Tippecanoe Co.'s MRAP

[Kirk Freeman]

San Marcos is pretty cool, and from prior experience I recommend it as a stop of a motorcycle trip in the Hill Country and recommend Mamacita's for dinner.

However, San Marcos is not in Tippecanoe County. The Sheriff can use their flood boats here or other big trucks. This is as lame as the Boone County Boondoogle "delivering medications in the winter" excuse for a toy.

Reaching for rationalizations will not be allowed as stated repeatedly upthread. There is no rationalization for this MRAP.

 

[rhino]

San Marcos is pretty cool, and from prior experience I recommend it as a stop of a motorcycle trip in the Hill Country and recommend Mamacita's for dinner.

However, San Marcos is not in Tippecanoe County. The Sheriff can use their flood boats here or other big trucks. This is as lame as the Boone County Boondoogle "delivering medications in the winter" excuse for a toy.

Reaching for rationalizations will not be allowed as stated repeatedly upthread. There is no rationalization for this MRAP.

You wouldn't mock them if you'd ever had your Oxycodone delivered in the middle of the night by their APC.

 

[cobber]

Sure, I am loaded with duck photos because that is what we face here.

How would the MRAP be useful in preventing crimes committed by the Odom clan? I have been here 20 years. There has been an Odom in the system since 1995. It's like they escaped from an episode of Justified.

MRAPs are not going to help with Odom: The Next Generation.

Our guns are paid by for us. Our MRAP is what we pay for together. I object to the Sheriff's toy as a waste of money--a Bold Boondoggle.

If you are objecting on public $$$ grounds that's one thing.

If you are objecting on grounds of 'it can't happen here because it's never happened here' that's a different argument.

The latter would be an excellent argument for the gun grabbers to raise everytime a 2d A advocate says "Silly Moms, don't you know the violent crime rate is going down?"

Instead of emphasizing the 'danger' of guns, what if they start focusing on how relatively peaceful America is?

I know, I know, mye rights...

What's the annual budget for the TCSDMRAP anyway? Should be a figure on this somewhere?


In the meantime, I'm all for using this at the next PU riot when the women's BB team loses in the finals.

 

[cobber]

San Marcos is pretty cool, and from prior experience I recommend it as a stop of a motorcycle trip in the Hill Country and recommend Mamacita's for dinner.

However, San Marcos is not in Tippecanoe County. The Sheriff can use their flood boats here or other big trucks. This is as lame as the Boone County Boondoogle "delivering medications in the winter" excuse for a toy.

Reaching for rationalizations will not be allowed as stated repeatedly upthread. There is no rationalization for this MRAP.

This appears to be a variation on your 'it can't happen here b/c it's never happened here'.

I wonder if the local version of KF in San Marcos was posting cute pictures of duck criminals on TNGO before the floods.

 

[actaeon277]

Still wondering why an armored humvee wouldn't be better.

 

[Alpo]

I'm still wondering why Homeland Security had to handle the kiddie ride accident at the Lafayette carnival, when Tippecanoe has an MRAP and POLICE that could show up and handle it. So, Tippecanoe not only gets Fed dollars ("our dollars") for an MRAP, but they get real live Feds to handle kiddie ride accidents.

Are you sure you need Police up there?

 

[Denny347]

Still wondering why an armored humvee wouldn't be better.

They are very hard to get. The Gov isn't coming off of them.

 

[Denny347]

I'm still wondering why Homeland Security had to handle the kiddie ride accident at the Lafayette carnival, when Tippecanoe has an MRAP and POLICE that could show up and handle it. So, Tippecanoe not only gets Fed dollars ("our dollars") for an MRAP, but they get real live Feds to handle kiddie ride accidents.

Are you sure you need Police up there?

I missed that article. Are you confusing the U.S. Department of Homeland Security with Indiana Department of Homeland Security IDHS: Home ? That is where the State safety inspectors work from http://www.in.gov/dhs/2374.htm

 

[actaeon277]

They are very hard to get. The Gov isn't coming off of them.

Could that be because they are more useful?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You wouldn't mock them if you'd ever had your Oxycodone delivered in the middle of the night by their APC.

Even if I was all hopped up on the goop like you kids today, I would still mock them.

This appears to be a variation on your 'it can't happen here b/c it's never happened here'.

Not a variation, it is the same argument. It goes directly to risk formulation that I provided.

This is Kirk, you know, the guy that laid out the formula which no one is using because no one wants to show his work.

We were given the fanciful notion that MRAPs are necessary as a mobile shield. I have repeatedly asked for such a scenario in Tippecanoe County. No such example is provided.

Instead I get nonsense about drugs being delivered, or floods, or, my favorite, negotiators.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'm still wondering why Homeland Security had to handle the kiddie ride accident at the Lafayette carnival,

Umm, because they are the state fire marshal.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

A reason for MRAPs: to protect Battle Ground.

Oh, you let Kirk Freeman mock the Sheriff for having an MRAP by saying that Godzilla could attack Battle Ground. But we now face a threat that COMPLETELY justifies the Sheriff of Tippecanoe County having a worthless toy. That's right, septuagenarians from the westside of Indianapolis are invading Battle Ground. A more serious threat than Godzilla by a factor of 10. Right now this threat is laying on Kirk's couch and drinking a Not your Father's Root Beer by Small Town Brewery and watching Hate (Fox) News.

How much more are YOU willing to risk? Obviously we need MRAPs here.

 

[Denny347]

Could that be because they are more useful?

Could be. Could be that they stopped making them a while back and they need all they have to keep the fleet running.

 

[Alpo]

Umm, because they are the state fire marshal.

Well, then they ought to change their name back to Fire Marshals. "Homeland" has always been a bit distasteful for me. Too close to motherland and fatherland. The article I read made no distinction between Fed and State Homeland agents.

Stupid stupid change. Way too brown shirt for basically a firefighter.

 

[vitamink]

I have apparently missed a bunch...a bunch of the same old bs, but i'll address it all again.

Police do not statistically have a very dangerous job. The last year I could find data for was 2013, the list of the 20 most dangerous jobs ranked police as around 15th, right below Groundskeepers. At one of the sites I did find the 2014 police officer total fatalities (133), of those 29 were illness related, 30 were vehicle accidents, there were 49 firearm deaths (2 were accidental). The remainder were for various causes. The "estimate" of officers serving is from NLEOMF figure of “more than 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers" now serving in the United States.

This kind of reinforces Kirks reasoning that the "odds" of needing an armored vehicle in a small city like Lafayette is very remote. While I have never been a "sworn law enforcement officer", I have rode with and assisted some police officers.

The only complaint I have of the police (not the fault of the individual officers) is that in most areas, most of their resources is used to ticket drivers for non dangerous actions which draws revenue for the city/county/state. (No, I have not received a ticket in more than 25 years so that is not the reason). However when a car break in is investigated (which has happened to me), a report is made and no farther action is ever taken (IE: fingerprints, pawn shop information searched etc)., but an officer will sit by the side of the road for an hour waiting to catch a driver 5 or 10 mile over the speed limit.

I recently had a similar argument with some anti-military libertarians who quoted a very similar statistic. The problem is the apples and oranges argument followed by a bull**** conclusion. The argument the guy gave me was that it is more dangerous to mow lawns, drive a truck, or be a crab fisherman than it is to be in the military. Here is where the argument fails. Much like the police, the military have tons of folks who can be considered part of the group that do absolutely nothing dangerous. Those people muddy the water exponentially. A crab fisherman is just that. The guy who weighs the crab at the end of the haul is not a crab fisherman. The guy who fuels the boat is not a crab fisherman. The guy who tells the fisherman where to fish, isn't a crab fisherman... In the military you have doctors, secretaries, scientists, admin, HR, mechanics, lawyers, construction workers, etc etc. All of those support roles benefit those on the ground doing the dangerous work. In indianapolis, less than half of its police force do anything street related...follow that up with an entire jail filled with LEOs who give prisoners food and move them around. Those prisoners were put there by prosecutors who also bear the title law enforcement officer. When they are put on probation a probation officer will contact them...if not you can call down to the jail and another LEO will answer the phone and transfer you to some more LEOS that'll check on the file. I know several truck drivers and a few friends who own their own lawn mowing businesses and yet none of them have been shot at, severely injured, or killed. I have some very dead military and police friends though.

The "danger" argument is a funny one to me as death is the only statistic that makes something dangerous. David Moore was shot in the stomach several times before being shot execution style in the head. Jason fishburn was also shot in the stomach and then execution style in the head. Dave is dead. Jason is alive with severe brain related issues. Jason's situation isn't considered dangerous as he lived. Had David lived, and only been shot in vest several times, that also wouldn't be considered dangerous. I've been told not to run with scissors as it's dangerous, but getting shot at isn't. The amount of times that cops are shot at is incredible. The amount of times they get hit and live is a miracle. The amount of times they die is unfortunate. I'll certainly argue that any of those situations are dangerous.

I love when people use terms like most...most based on what? Each car break in is specific. Were there any printable surfaces? How do you know no further action was taken? (or is ever taken - implying this is always the case). You do realize that detectives do all leg work when it comes to checking pawn shops and following up correct?

I have repeatedly asked for such a scenario in Tippecanoe County. No such example is provided.

Instead I get nonsense about drugs being delivered, or floods, or, my favorite, negotiators.

I have given scenarios, I have given costs and i have shown my work. I have answered all of arguments with facts... and just because YOU call them nonsense doesn't make them less factual.

Your arguments:

Mraps cost taxpayer money!

A: They are free. You have already paid for them. All the parts for them are free. If you blow anything from a bearing to an engine you can get another for free. it's cheaper than buying a bearcat and simultaneously destroying the MRAP.

They cost money to fix and to drive!

A: You will have to pay for gas, but again parts are free. If you buy any other armored vehicle you'll be paying for the vehicle, gas, tires, broken parts etc.

Throw it away, blow it up, take it back etc.

A: If the concern is taxpayer money, you're better off keeping it. If the military takes it back, they will cut it up...IE they will PAY a guy taxpayer money to cut it up. So not only are you out money, you just destroyed a 1/2 million dollar vehicle.

Bad things don't happen in TC!

A: And yet you carry a gun. You're prepared just in case one of the ducks decides to steal your truck. And bad things DO happen in TC. Right after you said that a deputy almost got disarmed, got her ass kicked, and a baddie made off with her rifle... Then barricaded himself, with said rifle, in a house. Any armored vehicle would be a big help in such a scenario. Perhaps if you didn't start the, "deputies don't need shield cars to separate the driver from the prisoners as none have ever had their asses kicked and rifles stolen" campaign they wouldn't need an armored vehicle to go get their **** back and tell the bad guy the aren't allowed to do bad things in TC




Here are the questions you want to ask the PD so that maybe we can move on...

Are you going to paint it, and how much is that going to cost us?

Are you going to put lights on it? Ibis tek police lights are free via DRMO and 24V...get those and save us all some $ on converting lights to run on a 24v system

whats the capacity and how many times have you fueled it up in a month and what is the contract price for fuel?


You will then know how much taxpayer money will be spent.


As someone asked earlier, there is an MRAP on eBay right now if you want one. Someone else asked about the Humvee. The MRAP is made out of armor, the HMMWV is armored-up and leaves a few chinks in the armor. The MRAP holds more people. The HMMWV has an engine from the 70s which isn't very efficient.

 

[cobber]

Even if I was all hopped up on the goop like you kids today, I would still mock them.



Not a variation, it is the same argument. It goes directly to risk formulation that I provided.

This is Kirk, you know, the guy that laid out the formula which no one is using because no one wants to show his work.

We were given the fanciful notion that MRAPs are necessary as a mobile shield. I have repeatedly asked for such a scenario in Tippecanoe County. No such example is provided.

Instead I get nonsense about drugs being delivered, or floods, or, my favorite, negotiators.

The flood scenario was "nonsense"?

Again your argument is 'because it hasn't happened, it won't happen in future'. So what percentage of folks on INGO will ever need to use a gun in self-defense? My risk of ever being attacked is miniscule. So am I ridiculous for carrying, since I haven't yet been attacked?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The flood scenario was "nonsense"?

Yes, it is simply post facto rationalization of a silly decision.

The MRAP is useful as a mobile shield. Oh, wait, that is proven nonsense so now we have negotiation, flooding AND keeping away polar bears.

So what percentage of folks on INGO will ever need to use a gun in self-defense?

Less than 1%, however they pay for their own guns.

If the Sheriff wants to have a bake sale to fund his toy, I won't object. Muffins for MRAPs is fine with me.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Any armored vehicle would be a big help in such a scenario.

So, why wasn't it used?

It's like they are shining us on or something to justify toys.

I have given scenarios,

You have not. I have asked for past incidents of barricaded subjects shooting at the Sheriff.

I now ask yet again. It does not happen here. This is just an inane justification to play with a toy.

Then barricaded himself, with said rifle, in a house.

Oh, he did did he?

Funny how the negotiators simply called him and walked up to the door.

There was so much danger from this that the neighboring Village Pantry and tavern were close . . . no, wait, they were open and doing business.

You will then know how much taxpayer money will be spent.

They are running from me because they do not want that answered.

Even if it is $.01 I still object. We don't need it here. This isn't Indianapolis.

The Tippecanoe County Sheriff needs better training, not toys.

 

[cobber]

The Tippecanoe County Sheriff needs better training, not toys.

Aha, so you are saying if Jenn Thompson had been better trained she would not have been attacked and her cruiser stolen?


And who's this "they" running from you? Does Barry Richards bolt from press conferences when he sees you coming?


Speaking of things we don't need in Tippy, why haven't you gone after SWAT/SRT teams? Since a sergeant walking to the door can defuse any incident, why the need for the paramilitaries?

 

[Woobie]

So what I've learned on INGO today is that, even though this thing came at no charge (except for the initial purchase by .mil, and we've all already taken that hit) except for fuel, it is still a waste of money, because the Tippecanoe never floods, and there will never be an active shooter incident in Lafayette. Learning is fun!






When they start getting charged for this thing, cut it up and sell the scrap, sell the vehicle on eBay, whatever. Until then, all it's hurting is feelings. I'm sure the energy of protesting this waste would be better spent on all the many other programs that are hemorrhage ing money.