This scares the hell out of me (LEO attitudes toward CCW)

[snake-doctor]

That's true. However, I'm one of those people who usually inspects my car because it's been recommended. I check lights regularly, tires, etc.

90% of these postings I come across though are usually someone saying they were pulled over for speeding.

 

[Lars]

Speeding does NOT automatically make you a Violent offender.

I still believe as a citizen, without granted police powers, your only option is to do whatever the officer in question asks of you. Regardless of how safe or unsafe that is.

Getting shot by Barney Fife because he was convinced I was armed and resisting arrest is NOT high on my list of things to do. Getting tazed for the same reason is only slightly higher.....

I would be absolutely sure if I was treated to an unwarranted search of my vehicle that I had the officers badge number and his supervisors phone number before leaving.

The DC, and Chicago area makes sense, There are NO licensed to carry individuals in those two cities. If you are carrying a weapon in your car in either of those cities you are violating the law.

NYC does issue full Concealed carry weapons permits. They are few and far between but you can be issued one. That might explain some of the hesitation those officers have with people carrying weapons in the car.

I don't agree with the officers attitudes on the forum you posted Melensdad. I think it's completely out of line. Until I have a run in similar to the OP's over there, I don't think there's anything I could do. Calling my local reps. when nothing has happened isn't going to make a difference at all.

All I can do is hope Indiana Law Enforcement Officers are a little less intimidated by firearms in the car since we have something like 1 in 10 or more Hoosiers licensed to carry.

 

[Bill of Rights]

His safety is more important than yours. Oh no, here it comes. How many times have regular law abiding citizens on a traffic stops had to shoot it out with a cop to protect themselves, hmm. Doesn't seem you are in to much danger of having to use your firearm against him. You guys won't like what I have to say about this. I think you need to quit whining and get over it!! If an officer pulls me over and I tell him I have a CCW and he disarms me until the traffic stop is over for "safety" reasons. WHO GIVES A FLYING FLIP!! I will get it back, everything will be alright, life will go on, I'll get a starbucks on the way home. But, But, But the cop should have trusted me...Why...I don't trust you...I don't trust anyone, it's him that is in the worse situation pulling over a car having no idea what he might be getting into, I'll be the bigger man for a few minutes and let him feel safer while he checks things out. Oh no my freedom to carry, for him not to search me whatever whatever whatever, cry me a river. You will be alright. When cops start pulling people over and after finding out they are a CCW holder, and have a clean record, and then turn around and shoot them for no reason, Ok then we might have to start worrying. I think you will be alright except for maybe some finger prints on your weapon. Told you you wouldn't like my take on it.

Out of all that, you got one thing right. I don't like it. I don't because he is a citizen, just like I am. He gets dressed in the morning just like I do. He goes to work, same way I do. There are an awful lot of traffic accidents every day. Some are fatal. Perhaps for officer safety, we should have a one-hour period three or four times a day to allow officers to travel to and from work in total safety, where no other vehicles are on the road?

Disarming innocent people does not protect innocent people. My gun, your gun, the officer's gun, ANY gun is safer in the holster than it is in ANYONE's hand.

He doesn't know what he's getting into with an unknown car? I had to pass a county, a state, AND a federal background check, supply my fingerprints and pay some gov't agency to be allowed to exercise my rights under the Constitution. In short, I had to prove my innocence. So much for that whole "presumed innocent" thing. If I've been pulled over, it's for a minor traffic infraction, not a criminal act.
He sees the gun and asks if I have a LTC, sure, I'll show him that. Hell, even if he doesn't see the gun and asks if I have it, OK, I'll show it, but bottom line, my gun is safer right where it is than taken out of it's holster by anyone. Including me.

As a citizen, the officer has rights. As an agent of government, he has NO rights, but only powers (power of arrest, etc.) If he is acting as a citizen and he wants to disarm me, I will take it the same way I would if you or Sarah Brady or any other elitist wanted to disarm me-badly. If he wants to disarm me as an agent of government, that act is strictly and explicitly forbidden. Government cannot legally do anything not explicitly permitted in the Constitution, and citizens' (once called "freemen's") rights cannot be abridged under the Constitution.

I know many police officers and I respect most of them. As far as I can tell, the feeling is mutual. Those I do not respect are those who bring dishonor to their uniform, their coworkers, and their profession by thinking they are better than the rest of us or are more entitled to special treatment because of the job they do. I've worked 20+ years unarmed in the back of an ambulance; I've been shot at, kicked at, threatened with knives, been puked on, **** on, pissed on and spat on, and y'know what? IT'S PART OF THE F***IN' JOB! If I didn't love my profession, I'd have gotten out long ago. I never asked for special treatment, and I never got it, with the exception of a few businesses that were kind enough to offer me a discount or to deliver a hot meal on occasion as a very nice and much-appreciated gesture of thanks.

You want to plead the officer safety case, go do it somewhere else, because pinning on a tin shield doesn't make them any more or any less deserving of the ability to go home at the end of their shift.

You don't have to like mine either, but the difference is that mine's supported by the Constitution. If you don't like living under that, there are lots of places it doesn't apply, and a lot of places it does that ignore it. All men are created equal.

Yes, I got a little passionate here. Elitist attitudes tend to do that to me. No matter-I'll still close as I always do:

Blessings,
B

 

[snake-doctor]

Speeding does NOT automatically make you a Violent offender.

The term used wasn't 'violent offender', it was 'law abiding citizen'.

To me, someone speeding is not a law abiding citizen.

Then again, I have had surgery and several health issues caused by so called 'law abiding citizens' who wrecked me in my car several times over the years primarily because they were speeding, so it's a sensitive topic for me. I will never equate breaking traffic laws as being law abiding.

 

[bwframe]

Anyone notice that thread had a life of 7 days and was closed?

 

[Bill of Rights]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say, why do people say they are law abiding, then in the same sentence mention getting stopped in a traffic stop? Speeding, not obeying signals, stop lights, etc are all violations of the law. If you're breaking these, you are not law abiding.

My attitude is, if I'm carrying my ccw, I'm obeying the traffic laws in the first place. Now that doesn't guarantee I won't get stopped for something, but why are people who carry speeding in the first place?

That being said, some of those LEO attitudes frighten me as well, but I'm not in the least surprised.

Speeding, etc. violations are called infractions. Technically, breaking those is breaking the law, yes, but the reference usually IMHO means committing an act with intent to in some way harm another person, whether physically, financially, or some other way. Is it right to speed or to disregard your turn signal? No, but answer me this one: If I'm speeding, I'm breaking the law. If I'm driving the speed limit and there's a line of cars behind me that can't pass, I'm breaking the law by "not keeping up with the flow of traffic". Since even by obeying the law I can be breaking the law, at what point do we decide we have too bloody many laws?

Blessings,
B

 

[snake-doctor]

Not once in my life have I ever heard that holding up traffic because you're going the speed limit is an infraction, but oh well!

 

[Episcopus]

You can be charged with reckless driving, a class b misdemeanor for going 35/55, as that is unreasonably slow and impedes the flow of traffic. You can be ticketed for driving unreasonably fast under the conditions, also for doing 35/55 (9-21-5-1). It is nearly, if not completely, impossible to abide by every single traffic law on the books. If an officer wants to make a stop, he will find a way. It doesn't mean that any individual is not "law-abiding" or "otherwise law-abiding."

 

[Episcopus]

Not once in my life have I ever heard that holding up traffic because you're going the speed limit is an infraction, but oh well!

Could be, depending on the circumstances. 9-21-5-7.

 

[snake-doctor]

I've gotten off topic, back to firearms.....

 

[Yamaha]

melensdad, understand that what you're reading is a very very small number of LEO out of something like 700,000 across the county, from reading several of the posts take one thing out of them, that the officers want to go home at night and their safety is the first thing on their mind. It's like the people that ask do I look like a criminal? well yeah you do since criminal look like everybody else.
Just like any other profession there are cops that are legends in their own mind and a**holes. As far as #22 he's no different than any other anti.
The large majority of LEO don't have a problem with ccw.

they all seem to be wearing their arses on their heads


not all states is carrying a privilege, and there is not a problem with an officer disarming you for the process of the stop, but that would be their call. The further abuses of power that they were complaining about....I'm sure the idiots made it worse for themselves during the stop.

Some people just like to blame everyone else for things

 

[NateIU10]

Finally, do NOT volunteer ANY information not legally required or asked of you. EVER! You can see why.

This was the only useful piece of advice in that whole thread.

The DC cop said that he worked a joint-task-force in Prince Georges County MD (same crime type/rate as DC) and had encountered 2 CCWers there (hard to believe because of the restrictions. Have a family member that is on the board to hear appeals after CCWs are turned down, they almost never get issued).

I've had some conversations like this with MPD (Metropolitan Police Department-DC police) officers before, and not all of them feel this way. Some are very anti-civilian gun ownership, some are hoping Heller comes out for us. Just like any other group, police will have different views.

 

[Dogman]

Episcopus, do you know of any court rulings on this subject? If not would you do a little research on this subject since you have easy access to law books. ( in regards to an officer requesting/taking for a short time someones gun that has a LTCH under the premise of officer safety).

 

[epsylum]

Did...did you just Godwin the whole thread?

I am not usually big on pulling the Nazi card, but it is a widely known, fairly recent example of a freely elected government turning on its own population. If you have a better example, I would gladly use that instead.

 

[Episcopus]

Episcopus, do you know of any court rulings on this subject? If not would you do a little research on this subject since you have easy access to law books. ( in regards to an officer requesting/taking for a short time someones gun that has a LTCH under the premise of officer safety).

There is actually little question that the courts allow officers to do this, but that doesn't mean I have to like it, right?

Terry v. Ohio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It started in that case and has gone from there.

 

[jeremy]

WOW, I made it to about 1/2 way though page 3. That is probally one of the scarest things I have ever read.

I wonder how they would feel if when they came to visit me I took there guns when they stopped by for a social visit off duty? For my safety of course.

 

[jeremy]

Besides "IF" I wanted to shoot a LEO for pulling me over. I would wait until he is pulling in behind me, shift my truck into reverse bumper tag him as hard as my diesel will go in reverse. Deploying his airbag and locking his seatbelt in the retracted position. Then calmly walk back to his car and shoot him though the window while he is pinned into position.

So if he has made it to my window I obviously mean him no harm.

 

[rhino]

I think that I should be able to disarm any officer that wants to disarm me. I am not safe if he has a gun and I don't, and why is his safety more important than anyone else's?

ABSOLUTE, 100% agreement with you, sir.

You could not possibly be more correct on this issue.

 

[rhino]

Did...did you just Godwin the whole thread?

"Godwin"??? Is that meme still in existence??!!

Hah! I know (or rather knew) Mike Godwin back in the early 1990s when he coined his phrase on the WeLL.

This internet thingy sure has made the world small.

 

[rhino]

I wish the opinions expressed below were shared by fewer people. I have a (limited) amount of pity for those who choose to believe that they don't need their rights because "they have nothing to hide" and glibly surrender to an illicit, warrentless search, or dismiss grossly bad behavior on the part of the police were "just doing their job."

They just don't get it.

However, my pity for them ends when I realize they vote and they're just as big a problem as those who actively seek to continue stealing our individual liberties and freedoms.

His safety is more important than yours. Oh no, here it comes. How many times have regular law abiding citizens on a traffic stops had to shoot it out with a cop to protect themselves, hmm. Doesn't seem you are in to much danger of having to use your firearm against him. You guys won't like what I have to say about this. I think you need to quit whining and get over it!! If an officer pulls me over and I tell him I have a CCW and he disarms me until the traffic stop is over for "safety" reasons. WHO GIVES A FLYING FLIP!! I will get it back, everything will be alright, life will go on, I'll get a starbucks on the way home. But, But, But the cop should have trusted me...Why...I don't trust you...I don't trust anyone, it's him that is in the worse situation pulling over a car having no idea what he might be getting into, I'll be the bigger man for a few minutes and let him feel safer while he checks things out. Oh no my freedom to carry, for him not to search me whatever whatever whatever, cry me a river. You will be alright. When cops start pulling people over and after finding out they are a CCW holder, and have a clean record, and then turn around and shoot them for no reason, Ok then we might have to start worrying. I think you will be alright except for maybe some finger prints on your weapon. Told you you wouldn't like my take on it.