Trump 2024 ???

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    Twangbanger

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    Correlation does not equal causation. Trumps personality and political positions did not change, the left loved it when he was going after Jeb and the gang, but after he won the nomination things changed, (and it sure as heck was not his personality). That many cannot accept that Trump used that abrasiveness to win the election is as interesting as the squishies that cannot abide a man that speaks his mind…
    Most people don't love Trump's abrasiveness. The abrasiveness is something they tolerate, as long as he's giving them something in return that's worth it. And that's what members of the Trump Personality Cult don't understand. In 2016 voters liked that he was willing to bring up important issues that Lobbyist-funded Republicans won't talk about. When Trump stops giving that, the support goes away.

    For example, Trump didn't win 2016 by being abrasive. He won by publicly shaming companies like Carrier Corporation for planning to shut down their Indy plant and send the jobs to Mexico. Many people have forgotten that was his signature issue in 2016. He was more identified with that than any other single issue. He was the ONLY Republican candidate saying that, and people loved it. They were not used to hearing a Republican stand up to the Free Trade Mafia. That was an example of Trump being the leader we all loved him to be. It was not abrasiveness. It was willingness to raise an issue nobody else would raise.

    But remember - that victory was by ~80,000 votes spread over 3 states. It was paper-thin.

    Since then, Trump has largely abandoned the Trade issue, and obsessed over attacking his enemies and disputing the 2020 election. That 80,000 vote margin disappeared and turned into a deficit, because Trump changed what he was talking about.

    He's a pain in the @$$, but people tolerated him because he provided value. When he stops providing that value (stumping about Free Trade, etc.) his support ebbs back down to his 30% personality cult. Which simply isn't enough to win elections.
     

    Ingomike

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    You can't do anything legally in those states, much like trying to stop election corruption in chicago. You can put the machine on the defensive in places where it is illegal, and help push it out into the light. Anything is a start and right now republicans are way behind. Sitting in a country club sipping a martini isn't going to get them back in the national game. Get in and start spending money, find out what the other side is paying, hire your own mercenaries.

    There is a Japanese saying I learned in the 80s that means "Business is war".

    I believe we are going to see an RNC that lacks money to compete with the DNC. Why? Because we are witnessing a tectonic shift in our business and politics. Not sure who the republicans are sipping the martinis, but it sure as heck is not the mega globalist oligarch corporations, they are funding the DNC, as is banking and Wall Street. The days of all business supporting the RNC are over, heck other than a money drain of small local business to the dems, the CoC is over other than local stuff.

    I believe the republicans have become the party of the working folks and their goals no longer align with big business. The problem AF have is the leadership of the RNC is addicted to big corporate money, hence McConnell’s threat to actually do what the republicans voters want to the dems, but he never brings up those issues otherwise.

    We, the working class are going to have to fund the AF agenda, big business certainly is not…
     

    Ingomike

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    But remember - that victory was by ~80,000 votes spread over 3 states. It was paper-thin.
    A likely correct observation but lacking context, obummer won what was called a landslide by 300,000 votes spread over 5 states to defeat Romney. It is not typical to win by millions of votes. The EC makes it 50 separate elections to win, it is usually fairly close.
     

    SheepDog4Life

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    @indymike I concur with what @Twangbanger said above and would add...

    Most presidents looking for a second term look at the mid-term results in their first term and usually re-calibrate years 3 and 4 towards getting the second term.

    Trump did not do this.

    In the 2018 mid-terms, the only Senate seats we "gained" were ND, MO, FL and IN... deep red states that never should have been Dem in the first place. But we LOST AZ and NV to the Dems. So what looks like a +2 was really a -2, IMO.

    In the House, we lost 41 seats and control of the chamber with a Dem +8.6% popular vote in the House races.

    We also lost SEVEN governor mansions.

    All of this screams, re-calibrate if you want to win in 2020.

    Trump did not... he turned simply turned the volume up to 11.

    And, finally, Trump has been the national party leader since he won the nomination in 2016. He has not created a winning coalition around him, quite the opposite. The 2022 results tell me that if Trump is our nominee in 2024, we will lose not only the White House, but control of the House and Senate by margins sufficient for the Dems to pass everything on their wish list. This time, they will not dither... even if their hegemony only lasts for 2 years, they will pass everything.
     

    Ingomike

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    In the 2018 mid-terms, the only Senate seats we "gained" were ND, MO, FL and IN... deep red states that never should have been Dem in the first place. But we LOST AZ and NV to the Dems. So what looks like a +2 was really a -2, IMO.

    In the House, we lost 41 seats and control of the chamber with a Dem +8.6% popular vote in the House races.
    Talk about revisionist history. The lost house seats were because they retired rather than support America First, including the speaker. McConnell refuses to give AF senate candidates proper support to win. But if it makes you feel better you can blame Trump…
     

    Ingomike

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    And, finally, Trump has been the national party leader since he won the nomination in 2016. He has not created a winning coalition around him, quite the opposite. The 2022 results tell me that if Trump is our nominee in 2024, we will lose not only the White House, but control of the House and Senate by margins sufficient for the Dems to pass everything on their wish list. This time, they will not dither... even if their hegemony only lasts for 2 years, they will pass everything.
    Got it, Trump is failing your expectations. Some of you guys are unbelievable. You still talk like this is the politics of 2000, got news for you, it ain’t. If you want a coalition, the CoC republicans will be more than happy to provide it. How the heck did that become Trump’s responsibility anyway? That he is doing what he can to get AF candidates on the ballots and in office to support AF policies is great but not his job.

    Just continued TDS, blaming him for anything you can dream up…
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Gtown-ish
    A likely correct observation but lacking context, obummer won what was called a landslide by 300,000 votes spread over 5 states to defeat Romney. It is not typical to win by millions of votes. The EC makes it 50 separate elections to win, it is usually fairly close.
    This looks like a snopes factcheck. True but false, because reasons.
     

    SheepDog4Life

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    Talk about revisionist history. The lost house seats were because they retired rather than support America First, including the speaker.
    Ummmm... Paul Ryan's district, WI-1, stayed Republican, won by Bryan Steil in 2018, who also won in 2020 and 2022... i.e. stayed RED throughout.

    And if Trump is an AF coalition builder, where are all the AF candidates he recruited to run and take those seats that were retired?

    THAT is what a successful national party leader does.

    McConnell refuses to give AF senate candidates proper support to win. But if it makes you feel better you can blame Trump…
    WHAT! In Arizona 2018, McConnell endorsed and supported McSally. So did Pence. Want to know who did NOT endorse the AZ 2018 Senate Republican candidate? Trump!


    In Nevada 2018, Heller kibitzed on supporting Kavanaugh and supported a "full FBI" investigation of the high school accusations from 35 years prior:

     

    SheepDog4Life

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    Got it, Trump is failing your expectations. Some of you guys are unbelievable. You still talk like this is the politics of 2000, got news for you, it ain’t. If you want a coalition, the CoC republicans will be more than happy to provide it. How the heck did that become Trump’s responsibility anyway? That he is doing what he can to get AF candidates on the ballots and in office to support AF policies is great but not his job.

    Yes, it is... that is what the national leader of the party does.

    It is also what good political leaders do... build coalitions.

    Trump does the opposite. He destroys coalitions. He has turned almost every political ally and cabinet member he's ever had into an enemy. Given time, the list will complete itself. It's what he does... loose canon firing in all directions.

    Just continued TDS, blaming him for anything you can dream up…
    Look, Mike, I'm a former supporter and two time voter for Trump.

    I'm tired of losing due to Trump's massive, and massively fragile, ego.

    Sorry, to me, no matter how I look at it, he's a loser and HE'S FIRED!
     

    foszoe

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    I don't think Biden voters voted for him because Kamala was picked to be on the ticket. They voted for Biden to get rid of Trump. It didn't matter who else was picked to be his running mate. IMO she added nothing of value and still to this day hasn't.

    Edit:; Caveat. The only possible value that she added was entertainment value.
    I agree.

    She wasn't hot enough.

    Now if Tulsi had been on the ticket.....

    The Dems wouldn't have needed to cheat, it would have been lopsided.
     

    foszoe

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    Look, Mike, I'm a former supporter and two time voter for Trump.

    I'm tired of losing due to Trump's massive, and massively fragile, ego.

    Sorry, to me, no matter how I look at it, he's a loser and HE'S FIRED!
    Two phrases that seem childish but are continually used against those who voted for Trump twice but don't think he is God....

    accusations of TDS

    but mean tweets....

    especially when one is on record as saying they would vote for him again in a general election.

    I think Trump supporters do more damage to him than Trump himself.
     

    Ingomike

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    Look, Mike, I'm a former supporter and two time voter for Trump.

    I'm tired of losing due to Trump's massive, and massively fragile, ego.

    Sorry, to me, no matter how I look at it, he's a loser and HE'S FIRED!
    I am tired of people that cannot fathom how difficult it is to change the course this country is on. Just expecting someone else to do it and be nice doing it. How naive to think that the massive direction change, a change that will completely change everything, including the corruption, (not eliminate, change, because corruption will always exist.) can be done with friendly coalitions.
     

    SheepDog4Life

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    Talk about revisionist history. The lost house seats were because they retired rather than support America First, including the speaker. McConnell refuses to give AF senate candidates proper support to win. But if it makes you feel better you can blame Trump…
    And if you're talking about the 2022 elections, McConnell's Senate Leadership Fund Super-PAC poured $135M into the GA, PA and OH races, more than ALL OTHER RACES combined. (there were like, 33-34 Senate races)


    Trump's $100M MAGA Super Fund spent $9.3M on those three races, most of it in the last week or two of the races. Trump additionally spent $3.7M in the AZ race where SLF did not invest any money.


    So, in 2022, McConnell had $235M and spent it ALL on races, including $135M on Trump clown candidates.

    Trump had $100M and spent about $13M on his hand-picked candidates. Keeping the vast majority for himself to TRANSFER to his Presidential fund.

    Who failed to give 2022 AF Senate candidates "proper" support?
     

    Ingomike

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    Yes, it is... that is what the national leader of the party does.

    It is also what good political leaders do... build coalitions.

    Trump does the opposite. He destroys coalitions. He has turned almost every political ally and cabinet member he's ever had into an enemy. Given time, the list will complete itself. It's what he does... loose canon firing in all directions.
    Apparently you are happy with the status quo in DC, I am not. I want the coalitions burned down to the ground. How do you compromise with those coalitions? America First, sometimes? I hope you realize that the DC bureaucrats are not AF and it is exceedingly hard to find quality folks willing to go through what Flynn did, which was a warning to any that may consider trying.

    I am sure the swamp can come up with a RINO slate you can get behind…
     

    SheepDog4Life

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    I am tired of people that cannot fathom how difficult it is to change the course this country is on. Just expecting someone else to do it and be nice doing it. How naive to think that the massive direction change, a change that will completely change everything, including the corruption, (not eliminate, change, because corruption will always exist.) can be done with friendly coalitions.
    I never said "be nice" or "friendly coalitions".

    Just don't be a total ******bag running around stepping on your own **** every other day.

    To change anything, you have to win. Trump cannot. And he does not pick winners for seats needed to make these changes.

    Time to look for someone else.
     

    SheepDog4Life

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    Apparently you are happy with the status quo in DC, I am not. I want the coalitions burned down to the ground. How do you compromise with those coalitions? America First, sometimes? I hope you realize that the DC bureaucrats are not AF and it is exceedingly hard to find quality folks willing to go through what Flynn did, which was a warning to any that may consider trying.

    I am sure the swamp can come up with a RINO slate you can get behind…
    Nope! There is a third way.

    I define a coalition as 218 House votes and 51 Senate votes... more is gravy.

    Without that, it stays the same... or gets worse.

    And, it can get worse, you know that right? We'll see a preview with the radical judicial appointments Biden can get through the Senate now with the extra vote.

    We will lose the 2024 election because of threads like this.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Trump 2024? Yes, that is an election loser. :)
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Got it, Trump is failing your expectations. Some of you guys are unbelievable. You still talk like this is the politics of 2000, got news for you, it ain’t. If you want a coalition, the CoC republicans will be more than happy to provide it. How the heck did that become Trump’s responsibility anyway? That he is doing what he can to get AF candidates on the ballots and in office to support AF policies is great but not his job.

    Just continued TDS, blaming him for anything you can dream up…
    Let me just say this bluntly. There aren't enough Trumpers to do it on your own. It is delusional to think you do. You can't win without a coelition. I'm not talking about CoC/Neocon congress critters. I'm talking about rank and file citizens who might see the problem with wokeness, but also have a problem with Trump's behavior.

    It looks to me like you're more amenable to the idea that Trump is doing what he can to get AF candidates on the ballots. Is Oz really an AF candidate?

    These are questions that are problematic for you, it appears. You'll be off looking for excuses for why Trump picking Oz isn't the problem that it obviously makes clear. And any time someone brings up one of those difficult points, you accuse them of being TDS. I'm starting to think that TDS is just proportional to the difficulty you experience trying to conjure excuses.

    Jeez. Trump has some faults. Everyone does. When you can't admit that, do you not see the reason I might suspect it's more about the person than the platform? I don't care that you want Trump to represent the party. We can agree to disagree on that. You could just say, ya, all that may be true, but I still think Trump is the best candidate. Okay. Fine. Instead, no criticism can be put forth without a passionate defense, even if irrational.
     
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