This scares the hell out of me (LEO attitudes toward CCW)

[Glock Lover]

Of all the times I have gotten pulled over I have never been in fear of getting raped. (Although I did get raped at the gas pump today...sorry for the side note). And Next time a cop pulls you over, you let him know you aren't sure if he's a real cop so you are going to keep your gun. Please!
My point is, they have a lot more to worry about than you do with traffic stops, put yourself in their shoes for a second. I'm saying it's a little thing out of respect for them and their job for me to allow them to feel safe for a couple of minutes. End of story, I guess you just have to be there to understand.

 

[hunter480]

melensdad, understand that what you're reading is a very very small number of LEO out of something like 700,000 across the county, from reading several of the posts take one thing out of them, that the officers want to go home at night and their safety is the first thing on their mind. It's like the people that ask do I look like a criminal? well yeah you do since criminal look like everybody else.
Just like any other profession there are cops that are legends in their own mind and a**holes. As far as #22 he's no different than any other anti.
The large majority of LEO don't have a problem with ccw.

We HOPE these LEO`s are a minority, right?

As for wanting to go home at night, we all hope for that very same thing. If you`re infering that their desire to get home safely somehow trumps our Second Amendment rights......BRRRRRRRRRRR.

You are the weakest link............. goodbye.

 

[epsylum]

I think you need to quit whining and get over it!! If an officer pulls me over and I tell him I have a CCW and he disarms me until the traffic stop is over for "safety" reasons. WHO GIVES A FLYING FLIP!! I will get it back, everything will be alright, life will go on, I'll get a starbucks on the way home.

You ASSUME you will get it back. Remember cops are people too and are capable of evil themselves. I don't want to disarm myself because Joe Schmoe doesn't like it, same goes for cops. If I GIVE them a reason (like being arrested), then okay. But just because he wants to ticket me for going 5 over or forgetting a turn signal, no thanks. Who's to say they won't find some BS reason to confiscate your gun? I mean crap like that happens, because cops are people too.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Glock Lover so you have no problem being asked to step out of your car and then being thrown to the ground or over the hood of your car while the nice LEO disarms you for your safety? It wouldn't alarm for wife and kids in the car to see this either. Then to compound the issue the inexperienced (with your make model of gun) LEO fumbles around with your gun trying to figure out how to clear it. I guess LEOs should be able to do whatever they want as long as it makes them feel safe huh?
I think the point here is we should not be treated like criminals because we had a burned out tail lamp. I'll state again that I will not volunteer the fact I am carrying.

 

[Glock Lover]

You are right!! And Maybe......the cop is an alien disguising himself as a cop. And he is looking for innocent CCW people from whom he can take their weapons, and once they are disarmed he will make them into his eternal minions who will serve him at his space castle on Mars (as the government is wasting billions of dollars looking for life on Mars...sorry again for the side note).
Sorry, just don't buy it. I think it's more a pride thing, and big boys can get over it and appreciate cops are trying to do what works best.
I am going to keep doing it the same way. And I'm not going to convince you it's ok, which is fine. It has been fun discussing it.
-Live long and CCW-

 

[Glock Lover]

Glock Lover so you have no problem being asked to step out of your car and then being thrown to the ground or over the hood of your car while the nice LEO disarms you for your safety? It wouldn't alarm for wife and kids in the car to see this either. Then to compound the issue the inexperienced (with your make model of gun) LEO fumbles around with your gun trying to figure out how to clear it. I guess LEOs should be able to do whatever they want as long as it makes them feel safe huh?
I think the point here is we should not be treated like criminals because we had a burned out tail lamp. I'll state again that I will not volunteer the fact I am carrying.

I am speaking of disarming not getting thrown on the hood etc etc etc. DUH!!
But what are you going to do if you do get thrown on the hood, hopefully not shoot the cop. You will file a complaint with the city etc etc etc. No body wants to be treated like a criminal but the fact is you will be by people who should know better. But...get over it. That's life...people will treat you how you don't want to be treated. So I know what we'll do...we won't cooperate with anyone, whether they are good or bad...hate them all. Yeah...this will solve everything!!! muh ha hahaha

 

[Dogman]

How about this, the LEO finds out that you have a gun with you, you show him your LTCH, you end up talking guns and you both make a new friend. You invite him to join INGunOwners.com

 

[epsylum]

You are right!! And Maybe......the cop is an alien disguising himself as a cop. And he is looking for innocent CCW people from whom he can take their weapons, and once they are disarmed he will make them into his eternal minions who will serve him at his space castle on Mars (as the government is wasting billions of dollars looking for life on Mars...sorry again for the side note).
Sorry, just don't buy it. I think it's more a pride thing, and big boys can get over it and appreciate cops are trying to do what works best.
I am going to keep doing it the same way. And I'm not going to convince you it's ok, which is fine. It has been fun discussing it.
-Live long and CCW-

I guess "right" = "pride" to you.

Crap happens. The things we have mentioned aren't some wild ass made up stories. Things like this HAVE happened. Cops have NDs and ADs (I have seen the bullet holes to prove it). So how is someone disarming you and attempting to unload an unfamiliar firearm on the side of the road for little to no reason safer for you or the cop?

Your attitude reminds me of the last anti I had a conversation with. I brought up the whole "what if some guy decides to attack and rape/murder you". (Which in itself is a pretty long shot, but it DOES happen and is a viable reason to carry IMO). Her answer? "I guess it is just my time." She would rather be raped and murdered than to even think about defending herself. Just "oh well, if it happens, it happens". Eff that!

What if they want to search your car "for their safety". What about searching your house "for their safety". Etc. This is a slippery slope that I don't want to go down. Damn near any intrusion on our rights could be sold as "for their safety".

 

[Glock Lover]

How about this, the LEO finds out that you have a gun with you, you show him your LTCH, you end up talking guns and you both make a new friend. You invite him to join INGunOwners.com

SWEET!!

 

[Fenway]

You invite him to join INGunOwners.com

 

[Glock Lover]

I guess "right" = "pride" to you.

Crap happens. The things we have mentioned aren't some wild ass made up stories. Things like this HAVE happened. Cops have NDs and ADs (I have seen the bullet holes to prove it). So how is someone disarming you and attempting to unload an unfamiliar firearm on the side of the road for little to no reason safer for you or the cop?

Your attitude reminds me of the last anti I had a conversation with. I brought up the whole "what if some guy decides to attack and rape/murder you". (Which in itself is a pretty long shot, but it DOES happen and is a viable reason to carry IMO). Her answer? "I guess it is just my time." She would rather be raped and murdered than to even think about defending herself. Just "oh well, if it happens, it happens". Eff that!

What if they want to search your car "for their safety". What about searching your house "for their safety". Etc. This is a slippery slope that I don't want to go down. Damn near any intrusion on our rights could be sold as "for their safety".

Search my house, search my car...got nothing to hide. In fact I'll put the wire tap in for BIG BROTHER and he can listen to all my boring conversations. I guess all I am asking is that you realize that cops aren't perfect (this I know), some are mean, many are ugly, some are dirty. And CCW carriers: some are mean, many are ugly, and some are dirty. If you want the cop to give you the benefit of the doubt, why don't you give them the benefit of the doubt. I have searched the net over and cannot find ONE instance of a cop walking up to your window and shooting you. So you shouldn't have to worry about a shoot out with a cop. But I have and continue to hear of many cops walking up to the window and being shot. Hmm...which side should we give the benefit of the doubt to, and just cooperate. You think your rights were violated...SUE the agency, sue the crap out of the agency. Lots of lawyers out there that would take that case for free. Have a nice night. I am done stating my case on this thread. Later...out

 

[BloodEclipse]

I am speaking of disarming not getting thrown on the hood etc etc etc. DUH!!

What is the difference between this and being in a store or anywhere else and a LEO coming up and disarming you such as what happened at the Old Country Buffett in PA?

Can any LEO's here show me some department policy that allows for disarming a citizen who is legally carrying during a routine traffic stop?

Glock Lover what I'm saying is why should I being treated differently then the average citizen who may not be exercising thier right to carry? I would think that if I out of courtesy informed the LEO I was carrying and had a LTCH that I should be viewed as a honest and safe individual. I wasn't trying to hide it. Why should I be subjected to a heightened level of scrutiny and then forced to be disarmed?

 

[epsylum]

And lots gas station attendants get shot as well, but I am willing to bet you would be on here throwing a fit if you were forced (to be a fair analogy it would have to be by force of law, not store policy) and patted down to enter a 7-11. Bottom line is that it is a dangerous job. Fire fighters run into burning building, correctional officers get attacked by inmates, soldiers and LEOs run the risk of being shot at. I should't have to disarm myself to make them feel "safe". Don't like it? Don't be a cop.

As for the "I have nothing to hide" bit. Wow. You just don't get it. It has nothing to do with "hiding" something, it has to do with defining a boundry between the citizenry and its government. "Give them an inch and they will want a mile" definitely applies. Then again the Jew thought just like that in the 1930s.

 

[Scutter01]

Then again the Jew thought just like that in the 1930s.

Did...did you just Godwin the whole thread?

 

[Episcopus]

Did...did you just Godwin the whole thread?

Sure enough.

Glock Lover, if the fear is being shot when walking up to a car window, how does asking me to disarm after he reaches the window make the officer any safer? If I were the shootin' type, I would have done it by then and because I didn't do it by then, I must not be the shootin' type, right? Also, you might not fear getting raped, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I would bet you also don't fear a home invasion on a daily basis, or a fire, or a flat tire, or someone coming into a bathroom behind you and knocking you out with a tire iron. Any of those things could happen, and they happen to people every day, people who don't fear them before they happen.

I would be willing to wager that it is at least as common for a fake police officer to pull someone over as it is for a cop to get shot at during a routine traffic stop.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I just did a quick google search and found this article
2007 Attorney General Summary on Concealed Carry | Buckeye Firearms Association

"License holders have not become cowboys or vigilantes. And no police have been shot by license holders during traffic stops."

I guessing I would find this is the case in most states as well. So where is the need to disarm and what facts back up the idea that disarming makes things safer?

 

[bigcraig]

WOW

I cannot believe what I am reading from some of the folks on this site.

Any officer that disarms a person with a LTC during a normal traffic stop should find a new line of work.

 

[snake-doctor]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say, why do people say they are law abiding, then in the same sentence mention getting stopped in a traffic stop? Speeding, not obeying signals, stop lights, etc are all violations of the law. If you're breaking these, you are not law abiding.

My attitude is, if I'm carrying my ccw, I'm obeying the traffic laws in the first place. Now that doesn't guarantee I won't get stopped for something, but why are people who carry speeding in the first place?

That being said, some of those LEO attitudes frighten me as well, but I'm not in the least surprised.

 

[TomN]

You've never been pulled over because your headlight went out and you didn't realize it? Happened to me and I had no clue why I was getting pulled over. Stuff happens.

 

[Scutter01]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say, why do people say they are law abiding, then in the same sentence mention getting stopped in a traffic stop? Speeding, not obeying signals, stop lights, etc are all violations of the law. If you're breaking these, you are not law abiding.

Because it's impossible to get out of bed without breaking at least half a dozen laws. Even staying IN bed, you're probably guilty of loitering. If a LEO wants to pull you over, you're getting pulled over, regardless of whether or not you were speeding. Many of them have said on many occasions that they only need to follow you for a few hundred yards before you violate some statute.