemed to me you want it to be constitutional even though it has not been deemed so.

Simple question. Do you want it to be so? Was I wrong?

It does not matter what I want, I believe it is constitutional.

Now, answer my question.

“So if the VP receives tainted votes, multiple votes all claiming to be the certified votes from the state legislature the VP has no authority to do anything?” Is he violating his oath by certifying unconstitutional votes? It is not just for the courts to decide. The constitution is not a fatal pact.

Some here act like courts are a giant mommy and daddy the squabbling kids run to for absolute decisions when the constitution makes ALL oath takers responsible for its defense and survival. If you look at it from this perspective it is clearer how the VP has that latitude and is still constitutional. I also believe the courts turned down the most of the cases because they were not going to get involved in election squabbles.

 

[KLB]

The scholars say it could have happened 9 times out of 34 elections. In the majority of those cases the result was obtained by political negotiations between the candidates and parties where the public was likely in the dark about what happened for decades.

We all have lived through a time of likely unprecedented political peace in our country and normalcy bias seems to believe that is and will always be the status quo forever. It will not. Those that want to take over this country and pervert the constitution are now too powerful to let it go.

There was a national multifaceted organized effort by those wanting power to defeat the traditional voter base of this country and the ideals of freedom outlined in the constitution. The very definition of freedom is being perverted. Freedom to me is defined by the first and second amendments, to todays masses, including 60 million legal and illegal immigrants and their kids, freedom is a censored phone or TV.

Pence is another one that just does not know what time it is…

I'm at a loss to see how two sets of electors could both be certified by the legislature of a state. I know there were instances where a second set was chosen awaiting the outcome of a court case, but not where the legislature had two different sets approved.