Town Hall Meeting: INGO and Law Enforcement

[Dirtebiker]

Most LEO's here feel about as welcome as a turd in a punch bowl.
After you've been here longer and have read a few thousand negative LEO posts you'll get the general idea.

Fair enough, I have only been here a couple months.
Do you know for a fact or is it your opinion that " MOST" LEO's feel that way?
No matter what kind of disagreement you may have with another person or group of people, you should be mature enough to be able to disagree,argue back and forth(healthy debate), come to a conclusion... or not, and move on!!!

Fenway, is the problem that you have LEO's complaining to you, or the fact that you personally don't like what has allegedly been happening in the last "few thousand negative posts"?

I'm sure that after I've been around longer and been able to read more of these posts, and get to know some of you better, then maybe I will see the problem, but right now, I haven't seen "TOO" much of anything that I would consider LEO bashing! If anything, I've seen "individuals" bashed, belittled, mocked, ridiculed, etc. over minuscule issues, some law enforcement issues, sure, but more often, just personal opinions!

Would it be nice if everyone could just get along? Maybe! On the other hand, isn't it great that we are all different and CAN have differences, discussions, debates,etc.?

Fenway, you do what you want.... It's your house, your rules!
I think you've got a pretty good thing going here (perhaps a little too restrictive on language, in my opinion).
I do know that when people are bored with something ( forums, etc.) they move on to something else!
Personally, I like to read and discuss issues with those I agree with as well as those that I don't!

I say everybody lighten up a little, don't take things personally(unless it's directed specifically at YOU!), if you find a discussion or particular person too offensive, insulting, distasteful, or for whatever reason you just don't like,.....CLICK......move on!!!!!!!!

 

[E5RANGER375]

I will ad this to my signature line since this seems to adress the only concerns I've heard from the LEO's and retired leo (not that he should count).

"If this is a post about Police Officers, I'm not referring to all 800,000 of you. only the bad ones. thanks! Stay Safe."

problem solved

 

[Dirtebiker]

The point is.
This is Fenway's site.
Not yours.
Not mine.
He gets to decide what the members get to read, and what they can post.
And he's ultimately responsible for whatever happens here.
If you want to decide the subject matter of a forum you'll have to start your own.

Mikey, I know this is Fenways site! I've mentioned that also! No argument here!
My comments are in response to Fenways direct question!!! PROBLEM?

 

[Dirtebiker]

Lay off the coffee son

I don't get it! DAD!

 

[Dirtebiker]

wow, dirtbiker... you are scareing even me!

I must be stupid! What the he'll are you guys talking about?

 

[DHolder]

I apologize to the LEO's who help little old ladies with kittens in a tree. BUT, if you dont want to be lumped in with the ones who ruin the image of the "police officer", then clean your own house. I dont hate cops, dont twist it to make it sound like it. I hate the poor example, of what an admirable position in society has become.

Again, if you dont want to be bashed about what your fellow officers are doing to tarnish the profession, remove the cancer.

I dont care what profession we come up with, teacher, carpenter, mechanic, whatever, if they do a crappy job and it turns into a thread on INGO, if your a teacher or carpenter, or mechanic, dont take it personal.

 

[03mustgt]

I think its great that this thread was even brought up. Personally, I used to try and participate in the political forums in a constructive manner, however as soon as you voice an opinion that a some members in that section do not like or agree with, you are anti-constitution, anti-rights, and a jack booted thug. Instead of being a constructive post, I found that a majority of my posts would end up with individuals accusing me of defending the bad LEO's, or even lumping me into that category. I think certain boundaries should be established, make a thread for serious civil discussion involving LEO's,(As Bill Says Adult like behavior).

I can handle criticism, I can handle people with different opinions, however I do not like members advocating violence against LEO's. I have seen this in threads, and I do not agree with it and feel it should not be tolerated. I have received a ton of negative rep for voicing my opinions in the political forums, however I have received the same amount of rep from people stating they are glad someone is realistic.

I guess to sum it up, I think we need a sub-forum where there should be civil discussion only for the topic of LEO's, LEO interactions, LEO questions, and even BAD LEO articles. This subforum should be open to everyone if I did not make that clear. I think the political forums should stay the same. However advocating violence for LEO's should NOT be tolerated IMO in any thread.

Also we have to remember this is the internet, its serious business! What I mean by that is I am sure I would get along with 99.99% of people from this forum if I met them in person, unfortunately its hard for me to make it to any events.

 

[Dirtebiker]

You mean the majority of posts that point out the wrongful actions of individual LEOs?

My reply...








Wow.

(Did you mean to call the Mr. Obvious Show?)


....we put up signs that say...."US" and ....."THEM"............which side do you go to........ahh nevermind

Got it! I'm a little slow!

 

[techres]

How about this:

Can we all agree this is a discussion board?

Yes, everyone, peanut gallery too? Sweet.

The problem -3mustgt is talking about is this:

Some are not discussing. They are shouting. The difference is not one of all caps (although that can happen). The difference is in wether there will be two sides or not to the conversation.

The minute some try and create a one side is good and one side is evil dynamic, then the discussion is really over and the shouting is on.

Discussion board.

Not Shouting board.

Easy enough. Where is the punch and pie...

Oh, and I still am stunned with anyone who is super concerned about:

1. Bad cops.
2. The failed war on drugs.
3. The paramilitarization of the police.
4. The future of gun confiscation.
5. Legal issues for gun owners daily lives.

Anyone concerned about these should be jumping at the chance to have real discussions with cops who:

1. Are willing to talk to them.
2. Share concerns at some level.
3. Can have a conversation with no risk of arrest or worse.
4. Spend free time with someone other than other cops behind the blue curtain.
5. Like guns more than on qualification day.

I am still slack jawed at the willingness to pass up on this opportunity we have here for building a bridge, getting some understanding, making some chances, and gaining ground in the soft war (using that old language).

So, yeah, I am willing to help out here both because I believe that no group should have a drumbeat directed at them, or that there should be an expectation and approval given for consistently rude behavior, but mostly because I have a selfish need to not squander opportunities that might just make America or Indiana a better place to hand off to my kids.

Go figure.

So, for review:

Discussion. That is the key.

If you came to shout through a bull horn while standing on a soapbox, the problem is Fenway is gonna eventually ask for both back - they're his. You can go and buy your own. It's a free country and all...

 

[Kick]

OK, I have only read about 3/4 through this thread. Therefore my apologies if it has already been said. BUT, I am thinking that limiting LEO related discussions to INDIANA LEOS and U.S. Supreme Court decisions that could affect the firearms community.

Most of the "bashing" threads that I have read seem to come from other states and they have little or nothing to so with being an "INdiana Gun Owner"

I know that there would still be some back and fourth between groups but, I think that limiting the discussion topics (as listed above) would greatly reduce the animosity between the groups to a tolerable level for all INGOers.

 

[Benny]

Most of the "bashing" threads that I have read seem to come from other states and they have little or nothing to so with being an "INdiana Gun Owner"

Yeah, a lot of them come from our neighboring state, Mr. Illinois Boy!

 

[E5RANGER375]

How about this:

Can we all agree this is a discussion board?

Yes, everyone, peanut gallery too? Sweet.

The problem -3mustgt is talking about is this:

Some are not discussing. They are shouting. The difference is not one of all caps (although that can happen). The difference is in wether there will be two sides or not to the conversation.

The minute some try and create a one side is good and one side is evil dynamic, then the discussion is really over and the shouting is on.

Discussion board.

Not Shouting board.

Easy enough. Where is the punch and pie...

Oh, and I still am stunned with anyone who is super concerned about:

1. Bad cops.
2. The failed war on drugs.
3. The paramilitarization of the police.
4. The future of gun confiscation.
5. Legal issues for gun owners daily lives.

Anyone concerned about these should be jumping at the chance to have real discussions with cops who:

1. Are willing to talk to them.
2. Share concerns at some level.
3. Can have a conversation with no risk of arrest or worse.
4. Spend free time with someone other than other cops behind the blue curtain.
5. Like guns more than on qualification day.

I am still slack jawed at the willingness to pass up on this opportunity we have here for building a bridge, getting some understanding, making some chances, and gaining ground in the soft war (using that old language).

So, yeah, I am willing to help out here both because I believe that no group should have a drumbeat directed at them, or that there should be an expectation and approval given for consistently rude behavior, but mostly because I have a selfish need to not squander opportunities that might just make America or Indiana a better place to hand off to my kids.

Go figure.

So, for review:

Discussion. That is the key.

If you came to shout through a bull horn while standing on a soapbox, the problem is Fenway is gonna eventually ask for both back - they're his. You can go and buy your own. It's a free country and all...

maybe i missed it but I have yet to see any LEO's commit to a meet up

 

[Kick]

Yeah, a lot of them come from our neighboring state, Mr. Illinois Boy!

Eh, you have it mixed up. I work in "Illinois proper", most of the stories come from the state of Chicago

 

[techres]

maybe i missed it but I have yet to see any LEO's commit to a meet up

Not specifically a meet, but in general INGO offers all of the above in either personal or virtual opportunities. I would rather spend my time talking with cops after they have read something like the book we all sent to sheriffs last year and have a good conversation about it than I would spending thread after thread going on about jack booted thugs.

Guess which might have some kind of better future in it.

Do I have my own issues and baggage? Sure.
Do I have my own fears and concerns? You are darned tootin.

But I am interested in more than catharsis. I am interested in results.

So, no, I was not being specific to one event but was talking about what INGO actually offers in a more general way.

 

[Benny]

maybe i missed it but I have yet to see any LEO's commit to a meet up

Call me crazy, but I would bet my INGO membership that at least Denny and Frank would be there if they could make it.

It's a moot idea though, because ZERO of our local blind cop bashers would show up and that's who the meet up would be for.

 

[Bunnykid68]

If I may interject something here to help keep everything in perspective.......
I LIKE BACON

 

[03mustgt]

maybe i missed it but I have yet to see any LEO's commit to a meet up

I apologize, but working 4 jobs makes it tough. My family time is already too little.

 

[Kick]

maybe i missed it but I have yet to see any LEO's commit to a meet up

I work in Illinois and live in Lake County. I think that majority of the opposing groups with the exception of a few live within 30 minutes of Indy. I wouldn't want to "commit" to a meet that far away and not be able to make it for whatever reason. If I were closer, I know that I would find time to swing by. But, with a pregnant wife who works full time and two small children at home, it's not easy to find the kind of time travel and a meet would take. However, if a meet was arranged, I would make a reasonable effort to attend. I still haven't had an opportunity to meet many INGOers.

 

[KG1]

OK, I have only read about 3/4 through this thread. Therefore my apologies if it has already been said. BUT, I am thinking that limiting LEO related discussions to INDIANA LEOS and U.S. Supreme Court decisions that could affect the firearms community.

Most of the "bashing" threads that I have read seem to come from other states and they have little or nothing to so with being an "INdiana Gun Owner"

I know that there would still be some back and fourth between groups but, I think that limiting the discussion topics (as listed above) would greatly reduce the animosity between the groups to a tolerable level for all INGOers.

Would limiting the discussion to just Indiana LE be a hinder to some people that travel out of state and might find some useful information on LE practices in other parts of the country?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Would limiting the discussion to just Indiana LE be a hinder to some people that travel out of state and might find some useful information on LE practices in other parts of the country?

I also find bad LEO interactions from wherever they may be educational as it lets one know how bad it is in other areas of our country and how bad it could be here.