Thoughts on your Police Officers

[Sgtusmc]

The test was BS, and is not highly regarded except among the simple minded; the person administering the "experiment" himself said he influenced the direction of the "experiment" since he played the role of an employee of the prison (superintendent). Impartiality is vital in trying to prove something scientifically.

The BBC Prison study in 2002 is far and wide more reliable and accurate. Zimbarado's attempt is laughable and had too many uncontrollable elements to provide anything remotely "scientific".

Regardless of the fact that Dr. Zimbardo failed to use control groups, the experiment proved to be a detriment to all involved in the experiment within only 6 days out of a proposed 2 week length.

Those who were granted authority were embelleshing upon the rules in which to control the prison populace, in any way in order to maintain authority. Meanwhile, the prisoners became more subserviant, selfless and mindless.

 

[qwerty]

Regardless of the fact that Dr. Zimbardo failed to use control groups, the experiment proved to be a detriment to all involved in the experiment within only 6 days out of a proposed 2 week length.

Those who were granted authority were embelleshing upon the rules in which to control the prison populace, in any way in order to maintain authority. Meanwhile, the prisoners became more subserviant, selfless and mindless.

The guards were following his orders under his direction as well as the orders an and direction of his assistant who served conveniently as the warden of the prison The test is a scientific failure without impartiality and the person(s) holding the test effected the results.


Again, the BBC test is far and above more accurate, controlled, and closely monitored.
AS Psychology - Holah.co.uk - Reicher and Haslam (BBC prison study) Study

 

[JTScribe]

"Most of us understand what a very difficult job you have but for me I hate the militarization, no-knock warrants and warrant-less searches but what I hate most is when it does look like a legitimate abusive LEO story the "thin blue line" comes out to defend the individual officer first and foremost."

This.

Personally, I have only once ever had a personal problem with a cop. I was coming home at 3AM at the end of a 18-hour shift. Driving the speed limit down a state road. Tired as hell but still alert - I'd been drinking coffee for the last third of my shift. Pair of headlights come zooming up behind me and land solidly on my tail. I had to shift my rearview mirror to keep the reflection from blinding me. I slowed down, figuring the guy would pass me by since he obviously had places to be. No go. He rides me for 5 minutes like that and finally turns on his lights. So at this point I'm pissed. All I want to do is go home and crawl in bed. I stop, roll down my window and wait.

He comes walking up and says, "What you doing tonight?"

Now at this point it's important to note that I'm in my commercially-logoed work truck. Having one beer and driving it is grounds for termination. Zero tolerance. This is also how I know I was driving the speed limit because the company has GPS'd our vehicles and we get dinged for exceeding the limit. So I say - admittedly, probably nastily - "Just trying to get home without getting tailgated."

To which he asks, "Have you been drinking tonight, sir?"

"No, I haven't been. I've been working since 8 yesterday morning. Heading home to go to sleep."

"I noticed you were weaving a bit, that's why I pulled you over."

Now at this point my BS detector is going off. This was on SR3 north of Rushville, where it's two lanes and extremely narrow. If you go six inches over the white line you're going to end up in a freaking cornfield. To which I say, "I disagree. I felt you were following at an unsafe distance and I was waiting for you to pass."

So, anyhoo, he takes my stuff, goes back to the patrol car, and comes back. No warning, no ticket - obviously, I wasn't doing anything wrong. "Drive safe, sir." I start driving down the road, and - finally! - he passes me.

And the best part was I was so mad it took me over an hour to chill out after I got home to the point that I could fall asleep, heh.

 

[Sgtusmc]

The guards were following his orders under his direction as well as the orders an and direction of his assistant who served conveniently as the warden of the prison The test is a scientific failure without impartiality and the person(s) holding the test effected the results.


Again, the BBC test is far and above more accurate, controlled, and closely monitored.
AS Psychology - Holah.co.uk - Reicher and Haslam (BBC prison study) Study

You're right, the guards were following orders. The Dr. Admits to how enthralled he became in his own role after the fact. The fact of the matter is that the guards fell into their role as authority figures and disregarded humane treatment And lavished in their authoritative roles even AFTER the experiment was stopped.

Regardless of the fact that the whole experiment didn't follow the scientific method, the experiment will maintain footnotes in psychological publications for years to come whether you call it BS or not. What happened happened and you can't explain it away by proxy of another study.

 

[Tims87gn]

I have and always have had respect for LEOs. I have three good friends that are active. Everyone hates that sinking feeling of seeing the lights come on in your rear view mirror, but I deserved whatever ticket I got. Even the one that "clocked" me outside of a construction zone for speeding (I was). When he said I was going 10 mph faster than I was, and I asked to see his radar, he promptly got me out of the car and arrested me. As I looked in his vehicle, guess what... no radar! My lawyer got it ammended and eventually expunged. Never forgot that crooked officer! Truth is, I kinda wish I was a cop. I respect them for putting their butts on the line everyday. They get disrespected and are underpaid, but I am glad they are there. If not for them, think of how violent our society would be.

 

[Sgtusmc]

"Most of us understand what a very difficult job you have but for me I hate the militarization, no-knock warrants and warrant-less searches but what I hate most is when it does look like a legitimate abusive LEO story the "thin blue line" comes out to defend the individual officer first and foremost."

This.

Personally, I have only once ever had a personal problem with a cop. I was coming home at 3AM at the end of a 18-hour shift. Driving the speed limit down a state road. Tired as hell but still alert - I'd been drinking coffee for the last third of my shift. Pair of headlights come zooming up behind me and land solidly on my tail. I had to shift my rearview mirror to keep the reflection from blinding me. I slowed down, figuring the guy would pass me by since he obviously had places to be. No go. He rides me for 5 minutes like that and finally turns on his lights. So at this point I'm pissed. All I want to do is go home and crawl in bed. I stop, roll down my window and wait.

He comes walking up and says, "What you doing tonight?"

Now at this point it's important to note that I'm in my commercially-logoed work truck. Having one beer and driving it is grounds for termination. Zero tolerance. This is also how I know I was driving the speed limit because the company has GPS'd our vehicles and we get dinged for exceeding the limit. So I say - admittedly, probably nastily - "Just trying to get home without getting tailgated."

To which he asks, "Have you been drinking tonight, sir?"

"No, I haven't been. I've been working since 8 yesterday morning. Heading home to go to sleep."

"I noticed you were weaving a bit, that's why I pulled you over."

Now at this point my BS detector is going off. This was on SR3 north of Rushville, where it's two lanes and extremely narrow. If you go six inches over the white line you're going to end up in a freaking cornfield. To which I say, "I disagree. I felt you were following at an unsafe distance and I was waiting for you to pass."

So, anyhoo, he takes my stuff, goes back to the patrol car, and comes back. No warning, no ticket - obviously, I wasn't doing anything wrong. "Drive safe, sir." I start driving down the road, and - finally! - he passes me.

And the best part was I was so mad it took me over an hour to chill out after I got home to the point that I could fall asleep, heh.

Police will create exigent circumstances for themselves to create probable cause, then lie to you and hope that you incriminate yourself somehow. It's just part of the job, have a nice day.

 

[JettaKnight]

My thought is this has nothing to do with guns directly, so it should be in another subforum.

 

[Sgtusmc]

My thought is this has nothing to do with guns directly, so it should be in another subforum.

Probably so. Boltgun is new and probably wanted a lot of users to see his post, so he chose this forum. I don't fault him.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I live in Carmel.

 

[Sgtusmc]

Maybe a new category should be created in this forum called LEO MATTERS AND DISCUSSION. Obviously many people want to discuss it out in the open along with LEO users. Our common ground just happens to be gun ownership. I think it's healthy to be able to debate with law enforcement on line as opposed to on the street where the weight of one's argument falls short once one is handcuffed.

I've seen several LEO's talk about no love for the boys in blue on ingunowners.com discussed on other Police websites. Stuff needs to be out in the open.

 

[Sgtusmc]

Since were here, might as well point you guys to another great psychological experiment. The Stanley Milgram Obediance to authority experiment

Milgram experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If It was your job to push a button to shock someone in the other room for not answering correctly, how far would you go? You're just following orders...just doing your job, right?

"The social psychology of this century reveals a major lesson: often it is not so much the kind of person a man is as the kind of situation in which he finds himself that determines how he will act." –Stanley Milgram, 1974

 

[danielson]

On a truck that old, the speedometer would offer a general idea of how fast you are going that likely would not keep you within a sufficient margin of error to make you safe from tickets. You could do as well or better judging by the tach. Equipment has changed a lot since then--you have to remember that when a 39 year old truck was new, it would have been sold right before the advent of the federally mandated 55mph speed limit when there wasn't so much concern over speed laws which (like most arbitrary laws) were not enforced with near the ruthlessness now standard. Back then, a speedometer with the needle bouncing back and forth over a 10 to 15 mph arc was good enough. Those days are gone. I can't comment on retrofitting newer gauges as I have never attempted to do so.

I agree... But if your company has you driving a truck like this, you need to point this out, and they need to either fix it, or pay your fine (I know you still have points) Also, alot of rigs nowadays have GPS in one way or another, most have speedos on them. The fact is, the truck was speeding, was it the drivers fault??? doesnt matter. The problem can be fixed if the parties involved put forth alittle effort, in stead of doing nothing, then getting pissed at the cops for enforcing laws..

I have had good and bad experiences with Leo. First ticket I ever got was thrown out by the judge in traffic court cause I didn't break the law. But since I was 16 the cop was a total prick. I had a foreign exchange student in my car that he almost drug out and cuffed. Her dad was a cop in the Netherlands and she didn't like his attitude.

I was raised to always give respect to officers weather they deserved it or not. And I do the same to this day. I can say I keep my nose clean. I have whitnessed corruption first hand. Small town bs. I have had awesome encounters with very helpfull officers.

I know that it is a thankless job and underpaid. So even when the local cop gave me my first parking ticket in 24 years of driving yesterday. I smiled and told him to have a nice day. He didn't know that I haven't been able to work in 2 months since being ill and having surgery. That I was parked in front of my first job my first day back and that the $30 ticket is a burden I didn't need. Too bad there were not any signs close to declaring that parking there was not allowed. Was I mad he/: yes. But he was just doing his job and I need to take up the missing sign with the town not him.

For the record all he asked me was was this my vehicle. I said yes he handed me e the citation and asked me to move. Did not ask me about my LtCH and ask if I was carrying, which I was.

So I guess my thoughts to op are if the person you are dealing with is being polite, please return the courtesy.

Seriously man, if theres is a lack of posted signage, fight that.. Take pics of the area. If you were not told you cant park there, they shouldnt be able to cite you.

Hope the job is going well, good luck.

Yeah, most of the time when I heard "this cop did so and so" my first question, and it's information that is typically mysteriously missing, is why they were even talking to an officer in the first place. I've had non-casual encounters (not just out walking around and saying hi) with officers very few times in my life, yet some folks seem to interact with them almost weekly. I'm sure it's just those mean cops harassing the innocent.

I see this alot as well. Alot of people withholding half of the story.

Well, I agree with the pay part but having tried to outrun them in the very early 70's (Yes, dumb and irresponsible) I am so glad to have just gotten my ass whipped over being shot in the face. Night in jail on top of the A$$ whipping mentioned, car impounded, major fines/fees and points on license causing suspension.......Lesson learned.

My buddy in HS was going 110 in a 45 on a backroad, cop pursued him and he tried to run, cop caught him, he pulled over, the cop asked him why he was going so fast, and my buddy said, I was trying to outrun you. The cop told him he respected his honesty, and reminded him that you cant outrun the radio. My friend learned his lesson also, but on a much better note than you. Its a shame the LEO in your situation couldnt have showed the same compassion.

I think the fundamental problem here, lies in the declination of society. People seem to just keep getting worse. Its like every year you can see the morality disappearing. But I think one of the best ways to combat this, is positive reinforcement to those who stick to their morals, and generally try to be good people. Weather it be cops, LGS owners, Citizens carrying firearms who are in a situation where they might have to use them, or otherwise.

Doing the right thing should always be praised at least as much as doing the wrong thing is punished. Failure to do so is creating more and more immoral people, from childhood up.

 

[.452browning]

I am good friends with 3 cops. One a county mountie. Another a county detective. The third is a marion county deputy on warrant team and also works for US marshal service. All three are excellent cops and human beings. We are all friends with one another and always have a good time when we are able to get together.

 

[Dirtebiker]

As far as vehicle break-ins go, what do you expect them to do? I don't think there is anything they can do at all besides document. You are lucky you got a car out there, and it wasn't just a "file a report" by paper or online from the victim. They aren't going to launch an investigation or anything, fingerprint your car, and bring in the CSI team to collect hair samples. All they can do is keep an eye out for what you lost, in case they pull another car over, and the items happen to be in the back seat or something. Please correct me if I am wrong.?

you are wrong!
When my van was broke into, the Greenwood officer who responded fingerprinted (after I asked if he could) my doors and windows.
He was the same officer who printed my neighbors windows when his house was broken into, AND after a couple weeks, found the neighbors t.v. In a local pawn shop, and had the kid down the street arrested. Pretty good job!

That same officer is also the one that quit the force after an altercation at the Applebee's when HE was drunk, pulled his gun out of his ankle holster, and argued with a couple people about HIM leaving his child in his car while he ran into the restaurant.
He was just arrested recently and 11 guns taken away from him for threatening to kill (iirc) members of his family.

 

[mikescetme]

The only time I think of police is when im driving .. They cant stop all crimes but try to catch the bad guys later*** so courts can let them go.

 

[MG77]

I don't like to generalize anyone, cops are no different than construction workers or any other profession, some are low lifes and some are the best folks you will every meet, some strive to be the best and some do the bear minimum.

 

[JettaKnight]

Probably so. Boltgun is new and probably wanted a lot of users to see his post, so he chose this forum. I don't fault him.

Says the newbie...

 

[Sgtusmc]

Says the newbie...

Aren't we spunky.

 

[Manatee]

At my age, it's all good. Plus, a number of LEO's are longtime customers.

 

[eldirector]

Thought I'd post a little +1 for our local PD (Brownsburg)

My wife drove up on a accident scene a few days ago. Pretty bad one (truck upside down, guy hanging out). Folks were stopping to help, and a patrol car rolled up as she idled by. She felt bad about not stopping to help, but she couldn't leave our little girl in the car.

Anyway... she stopped yesterday at a local gas station to get a soda, and it happens to be the hangout for Brownsburg's finest (they have a couple of tables, and the cops do paperwork and such during their breaks). She asked about the accident, and they filled her in one what they could (driving way too fast, under the influence of something, in sad shape, but he will live). They ****-chatted with her for a bit, thanked her for her concern, and said she did good by thinking of our kid (and not getting involved when she didn't need to).

Some folks would have just blown her off, or been "too busy" to talk. Instead, they were (and are) just generally nice guys.

Totally off topic: why is **** (C-H-I-T) on the banned world list? Is there another meaning I'm not aware of? Weird.....