Pard ad

To Mask or Not to Mask?

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!

    • Register Log in
    Status
    Not open for further replies.
    CampingJosh

    CampingJosh

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    18   0   0
    Dec 16, 2010
    3,298
    99
    jamil said:
    No, it’s not a logical flaw, it’s a misapplication of argument. He believes the virus is more dangerous than you believe it is.
    Click to expand...
    Not necessarily. I'm not making my judgement that we should all be wearing masks when out in public because of only the danger of the virus itself; I'm also looking at the outcomes to our country from the continuation of the spread. It seems to me the worst thing we can do for our country, economy, and world is to keep spreading it in such a way that we have to continue with lockdowns, event cancellations, Zoom weddings, permanent restaurant closings, the loss of service-sector jobs, etc.
    He thinks masks are more effective than you think they are: He thinks they’re easier to wear than perhaps you do.
    Click to expand...
    My answer here is that masks are "some" effective. We don't have to know exactly how much to know that some beats none. Lots of studies show that they have at least some effectiveness. The studies that claim "useless" seem to be testing the effectiveness of stopping the wearer from becoming infected. But that's different than being societally useless. Masks stop at least some respiratory droplets from reaching other people.

    I will say that I probably do think masks are easier to wear than anyone on the anti-mask side. I have had no difficulty at all with any of the four kinds I've worn, and I've worn two of those four kinds for more than 6 hours nonstop.

    I'm fine with reasonable accommodations for people who have genuine difficulty in wearing masks. Face shields are almost certainly worse, but they probably still block some parts of coughs and sneezes. But people who can't wear masks really hasn't been the discussion here. The discussion has focused on people who can wear masks choosing whether or no to do so.
    I suspect that if you both believed the same things about the circus and bout masks, you’d likely wear masks voluntarily, or not, depending on which of the same side you’re on. That’s why this is not a moral issue. It’s a difference of belief. The sooner everyone understands that, the sooner people can stop talking past each other. And maybe then Josh can get off his moral superiority kick, and you guys can stop thinking you’re so much smarter.
    Click to expand...
    That it's a difference of belief doesn't mean it's not a moral issue. Just because a person acts on his beliefs doesn't mean he acts morally; not all belief sets are equally moral. That's really easy to prove. Everyone acts on their belief sets. Not everyone acts equally morally.

    The longer this public health situation goes on, the worse the outcomes for nearly everyone. There are several countries that have largely moved past this, and I really wish we could join them. There are certainly a number of factors that have all combined to squash this thing, but in every one of those countries, a very high rate of compliance with masking was one of the factors.

    Spreading the virus, even unknowingly, is making the situation worse. When a person unnecessarily makes a situation worse for others, I think that's immoral.
     
    SheepDog4Life

    SheepDog4Life

    Natural Gray Man
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    May 14, 2016
    5,385
    113
    Upstate SC
    jamil

    jamil

    code ho
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    62,401
    113
    Gtown-ish
    CampingJosh said:
    Not necessarily. I'm not making my judgement that we should all be wearing masks when out in public because of only the danger of the virus itself; I'm also looking at the outcomes to our country from the continuation of the spread. It seems to me the worst thing we can do for our country, economy, and world is to keep spreading it in such a way that we have to continue with lockdowns, event cancellations, Zoom weddings, permanent restaurant closings, the loss of service-sector jobs, etc.
    Click to expand...
    That's kind of a distinction without a difference. There are a couple main beliefs common to that side of the divide, either of which fits the thing I'm saying. 1) People don't believe that mask work, and/or, 2) people don't believe the virus is any worse than the flu. Either of those are matters of belief, where if they believed the same as you, I'm pretty sure they might have a view of masks closer to yours.

    My answer here is that masks are "some" effective. We don't have to know exactly how much to know that some beats none. Lots of studies show that they have at least some effectiveness. The studies that claim "useless" seem to be testing the effectiveness of stopping the wearer from becoming infected. But that's different than being societally useless. Masks stop at least some respiratory droplets from reaching other people.
    Click to expand...
    It's still an issue of belief. You believe masks are more effective than the people you're morality shaming. Despite the studies suggesting otherwise, people still don't think they work, and that's not because they're idiots. Lots of smart people believe things that are counter to the evidence. Belief has nothing to do with intelligence or morals. The people who think masks don't work don't trust the people who claim they do. A fundamental factor in any belief is trusting the information that led you to the belief.

    That it's a difference of belief doesn't mean it's not a moral issue. Just because a person acts on his beliefs doesn't mean he acts morally; not all belief sets are equally moral. That's really easy to prove. Everyone acts on their belief sets. Not everyone acts equally morally.

    The longer this public health situation goes on, the worse the outcomes for nearly everyone. There are several countries that have largely moved past this, and I really wish we could join them. There are certainly a number of factors that have all combined to squash this thing, but in every one of those countries, a very high rate of compliance with masking was one of the factors.

    Spreading the virus, even unknowingly, is making the situation worse. When a person unnecessarily makes a situation worse for others, I think that's immoral.
    Click to expand...
    :scratch: Ya. Belief does make something an issue of morality or not. Unknowingly making a situation worse is simply a bad outcome, but it's not immoral. Knowingly making a situation worse is immoral. Well, unless the person arrived at his or her ignorance negligently. For example, you gotta do something with all the sick covid people, so rather than consult with experts and try to figure out the least harmful course of action, WHICH IS CAN BE NOT DOING ANYTHING, you shove them in nursing homes. And then covid spreads to other residents and they all die. That would be immoral.

    But, if you really believe wearing masks won't do anything to stop covid, and/or you believe that covid really isn't any worse than the flu, and so you don't wear masks and you don't really do much in the way of social distancing, and then that causes other people to become infected and have a bad outcome, yeah, that's a bad outcome. It's not immoral. And it's not for the lack of intelligence, or effort in trying to figure out what's right. It's belief, and that's predicated on trust in sources.

    I don't think that people who have a different belief about the virus and about masks, have not arrived at their present state from immoral motives. At least not any less moral than you. They've arrived at the place they are, partly because of information bubbles, and temperament, neither of which involve morality.

    So what I'm telling you, you're only going to make enemies by insisting that they're all behaving immorally. I don't know why you're so fixated on it being a moral issue. I mean. Isn't it a relief that they're all not sociopaths?
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Site Supporter

    INGO Supporter

    Latest posts

    Staff online

    Members online

    ... and 74 more.
    Total: 8,002 (members: 124, guests: 7,878)

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    531,105
    Messages
    9,967,283
    Members
    54,986
    Latest member
    benw
    Top Bottom