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The Walking Dead.
- Thread starter Andy219
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So is Gabriel the Traitor explained in the comic books or is he just having a nervous breakdown?
On The talking Dead, they are talking about how gruesome Noah's death scene was. Eugene said he and some of the other production people had to turn away from what was happening. I think that was one of the most traumatic and bloody episode I've seen. Have to wonder what they have planned for the season finale!
CathyInBlue
Grandmaster
Ah! Talking Dead didn't use any of my #DangerousWorkSite tweets.
I think they showed the gruesome death of Aiden earlier in the ep to prepare the audience for Noah getting ate.
They were talking on Talking Dead about why Eugene didn't just cap Nicholas. I'm thinking, they come home with none of the Alexandrians left alive and just themselves-1, and see how quickly the Alexandrians lose their fax.
I think they showed the gruesome death of Aiden earlier in the ep to prepare the audience for Noah getting ate.
They were talking on Talking Dead about why Eugene didn't just cap Nicholas. I'm thinking, they come home with none of the Alexandrians left alive and just themselves-1, and see how quickly the Alexandrians lose their fax.
CathyInBlue
Grandmaster
I wonder if what was causing Gabriel's crisis of faith at the beginning of the episode was the fact that he'd already decided in his heart to sell Rick and the group out to Deanna at the end of the episode.
Wild Deuce
Master
- Dec 2, 2009
- 4,947
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He said something to the effect of... "we left them. That's who we are."
He was referring to the people they lost before Ricks group got there.
He was basically explaining to Aiden, 'you're on your own now. I'm leaving you behind' hoping he'd understand. Then later construction dude said, "we have a system" meaning, they don't risk themselves to save others.
He was referring to the people they lost before Ricks group got there.
He was basically explaining to Aiden, 'you're on your own now. I'm leaving you behind' hoping he'd understand. Then later construction dude said, "we have a system" meaning, they don't risk themselves to save others.
Wild Deuce
Master
- Dec 2, 2009
- 4,947
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wow.
Preacher doesn't want Rick's group there, because they are witnesses to his cowardice.
The Alexandria group just abandons people.
No wonder that woman is cozying up to Rick. She's hoping he'll take her husband out.
I'd have a hard time bringing that 1 Alexandrian back, after his cowardice.
Preacher doesn't want Rick's group there, because they are witnesses to his cowardice.
The Alexandria group just abandons people.
No wonder that woman is cozying up to Rick. She's hoping he'll take her husband out.
I'd have a hard time bringing that 1 Alexandrian back, after his cowardice.
To All,
I am left with a theory of why the Alexandrians haven't bonded. They haven't needed to! They have always had a safe place with food and warmth to run home to. If the s**t hits the fan outside, just cover your own butt and run to safety, come back and fight tomorrow. IF someone is in trouble, why would "I" want to stick my neck out for them? "I" don't want to die! "I" will just go home to my little hobbit hole and wait for danger to pass. I am reminded of a little song about Brave Sir Robin: https://youtu.be/BZwuTo7zKM8
I am also left with the theory of very poor leadership. Perhaps Aiden would have been good if he were a bit older and more mature, but he didn't have the character to risk himself for others. At the beginning it said he was in ROTC or some such officers training, but when you're in the military there is an entire chain of command to back you up AND fry your butt if you show cowardice in combat! Had he spent time in combat like Abraham his fear would have been forced from him, both by peer pressure and fear of reprimand. When the world fell apart he had no such chain and was left to his own devices. Regrettably for who knows how many he wasn't strong enough to stand on his own and give orders.
I still give Tobin credit, perhaps because he is older and more old school on character. He knows he was wrong and spoke well of Abraham for taking over and not letting someone die as he would have. I guess that's the point - if you know your boss has your back you give more of yourself. Everyone on that excursion knows Abraham will never leave them to die if he can help it, and even if it is a lost cause Abraham might still try. The strength of Abraham is command authority in combat as a sergeant.
I believe Actaeon nailed the Gabriel issue. He is guilt ridden over what happened to his old flock and wants things "the way they were." Alexandria is as close to the old normal as anyone could ever get, so he wants to start fresh and if that means throwing Ricks group under the bus so be it. Ricks group knows what he did and every time he sees them it is a reminder of his guilt. I see the timing of his speech with Deanna as a potential problem with her son dying the same day. That will certainly put doubt in her mind about whatever Glen and Eugene say.
I am guessing that without an answer to my previous question Father Gabriel didn't do anything like this in the comics?
There will be a real problem with the doctor - because he IS a doctor! You can't just kill him or punish him too much, not in zombieland! Who do you go to without him if an appendix needs removed? Eugene? Glen? Reg? Reg is probably nearly as educated but in a totally different field. When there are thousands of doctors in the state yeah, sure, you can pitch one or two or even twenty to the wind. BUT when he could be the only real medical expert within 500 miles? That means he has some degree of immunity from certain punishments, at least for some crimes. If we want to be realistically pragmatic the doctor is possibly their most valuable asset, and if he slaps around his wife a bit - "oh well..." I am not trying to be crass or unsympathetic but... Maybe they could remove the wife and the kids from him. He would have to cross a pretty big line when every day minor injuries can become lethal without proper medical treatment. Who will treat Tara's head wound next time? It is a real issue that would need to be discussed before action is taken. As much as I like the idea of "look at the flowers, Doc" I am also a realist.
Eugene has reminded me of a character from Game of Thrones - Samwell Tarley. Sam is basically a coward, no hero by any stretch of the imagination. Where Samwell's great strength comes from is that he will ignore any danger to save his friends! Eugene seems to be the same way. Abraham and Rosita have never needed saving, so Eugene has never stepped forward. In this episode Tara was 100% helpless! He had to do something and he did. He would have probably run if it were just him but when Tara, his only friend, is in need he steps up. I don't mind that so much. Not like Aiden and Nicholas who have just left people to die.
I found it to be a good episode leading up to some real issues.
Regards,
Doug
I am left with a theory of why the Alexandrians haven't bonded. They haven't needed to! They have always had a safe place with food and warmth to run home to. If the s**t hits the fan outside, just cover your own butt and run to safety, come back and fight tomorrow. IF someone is in trouble, why would "I" want to stick my neck out for them? "I" don't want to die! "I" will just go home to my little hobbit hole and wait for danger to pass. I am reminded of a little song about Brave Sir Robin: https://youtu.be/BZwuTo7zKM8
I am also left with the theory of very poor leadership. Perhaps Aiden would have been good if he were a bit older and more mature, but he didn't have the character to risk himself for others. At the beginning it said he was in ROTC or some such officers training, but when you're in the military there is an entire chain of command to back you up AND fry your butt if you show cowardice in combat! Had he spent time in combat like Abraham his fear would have been forced from him, both by peer pressure and fear of reprimand. When the world fell apart he had no such chain and was left to his own devices. Regrettably for who knows how many he wasn't strong enough to stand on his own and give orders.
I still give Tobin credit, perhaps because he is older and more old school on character. He knows he was wrong and spoke well of Abraham for taking over and not letting someone die as he would have. I guess that's the point - if you know your boss has your back you give more of yourself. Everyone on that excursion knows Abraham will never leave them to die if he can help it, and even if it is a lost cause Abraham might still try. The strength of Abraham is command authority in combat as a sergeant.
I believe Actaeon nailed the Gabriel issue. He is guilt ridden over what happened to his old flock and wants things "the way they were." Alexandria is as close to the old normal as anyone could ever get, so he wants to start fresh and if that means throwing Ricks group under the bus so be it. Ricks group knows what he did and every time he sees them it is a reminder of his guilt. I see the timing of his speech with Deanna as a potential problem with her son dying the same day. That will certainly put doubt in her mind about whatever Glen and Eugene say.
I am guessing that without an answer to my previous question Father Gabriel didn't do anything like this in the comics?
There will be a real problem with the doctor - because he IS a doctor! You can't just kill him or punish him too much, not in zombieland! Who do you go to without him if an appendix needs removed? Eugene? Glen? Reg? Reg is probably nearly as educated but in a totally different field. When there are thousands of doctors in the state yeah, sure, you can pitch one or two or even twenty to the wind. BUT when he could be the only real medical expert within 500 miles? That means he has some degree of immunity from certain punishments, at least for some crimes. If we want to be realistically pragmatic the doctor is possibly their most valuable asset, and if he slaps around his wife a bit - "oh well..." I am not trying to be crass or unsympathetic but... Maybe they could remove the wife and the kids from him. He would have to cross a pretty big line when every day minor injuries can become lethal without proper medical treatment. Who will treat Tara's head wound next time? It is a real issue that would need to be discussed before action is taken. As much as I like the idea of "look at the flowers, Doc" I am also a realist.
Eugene has reminded me of a character from Game of Thrones - Samwell Tarley. Sam is basically a coward, no hero by any stretch of the imagination. Where Samwell's great strength comes from is that he will ignore any danger to save his friends! Eugene seems to be the same way. Abraham and Rosita have never needed saving, so Eugene has never stepped forward. In this episode Tara was 100% helpless! He had to do something and he did. He would have probably run if it were just him but when Tara, his only friend, is in need he steps up. I don't mind that so much. Not like Aiden and Nicholas who have just left people to die.
I found it to be a good episode leading up to some real issues.
Regards,
Doug
No, he did exactly the same thing in the comics. He didn't dime them out over being guilt ridden, he dimed them out because he believed what he was saying. Looking at it from his perspective, it's hard to argue with his assessment.
Sure, they saved him, but then they essentially took him hostage, took over...destroyed his church, and forced him to go to the food bank. The food bank had to be EXTREMELY traumatic for him, and is something not even the other survivors have had to deal with (at least we havent seen it). Gabriel would have known who every single zombie in that place was.... they were his friends, and here's the group forcing him to confront them. That has to play havoc on the mind.
Then you have the guys from Terminus, who from what we know explained that they were looking for revenge because the group destroyed their home, and killed all their friends. It's debateable whether or not the Gabriel knew exactly what happened, or how bad the Terminus people were, because the group NEVER tells people what they have done, in detail, but rather say, "we did what we had to do to survive." And of course Gabriel sees the group lay out an EPIC hack, stomp, and bash on the Terminus group in the church while they were pleading for their lives....keeping in mind that they hadn't hurt anyone else (that Gabriel had seen).
Then you have Rick cold-cocking Aaron, who we all know is a good guy.
Finally, the group does intend to destroy their "paradise." The Alexandians have lived in relative safety for years, so they think their system works. They're wrong, but it would be hard to convince them of otherwise after surviving, in a civilized way, that long. And no one can argue that the group, when push comes to shove, would take their safety above anyone elses.
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