The 'won't back down' situation

[Richard]

Because, in my original post, I said not to tell an officer that you were approached in a "non threatening manner" if you wanted to claim self defense and you disagreed with that statement.

I'll agree with this statement.

However a victim's careless description after the fact does not "unjustify" a justified use of force in a self-defense scenario, but I most certainly do agree that it could make things more difficult for the victim during the investigation.

 

[Alerion]

To back that up and I would bet Askerion could verify, you are authorized to use the same force to defend your pistol's security just as an officer is, right? Going for an officer's pistol will get you shot.

What is the 21 foot rule for? When you are within 21 feet of me, you are considered UNIVERALLY a threat to my well being PERIOD. If you are arguing and yelling FIRST then guess what?

Actually, when I retired, I had to take a class on what I wasn't allowed to do with my firearm as a private citizen that I could as a police officer. And I'm not going to go into any of them here. However, if someone is trying to take your pistol, and are a threat to you, then you are justified in defending yourself with deadly force. (BTW, an example where shooting someone isn't justified in this case...I have taken a gun away from a potential suicide...as a private citizen no less!)

So what is this 21 foot rule you're quoting?

 

[JosephR]

Isn't it general knowledge that if you are to draw to stop an attacker, the last point to safely do it is when they are 21 feet from you? This is because anything closer and chances are they will close the distance before you think to unholster, draw, aim and fire and potentially kill or disarm you.

I may be mixing a few ideas here but you get what I mean. This is why a lot of people train to shoot at 21 feet or 7 yards...

 

[Alerion]

Isn't it general knowledge that if you are to draw to stop an attacker, the last point to safely do it is when they are 21 feet from you? This is because anything closer and chances are they will close the distance before you think to unholster, draw, aim and fire and potentially kill or disarm you.

I may be mixing a few ideas here but you get what I mean. This is why a lot of people train to shoot at 21 feet or 7 yards...

The only thing I ever heard about 21 feet was that something on the order of 95% of pistol shootings occur withing that distance. Which makes sense if you think about it. Most indoor shootings are restricted by the size of the room and many outdoor shootings occur during arguements, fights, etc. which are already up close and personal.

 

[mettle]

These threads always disintegrate... I'm not even interested in responding while the catfight is on...

 

[JosephR]

For more than 20 years now, a concept called the 21-Foot Rule has been a core component in training officers to defend themselves against edged weapons.

Originating from research by Salt Lake City trainer Dennis Tueller and popularized by the Street Survival Seminar and the seminal instructional video "Surviving Edged Weapons," the "rule" states that in the time it takes the average officer to recognize a threat, draw his sidearm and fire 2 rounds at center mass, an average subject charging at the officer with a knife or other cutting or stabbing weapon can cover a distance of 21 feet.

But the article went on to state this is not that great to stick to. Maybe extending the range would be best because at 21 feet, it ends in a tie with a stabbing and a shooting. Better to start to draw and shoot at 40 and have the guy drop 20 feet in front of you?

 

[JosephR]

I wonder why they deteriorate? Maybe a lack of reading? There's no fighting going on right now Mettle.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Enemy has assaulted you, whether verbally, getting in your face in a threatening way, whatever. Not battery, but assault.

Can someone clarify this for me ?

I think of assault as being talked to or cussed ,

I think of battery as having been touched . Am I wrong ?

 

[JosephR]

No, you're right and you know it. Keep reading though and don't ignore the part I've stressed to you OVER AND OVER about IMMINENT danger of the situation escalating. Escalating does not mean "meaner" cussing but more like physical violence.

 

[JosephR]

Please see below

Probably shouldn't have used immediate to describe that it's not coming and imminent as "upon him" but that's how it worked.

Either way, "imminent" means it's about to break and turn ugly.

2ADM- What am I in danger of? I don't know. I don't want to look back on it in the hospital and wonder what signs I did or didn't see that a knife was coming or that there was a gun in his hand that I didn't see.

once again, DISCUSS WHAT THE OP HAS BROUGHT IN FRONT OF YOU OR GO AWAY PLEASE. The OP said you are in imminent danger- he simply decided not to say "knife" or "syringe" or "greased pole" or "gun" for the sake of simplicity but he did say you were in danger. What part of "you are in imminent danger" do you not get?

Are you telling me that if I put you in imminent danger you'd stop to ask stupid questions that noone will answer for you?

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

For the sake of the question, let's say that the threat was not immediate but imminent, standing 5+ feet away and you draw, not to fire but to diffuse.

This is the part I get stuck on , so far the BG hasn't done anything but close the distance , are we to ASSUME that he's said something to make you feel threatened . ?

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

You typed faster than me so disregard last post .

 

[JosephR]

Ok so what now?

thanks for wasting my 1000th post

RIF

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

What now ? Sorry for missing that part and being a prick about it . I was getting stuck on people shooting an unarmed man , now I see .

Hell you didn't waist it ! What else ya wanna argue about ?

 

[JosephR]

How do I manage to attract all of the people who read only certain parts? No offense but it's true!

 

[jmiller676]

This proves how INGO members always learn to work things out...after10 pages of posts.

 

[JosephR]

No, it proves INGO needs a literacy test before members can start replying to the "wrong" thread.

No offense 2ADM- others have been worse lately.

I'm looking at 3 pages. I don't know what you're counting

 

[jmiller676]

lol ok 10 pages 3 pages...I'm only a freshman in college jeesh

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

This proves how INGO members always learn to work things out...after10 pages of posts.

Which I hope proves in some cases as long as you keep talking , the bullets wont start flying .

 

[jmiller676]