The Walking Dead.

[Libertarian01]

No, he did exactly the same thing in the comics. He didn't dime them out over being guilt ridden, he dimed them out because he believed what he was saying. Looking at it from his perspective, it's hard to argue with his assessment.
Sure, they saved him, but then they essentially took him hostage, took over...destroyed his church, and forced him to go to the food bank. The food bank had to be EXTREMELY traumatic for him, and is something not even the other survivors have had to deal with (at least we havent seen it). Gabriel would have known who every single zombie in that place was.... they were his friends, and here's the group forcing him to confront them. That has to play havoc on the mind.
Then you have the guys from Terminus, who from what we know explained that they were looking for revenge because the group destroyed their home, and killed all their friends. It's debateable whether or not the Gabriel knew exactly what happened, or how bad the Terminus people were, because the group NEVER tells people what they have done, in detail, but rather say, "we did what we had to do to survive." And of course Gabriel sees the group lay out an EPIC hack, stomp, and bash on the Terminus group in the church while they were pleading for their lives....keeping in mind that they hadn't hurt anyone else (that Gabriel had seen).
Then you have Rick cold-cocking Aaron, who we all know is a good guy.
Finally, the group does intend to destroy their "paradise." The Alexandians have lived in relative safety for years, so they think their system works. They're wrong, but it would be hard to convince them of otherwise after surviving, in a civilized way, that long. And no one can argue that the group, when push comes to shove, would take their safety above anyone elses.

Kutnupe,

Thanks, that does make sense.

The only argument I would have counter to it is that Father Gabriel has traveled with them for several weeks now, so he also "knows" who they are as people. Ricks group is capable of some serious violence but only in self defense.

Part of the problem is we, as TV watchers or CB readers, don't know what is said behind the scenes which would happen. Traveling down the road people would talk about what the Terminus folks did, if nothing else how desperate some folks have become to survive. Of course it can be argued that no one talks about what went on there at all, so we are left in the dark about what a new member of the group would find out or how much.

Regarding the topic of whether the Alexandrians system is "weak" or not, it is debatable. Their system has worked, so it is good. The problem is they have never been forced to deal with the extreme depravity that exists in the world outside their walls. Why? It could be argued "because their system works!" Through the very good work of Aaron and Eric those who have come to Alexandria have been good people because they were chosen by the recruiters. The recruiters would have let the Claimers and others like them walk on by without ever meeting. The problem is that it is only by luck that someone hasn't stumbled upon the Alexandrians, but of course luck does go a long way. Imagine if the world fell apart and search parties went out. The Washington DC combined with Alexandria populations are about the same as Indianapolis. How many years could groups spend searching Indianapolis without ever having stumbled upon some small, isolated little neighborhood?

The problem for all of us is that eventually our luck runs out, and that is where preparation, planning and force of will make the difference. The Alexandrians have made no plans, taken no steps, hardened no hearts to face the eventual reality of being forced to deal with people that have not been filtered by the recruiters! They have been living in their own private little Utopia without facing the harsh brutality of the world gone wrong.

It will be fun seeing how everything plays out over the next two (2) episodes! Do we wind up with Admiral Adama and President Roslin sharing power, or do we wind up with a Ricktatorship?

Doug

 

[shootersix]

so who watched talking dead?...did you see the preview for next week? idw to spoil it, so i wont talk about it other than DAMN SASHA!

and the tweet "everybody ate chris" i lol'd

 

[rhino]

We can't call Eugene a coward anymore. No, it has nothing to do with his heroics in this episode. It's that Nicholas and Gabriel are genuine cowards in the most negative sense of the word. Eugene is just scared.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm surprised Glen let Nicholas live. I think we all know what Rick, Dirty D, Abe, or Carol would have done. I'm interested to see what will become of him. Surely the group is going that blame him for Noah's death, so that doesn't bode well for his safety. Now, will the leader chick turn him out? Makes you wonder.

 

[1911ly]

I'm surprised Glen let Nicholas live. I think we all know what Rick, Dirty D, Abe, or Carol would have done. I'm interested to see what will become of him. Surely the group is going that blame him for Noah's death, so that doesn't bode well for his safety. Now, will the leader chick turn him out? Makes you wonder.

You can bet Nicholas is going to blame Noah and Aiden's death on the "group". Craps going to hit the fan when they find out Aiden is dead.

 

[findingZzero]

OOPS! I've been scooped.
Black people must taste better than white people. Except for Michone......
I don't get it. Are zombies racist? Or is it the writers.....?
Everybody hates Chris. Even zombies.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You can bet Nicholas is going to blame Noah and Aiden's death on the "group". Craps going to hit the fan when they find out Aiden is dead.

Yeah, I figured. On one hand, the only reason I thought Glen let him live was to at least bring back one of "their" people, so nobody thought something hinke was going on... but then I figured since they lost Noah, that there was a good excuse.

 

[actaeon277]

I think bringing Nicholas back is going to add to the rift.
He may not be like the construction crew leader that admitted his fault.
Nicholas will blame the group, try to make them look bad, make it look like Aiden was killed because of them.
That, coupled with the idiot priest is going to open up a civil war...... and then we will break for the season.

I'm not sure they will work to a Galactica solution.
The woman lost her son, the seed will be planted in her mind that it's the fault of the new group.

 

[1911ly]

Yeah, I figured. On one hand, the only reason I thought Glen let him live was to at least bring back one of "their" people, so nobody thought something hinke was going on... but then I figured since they lost Noah, that there was a good excuse.

Glen has a heart. He let the gal from Terminus live. He helped save her from the walkers. But this time I think it will bite him in the butt. Nickolas is a little back stabbing coward.

I noticed at the end Aiden was starting to listen to Glen. Checking the perimeter and going threw the building the way Glen suggested. That little SOB(Nic) will blame the deaths on Glen's way of thinking when in fact if they would have listened to Glen the whole time they would all be alive.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Douglas in the comic steps down graciously when it becomes clear that Alexandria needs Rick's leadership. That said, it would be fitting for the TV production to play against established trope and have Deanna go Gaida (see: BSG) and hold onto power and try to kill/banish Rick's group.

Question I have is does Deanna know that Maggie was listening in on Gabriel throwing the group under the bus? If no, then Maggie could go inform Rick like Carol did and Rick can prepare the group for that fall out ahead of time. If yes, then Deanna would expect Rick to prepare the group for fall out and be able to prepare a counter fall out of her own, if so inclined. Also, if Deanna knew/finds out that Maggie overheard, she could either go to her for her opinion in an attempt to counterpoint Gabriel's assertions, or lean toward Gabriel's story being true and go to Maggie to challenge her to defend the group against Gabriel's assertions. Which ever way Deanna jumps based on Gabriel's assertions will set the arc for the rest of the season and into the next. Deanna's plans are literally the MacGuffin now, even if they weren't when she was evangelizing the community to the group two episodes ago.

 

[MCgrease08]

I think Deanna understands that Rick's group has these qualities that Gabriel described as evil. That's why she was actively recruiting people like them.

Hopefully that will help her keep Gabriel's comment in check. The real wild card is going to be how she handles the news of her kid's death.

If she lets that emotion cloud her thinking and judgement then all bets are off.

 

[rhino]

Gabriel is a douche bag.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Loving the BSG references. And the Gaida reference is a little harsh, IMO. His heart was in the right place.

 

[actaeon277]

Have you seen my EYE Mr. Gaida?

 

[CathyInBlue]

His heart was in the right place.

Where he put his heart is what got his ass flushed out a launch tube. He got a taste of power and did what everyone else with a taste of power does, binged on it regardless of cost to others. If Deanna decides she wants to hold onto the reigns of power in her little fiefdom at the expense of a mini war with the Ricktatorship, A) she's gonna lose; B) It will prove my Gaeta analogy was spot on.

 

[EvilElmo]

Preacher man [STRIKE]is[/STRIKE] needs to be whacked!!!

FTFY

 

[Libertarian01]

I think Deanna understands that Rick's group has these qualities that Gabriel described as evil. That's why she was actively recruiting people like them.

Hopefully that will help her keep Gabriel's comment in check. The real wild card is going to be how she handles the news of her kid's death.

If she lets that emotion cloud her thinking and judgement then all bets are off.

I agree with you that she "understands", but only in an intellectual/philosophical way. She really doesn't comprehend the entirety of the violence used or the ease with which they will use it IF they deem it necessary. They understand in totality that they are fighting for their lives every damn day! Deanna hasn't had to do that. She doesn't grasp the stakes involved. I don't think she gets that Rick ripped a mans throat out with his teeth!

It's like me. I have been fascinated with WWI for some time. I am really intrigued by the war to end all wars. I have read an aviators diary. I have read books on the subject. "Intellectually", I get it, but I will NEVER fully appreciate the absolute horror of that war! I will never get the strain of the trenches and mud and rats and artillery and going over the top and stench and bayonets and getting stuck in the wire and gas and and and and...

This is where I think Deanna is very lacking. Where Deanna is at a loss is where she thinks because she says something it will be listened to, just because. She doesn't see the need to back it up with real force, instantly. Rick can and will, at least with those outside his core group. Those within his group have earned his respect, so he will listen. Those outside? Listen - or else... BOOM!

Where he put his heart is what got his ass flushed out a launch tube. He got a taste of power and did what everyone else with a taste of power does, binged on it regardless of cost to others. If Deanna decides she wants to hold onto the reigns of power in her little fiefdom at the expense of a mini war with the Ricktatorship, A) she's gonna lose; B) It will prove my Gaeta analogy was spot on.

I don't think Rick wants to lead, he never has. He was more than content to let Herschel run things at the prison. That said, he doesn't want stupid in charge either.

I believe Rick would be more than happy to let Deanna run the town, but he needs to be heard and have his words appreciated! She was willing but reluctant to put someone in the church tower. She doesn't understand the stakes involved. This is where I see her and Rick coming to a loggerhead. What Rick instantly assumes she is clueless to. When he explains it she gets it intellectually but not emotionally. I think she sees him as overly paranoid because she doesn't understand just how lucky they have been.

What they need is Aaron there to a degree. I think he would be someone she would trust AND someone who has a real grasp of what is going on outside the walls! He is honest enough to back up Rick and possibly "translate" Ricks apparent paranoia into a reality that Deanna can understand. Regrettably, I don't think that will happen.

Another possible scenario is where Rick takes charge but Deanna is the head bureaucrat. Maybe(?) that would work. Rick can give the orders on what needs to be done and why, then Deanna can carry it out. That would be a reasonable balance, IF Deanna is willing.

Anywho's... I am really looking forward to next weeks episode! These are two groups that can work together and I hope they do, but I am expecting friction that may well light a fire.

Regards,

Doug

 

[jbombelli]

All friction will likely melt away when a certain somebody shows up and shws Deanna how things really are out there in the world.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I agree with you that she "understands", but only in an intellectual/philosophical way. She really doesn't comprehend the entirety of the violence used or the ease with which they will use it IF they deem it necessary. They understand in totality that they are fighting for their lives every damn day! Deanna hasn't had to do that. She doesn't grasp the stakes involved. I don't think she gets that Rick ripped a mans throat out with his teeth!

It's like me. I have been fascinated with WWI for some time. I am really intrigued by the war to end all wars. I have read an aviators diary. I have read books on the subject. "Intellectually", I get it, but I will NEVER fully appreciate the absolute horror of that war! I will never get the strain of the trenches and mud and rats and artillery and going over the top and stench and bayonets and getting stuck in the wire and gas and and and and...

This is where I think Deanna is very lacking. Where Deanna is at a loss is where she thinks because she says something it will be listened to, just because. She doesn't see the need to back it up with real force, instantly. Rick can and will, at least with those outside his core group. Those within his group have earned his respect, so he will listen. Those outside? Listen - or else... BOOM!



I don't think Rick wants to lead, he never has. He was more than content to let Herschel run things at the prison. That said, he doesn't want stupid in charge either.

I believe Rick would be more than happy to let Deanna run the town, but he needs to be heard and have his words appreciated! She was willing but reluctant to put someone in the church tower. She doesn't understand the stakes involved. This is where I see her and Rick coming to a loggerhead. What Rick instantly assumes she is clueless to. When he explains it she gets it intellectually but not emotionally. I think she sees him as overly paranoid because she doesn't understand just how lucky they have been.

What they need is Aaron there to a degree. I think he would be someone she would trust AND someone who has a real grasp of what is going on outside the walls! He is honest enough to back up Rick and possibly "translate" Ricks apparent paranoia into a reality that Deanna can understand. Regrettably, I don't think that will happen.

Another possible scenario is where Rick takes charge but Deanna is the head bureaucrat. Maybe(?) that would work. Rick can give the orders on what needs to be done and why, then Deanna can carry it out. That would be a reasonable balance, IF Deanna is willing.

Anywho's... I am really looking forward to next weeks episode! These are two groups that can work together and I hope they do, but I am expecting friction that may well light a fire.

Regards,

Doug

Exactly, she doesn't understand what type of violence the group is capable of. There was a guy who was talking about how far the group progressed, and how they've become EXACTLY like the first villain of the show, Shane. Shane was the first to understand the world they lived in, and how to survive. Remember how horrified the group was of Shane's actions? How many of them would bat an eye now, if Shane had killed that young guy who he took to the woods? The group is essentially a bunch of Shane clones.

 

[dusty88]

I wonder if what was causing Gabriel's crisis of faith at the beginning of the episode was the fact that he'd already decided in his heart to sell Rick and the group out to Deanna at the end of the episode.

I was trying to figure out what he was trying to gain, or if he was just too confused.

I'm guessing it's that he wants this Alexandria world, which is kind of the denial place he was in before. If he blames the "bad things" Rick's group did on the group, then he can justify his denial ?

I found it to be a good episode leading up to some real issues.

Yeah, assuming the walls are staying up for now, it's about time for a judicial committee (or some argument that ends up resembling a judicial decision). Deanna can't be impartial about her own son. She did recognize his arrogance was his own risk but that probably won't be enough. Glenn is likely to return in a state of absolute fury about how Noah was killed.

I don't think Jessie intentionally went after Rick. She's hiding the abuse either because that's just what victims of abuse do, or because it got worse after the apocalypse (notice drunk doc) and she thinks she should just manage it. Note one of the first things she said to Rick was that she could look out for herself.