Trump 2024 — The second term

[KG1]

Is that a record for you? It's a really long post.

I had to take a break about halfway through.

 

[indiucky]

Remember the good old days when we thought there was two parties and people would vote for one of them???? Remember we thought they cared about us but they really only cared about their 401K and Raytheon stock profits???? .and then Trump came along and told us about it and and the powers to be wouldn't quit talking about Trump and how much they hated him????? I've got great news....it's happening again...

Nice....Is everyone behind him now???

No sir...There's an element that he broke....and they just complain about him daily online...it's quite funny really...

You mean like women on the View???

No...you're gonna crack up when I tell you who though....

Wait a minute...YOU watch the View???

No sir...but they do post on my favorite gun forum...

No.....

Yep....

 

[Ingomike]

I think his point was that it's bad form and selfish of Trump to rant about his political persecution on Christmas eve instead of talking about baby Jesus in the manger.

Whatever Trump does is bad form and selfish to the same people, over and over and over. No matter what. If he gave his fortune to the poor today complainers here with TDS would accuse him of doing it for selfish reasons…

 

[indiucky]

Whatever Trump does is bad form and selfish to the same people, over and over and over. No matter what. If he gave his fortune to the poor today complainers here with TDS would accuse him of doing it for selfish reasons…

 

[KG1]

"Destroyer indiuky has entered the chat."

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Well, another thing is that sometimes Trump isn't a stellar client. He runs his mouth too much. I'm sure top tier has less of a tolerance for representing clients that do that.

Because they don't have too put up with it... and having a client who sabotages their case isn't conducive to their win streaks... top tier legal talent has a line out the door of prospective clients.

They also take a large retainer upfront... just saying... rumors are Trump is slow to pay his attorneys... could just be TDS.

Because when what you are doing is very successful (keeps rising in the polls), one would always stop doing that and institute a different plan…

Soooo... seek out more indictments?

Let's recap.

There was some back and fort about Trump hiring incompetent lawyers.

KG1 stated (#1083) "Eastman was once thought of as a constitutional scholar. Trump trusted his counsel."

So I guess we could blame KG1 for all this. Seriously I'm not going to say KG1 is making a firm assertion here. Just saying that people thought of him as a constitutional scholar, and Trump trusted him.

SD4L (#1183) challenged Eastman's credentials as being unimpressive, citing the mediocre school he was teaching at. But, the main point of that post was in the second paragraph. Why did Trump seek out a nobody professor teaching at a nobody law school to evaluate this legal theory, when he could just take it to any legal council available to him as POTUS?

That was really the point of impugning Eastman's credentials, so he could ask the question, why Eastman and not someone better? And it was fair point that you should have addressed.

Instead, you dodged the question by implying SD4L is an elitist for using credentials to impugn Eastman's expertise. You said:

(#1187)

---

I would have NEVER thought of you as an elitist. As politicized as the Ivy League has become this is a silly thing for a conservative to say. Probably most of the best conservative lawyers will come from places the elites rate way below their indoctrination centers…

---

There aren't any actual facts expressed in that post, especially that answers why Trump is relying on a nobody. SD4L cited some facts about Eastman's credentials that tend to disintegrate Eastman's "election" scholarship. You devolved the discussion into essentially, "you should act like me" lecturing about elitism! That's a total dodge of SD4L's question.

My part of it was to challenge the logic that impugning Eastman's credentials as an "expert" is elitism. And maybe you don't like me summarizing SD4L's way to dismantle Eastman's "expertise" as "credentials". But that's what it is.

So. In post 1210, I said "Seems to me if he’s a preeminent constitutional scholar, they’re appealing to authority. Which Mike insists is elitist." You claimed in #1213 that I was changing the meaning of your posts. I think you didn't understand the point you replied to. When I said "preeminent" being an appeal to authority, I did not say you said that. I said it was an appeal to authority. And I was not claiming you said the words "appeal to authority". But the whole "elitist" thing is your sort of rebuttal SD4L. Both asserting expertise and attacking the credentials of the supposed "expert" are parts of the same fallacy. Neither guarantees that the conclusion follows the premise. When SD4L attacks Eastman's job, that's a form of the fallacy. But you called that elitist. I'm saying two things with the one statement.

In post 1212 I got to what I think is really behind the whole "elite" dodge in the first place. It's really the gist of the whole discussion on your part, which is that you need Eastman to be an actual expert. If he's not real expert, this makes Trump look pretty ****ing bad to consult a nobody. It makes it look like he couldn't get a real expert to agree with him so he sought out a nobody who would go along with it, and claim he's a scholar. This is why I asked:

"Is your belief in the validity of the legal theory that they tried to get Pence to go along with, influenced by the credibility of Eastman as a legal scholar? "

You didn't answer that, because you have see that if Eastman isn't an expert, then Trump falls into the typical political trap where where the politician must either admit to being corrupt or incompetent, where the best play is to admit to incompetence.

So. That's where we are. Those are my thoughts. Maybe I'm right, or maybe I'm wrong, but I did not claim you said something you didn't say.

On SD4L's pertinent question, can you salvage a win on Eastman as an expert? Or is the best explanation for Trump's actions that he's either corrupt or incompetent? I am confident you won't dodge this now, but will address the real question.

Recap? Almost a word-for-word regurgitation!

But you are correct... my position is that Trump searches first for attorneys who will do what he wants, not for top tier talent that advises him about reality. Eastman is not and was not a "pre-immenent constitutional scholar... and according to Eastman, he did not bring the theory to Trump nor did he endorse it as actually true, be only wrote the memo to outline the steps to implement it... according to him and also according to the Pence camp, confirming this, as Eastman told Pence, "NO, the VP does not have the power to ****can electoral votes."

This introduction doesn't sound as good if you're trying to sell.

I tend towards the literal....

Lost, probably unfairly because in key states election laws were overlooked regarding mail-in ballots for the purpose of favoring Biden. I say "probably" because we can't know who would have won if this had been a nominal election. That's the most I'll claim about "stolen" given the facts. Most I can say is "unfairly".

I'll disagree... I've yet to see wide spread FRAUDULENT votes in any of the 6 states. Maybe I'm mis-reading what you're saying, but it sounds like you're saying that COVID should have suppressed voting more than it did with mail-in voting allowed... that mail-in voting unsuppressed the vote and Biden won with real votes, from real voters, but allowing them to vote via mail-in ballot was somehow unfair. Not trying to put words into you mouth, just what it sounds like on this end of the internet.

I do recall Trump lying about Arizona mailing ballots that were not requested by the voters... Trump abandoned that lawsuit.

Let me take the stand in my defense prosecutor jamil.

I never said that "I" thought of Eastman as a constitutional scholar. Apparently, Trump and Guliani did and they presented him as one.

Yeah, I didn't mean to tag you with that... I know you (and @jamil sarcastically pokes at it) didn't introduce Eastman as pre-immentent. I was too lazy to search out the Trump side Trumpeting Trump's Constitutional scholar when he was anonymous... turns out he was just obscure. Lol!

This is my favorite thread....I thought the magic of 2016 was gone forever...a moment in time never to be repeated...but I come here and it's happening again with the same cast repeating the same lines from season 1....

The only thing missing is Kut and Russia....Any of the TDS crowd remember Russian collusion???? Russian wee wee tapes??? No????

Just the election and....wait for it....January 6th (gasp!!!!!) Here's a pic from January 6th...no wait...I am sorry...that's a pic of the white house from June of 2020....mea culpa....


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Good to see you again Indiucky, though I though you'd re-surface in the Salma thread first!

Ah, yes, I recall "debating" with Kut the Enquirer Pee-Pee Memos... which immediately pegged my BS meter.

Is that a record for you? It's a really long post.

I guess no.

ETA: ARE YOU NEW TO INGO!!!!

 

[SheepDog4Life]

"Destroyer indiuky has entered the chat."

I'm predicting a Salma picture storm.

A little Salma is always welcome.

 

[indiucky]

I'm predicting a Salma picture storm.

A little Salma is always welcome.

 

[Ingomike]

IMO, the Gateway Pundit is in the same league as The Huffington Post... either lies, or propoganda, or both is a good starting assumption.

You are entitled to your opinion but are making a mistake in judgement. I believe you said GWP used to do some good, a site which I look at a few time a week, why is it different now? They demonetized them and they had to go to a more tabloid style.

I have challenged @jamil to this before but he never steps up, go to GWP page now and tell me the lies/propaganda. The truth is they mostly publish what conservative leaders say that MSN will never put out and analysis of news and stories buried in other publications. They also give voices that cannot get out in our censorship era.

I look at GWP (and other conservative media maligned by many self proclaimed conservatives) like ham radio, it once was a hobby but the left takeover of media is like mainstream communications failing. It isn’t going to be like making a phone call but the communication still can happen.

They are using nostalgia and normalcy bias to sucker conservatives into bashing the conservative media, and those that still are looking for Walter Cronkite, he is dead and so is his era…

 

[KG1]

Yeah, I didn't mean to tag you with that... I know you (and @jamil sarcastically pokes at it) didn't introduce Eastman as pre-immentent. I was too lazy to search out the Trump side Trumpeting Trump's Constitutional scholar when he was anonymous... turns out he was just obscure. Lol!

 

[KG1]

I'm predicting a Salma picture storm.

A little Salma is always welcome.

I can get onboard with that.

 

[KG1]

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I like this arguement.

 

[jamil]

Let me take the stand in my defense prosecutor jamil.

I never said that "I" thought of Eastman as a constitutional scholar. Apparently, Trump and Guliani did and they presented him as one.

LOL, oh, you're correct. I just wish I'd have said something like the following:

"Seriously I'm not going to say KG1 is making a firm assertion here. Just saying that people thought of him as a constitutional scholar, and Trump trusted him."

If only.

But, I still blame you for saying it because that's what got the whole thing going.

Obviously kidding.

 

[Ingomike]

So Trump lies about the election being rigged and stolen... and some percentage of people believe him... so now it's true?

Hard to have a discussion on a topic that we cannot agree on. Plenty of evidence, heck they even gloated about rigging the election in their left publications but you are a true denier, even worse a denier of the sources that get around the control of the elites.

I view denial of election being rigged similarly to the people in movies insisting on niceties to clear enemies and ignoring those that see what is actually happening…

 

[KG1]

LOL, oh, you're correct. I just wish I'd have said something like the following:

"Seriously I'm not going to say KG1 is making a firm assertion here. Just saying that people thought of him as a constitutional scholar, and Trump trusted him."

If only.

But, I still blame you for saying it because that's what got the whole thing going.

Obviously kidding.

Hey, I'm all about generating spirited conversation.

 

[Ingomike]

So Trump lies about the election being rigged and stolen... and some percentage of people believe him... so now it's true?

ROFLMAO

I recently found this compendium... catalogues the results of every count of every case filed by Trump or on his behalf in all six swing states. 64 cases containing 187 counts of which Trump won exactly one... concernign 270 votes in PA.

Lost, Not Stolen

The Conservative Case that Trump Lost and Biden Won the 2020 Presidential Election

lostnotstolen.org

Didn’t read. Nice list of RINO’s though…

 

[jamil]

This is my favorite thread....I thought the magic of 2016 was gone forever...a moment in time never to be repeated...but I come here and it's happening again with the same cast repeating the same lines from season 1....

The only thing missing is Kut and Russia....Any of the TDS crowd remember Russian collusion???? Russian wee wee tapes??? No????

Just the election and....wait for it....January 6th (gasp!!!!!) Here's a pic from January 6th...no wait...I am sorry...that's a pic of the white house from June of 2020....mea culpa....


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I just try to call them like I see them. I like the MAGA theme. I wish Trump would stick with that. Talk about what's wrong with the country now, and how to make it right. And election reform should be a part of that. But not in a whiny way. Trumpers can't rely on a bad economy to get Trump elected. They tried that in 2022, which should have been a red wave. If Trump tries to make this more about him than about MAGA, I think that's not going to create reliable voters.

 

[indiucky]

Hard to have a discussion on a topic that we cannot agree on. Plenty of evidence, heck they even gloated about rigging the election in their left publications but you are a true denier, even worse a denier of the sources that get around the control of the elites.

I view denial of election being rigged similarly to the people in movies insisting on niceties to clear enemies and ignoring those that see what is actually happening…

Time ran an article explaining how it was all for our own good.....

The Secret History of the Shadow Campaign That Saved the 2020 Election

For more than a year, a loosely organized coalition of operatives scrambled to shore up America’s institutions

time.com

 

[Ingomike]

Lost, probably unfairly because in key states election laws were overlooked regarding mail-in ballots for the purpose of favoring Biden. I say "probably" because we can't know who would have won if this had been a nominal election. That's the most I'll claim about "stolen" given the facts. Most I can say is "unfairly".

WHAT YOU DESCRIBE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

Why does that not bother you self proclaimed republicans?

 

[jamil]

I think maybe you forgot to quote a post to provide the context of the person's post you are replying to. Pretty sure it's IM.

****. Yeah, I forgot that. Here. Let me dig that up.

Never said.


Never said.

Sure replied to me often enough…