The SB 101 (Religious Freedom Restoration) Thread

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    dusty88

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    I you feel like you have to post a sticker to prove your support for the LGBTQ community, I don't want to be your customer.

    I think the reality of the "sticker" is it shows you are opposing the RFRA law, and they'll twist your arm for that. That will blow over quickly though. My response to someone saying "if you don't have the sticker up it must mean you are discriminating" was similar to the other business.

    "I've never discriminated and there is no reason for me to go on the defensive. "

    This feels a lot like "if you disagree with Obama you must be a racist" stuff.

    Fortunately for me, I have openly gay friends and customers and I'm not shy about my support for legalizing gay marriage. So no one in real life is going to accuse me of any bigotry here.

    Actually it was only here on INGO that I got an accusation, and that was simply for suggesting Angie's list isn't in great financial shape LOL.


    Hopefully their next business model will involve knowing when they should, and when they shouldn't, open their mouths.

    True, but you shouldn't have to be media-sophisticated to run a business establishment in a small town.

    I feel for the way they were set up. And I understand the difference between "refusing to serve gays" and "we wouldn't cater gay weddings". However, I would calmly participate in the boycott. If these business owners were friends of mine, I would ask them to reconsider their stance. I have friends with similar Christian views. I have gay friends. My gay friends who are also mostly atheist, would congratulate the Christians at their wedding and kindly participate appropriately in the ceremony or would photograph, cater, whatever their wedding. I would ask my Christian friends to behave in the same way. A wedding is a personal celebration, not a forum for discussion of personal behavior.

    One of the best examples for a pizza restaurant would be the sin of gluttony. I'll bet those restaurant owners serve gluttonous people on a regular basis, and even directly enable that sin. They could no doubt tell me why that is not the same as participating in a gay wedding. They've been hearing it a lot in church. My opinion is that those who benefit from anti-gay rhetoric are somewhat analogous to politicians. If you create some controversy and outrage in the church, you create a certain type of bonding and support through the outrage.

    Anyway, then I would tell them that I can't support their business due to their business model. Just as they think the gay wedding is wrong, I think their business model is harmful to society and I can't support it . I'll still be their friend, but I won't support their business.
     

    dusty88

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    I'm guessing it could take a fair bit of that money to find some kind of system for re-opening and still being able to take orders: you know a way to keep hackers out as well as fake pizza orders. If he can only take orders in the store, that's got to hurt a pizza business.

    His best best now would be a big community event with some of the money: serve pizza, maybe have a charity function, and if he's lucky he does a Chick Filet and becomes friends with a major gay activist.
     

    Doug

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    I think the reality of the "sticker" is it shows you are opposing the RFRA law, and they'll twist your arm for that. That will blow over quickly though. My response to someone saying "if you don't have the sticker up it must mean you are discriminating" was similar to the other business.

    "I've never discriminated and there is no reason for me to go on the defensive. "

    This feels a lot like "if you disagree with Obama you must be a racist" stuff.

    Fortunately for me, I have openly gay friends and customers and I'm not shy about my support for legalizing gay marriage. So no one in real life is going to accuse me of any bigotry here.

    Anyway, then I would tell them that I can't support their business due to their business model. Just as they think the gay wedding is wrong, I think their business model is harmful to society and I can't support it . I'll still be their friend, but I won't support their business.

    Exactly, and since I tend not to support businesses that say disagreement with Obama's policies equals racism, I would prefer not to support businesses that put the sticker in the window. I think their business model is harmful to society.
     

    PistolBob

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    Someone on a forum was suggesting a GoFundMe site be started for someone to open a gay pizza joint in Walkerton to put these other folks out of business.

    Walkerton has 2100 people in it.

    MAYBE 50 are gay...half those are potentially vegans...some of them don't eat pizza....

    Yeah...go build a gay pizza joint in the middle of the cornfields...
     

    miguel

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    Someone on a forum was suggesting a GoFundMe site be started for someone to open a gay pizza joint in Walkerton to put these other folks out of business.

    Walkerton has 2100 people in it.

    MAYBE 50 are gay...half those are potentially vegans...some of them don't eat pizza....

    Yeah...go build a gay pizza joint in the middle of the cornfields...

    Cool, then we can boycott it...with all the trappings.
     

    chipbennett

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    I feel for the way they were set up. And I understand the difference between "refusing to serve gays" and "we wouldn't cater gay weddings". However, I would calmly participate in the boycott. If these business owners were friends of mine, I would ask them to reconsider their stance. I have friends with similar Christian views. I have gay friends. My gay friends who are also mostly atheist, would congratulate the Christians at their wedding and kindly participate appropriately in the ceremony or would photograph, cater, whatever their wedding. I would ask my Christian friends to behave in the same way. A wedding is a personal celebration, not a forum for discussion of personal behavior.

    I am going to try to respond to this as delicately as possible, so as not to run afoul of forum rules.

    My views are similar to yours, although I do not "believe in" gay marriage. I believe that marriage is a covenant relationship defined by God, and we cannot change that definition. The solution to the problem is to get the State out of marriage entirely, and let it remain a religious matter.

    That said: it is explicitly contrary to biblical teaching to encourage a fellow believer to act contrary to his conscience, in a manner that the fellow believer considers to be sinful. Just because I have no qualms about eating a cupcake at a gay wedding (because I understand that food is just food) does not make it right for me to encourage someone else to do likewise, when that person's conscience tells him that eating the cupcake at the gay wedding condones something that the person believes is sinful. (Hopefully obvious parallel to I Corinthians passage is obvious.)

    Believing in freedom of conscience means tolerating people who hold beliefs different from my own. I can't imagine myself boycotting anyone, based merely on a belief. It is how one acts on a belief that matters.
     

    brotherbill3

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    READ: Conference Committee's RFRA fix proposal - TheIndyChannel.com


    Modified Language PDF - as of Not - NOT on the IGA - the conference committee on SB 50 - revised that - as it was not completely thru the legislative process - pulled all original language add added what here

    This still needs to be approved by both houses of the IGA ...

    the IGA site on SB 50 is not up to date (as of posting this here)
     
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    I think the reality of the "sticker" is it shows you are opposing the RFRA law, and they'll twist your arm for that. That will blow over quickly though. My response to someone saying "if you don't have the sticker up it must mean you are discriminating" was similar to the other business.

    "I've never discriminated and there is no reason for me to go on the defensive. "

    This feels a lot like "if you disagree with Obama you must be a racist" stuff.

    Fortunately for me, I have openly gay friends and customers and I'm not shy about my support for legalizing gay marriage. So no one in real life is going to accuse me of any bigotry here.

    Actually it was only here on INGO that I got an accusation, and that was simply for suggesting Angie's list isn't in great financial shape LOL.




    True, but you shouldn't have to be media-sophisticated to run a business establishment in a small town.

    I feel for the way they were set up. And I understand the difference between "refusing to serve gays" and "we wouldn't cater gay weddings". However, I would calmly participate in the boycott. If these business owners were friends of mine, I would ask them to reconsider their stance. I have friends with similar Christian views. I have gay friends. My gay friends who are also mostly atheist, would congratulate the Christians at their wedding and kindly participate appropriately in the ceremony or would photograph, cater, whatever their wedding. I would ask my Christian friends to behave in the same way. A wedding is a personal celebration, not a forum for discussion of personal behavior.

    One of the best examples for a pizza restaurant would be the sin of gluttony. I'll bet those restaurant owners serve gluttonous people on a regular basis, and even directly enable that sin. They could no doubt tell me why that is not the same as participating in a gay wedding. They've been hearing it a lot in church. My opinion is that those who benefit from anti-gay rhetoric are somewhat analogous to politicians. If you create some controversy and outrage in the church, you create a certain type of bonding and support through the outrage.

    Anyway, then I would tell them that I can't support their business due to their business model. Just as they think the gay wedding is wrong, I think their business model is harmful to society and I can't support it . I'll still be their friend, but I won't support their business.

    I wish I'd said this.

    Back when the first window opened up for a few days and gays were able to get married in Indiana I served as a combination best man/ring bearer (an office I last filled when I was seven years old) for two gay lady friends as they got married in the living room of their clergyman.

    I am still deeply moved by the fact that they feel such affection for this old gun-toting flatfoot ultra-conservative neanderthal they they honored me in such a personal way.

    I have no use for those who are so high-handed as to try to harm or interfere with people who are harming or interfering with no one.

    You haters feel free to flame away. I have my asbestos skivvies on.
     

    A 7.62 Exodus

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    IF the original bill was a "hobby lobby" product, then I really hope these resolutions pass. That way, everyone will shut the **** up about this whole debacle, and I won't have to hear about in every other reddit thread
     

    chipbennett

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    READ: Conference Committee's RFRA fix proposal - TheIndyChannel.com


    Modified Language PDF - as of Not - NOT on the IGA - the conference committee on SB 50 - revised that - as it was not completely thru the legislative process - pulled all original language add added what here

    This still needs to be approved by both houses of the IGA ...

    the IGA site on SB 50 is not up to date (as of posting this here)

    I *believe* this is the same thing?

    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1699997-read-the-updated-indiana-religious-freedom.html
     

    chipbennett

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    I wish I'd said this.

    Back when the first window opened up for a few days and gays were able to get married in Indiana I served as a combination best man/ring bearer (an office I last filled when I was seven years old) for two gay lady friends as they got married in the living room of their clergyman.

    I am still deeply moved by the fact that they feel such affection for this old gun-toting flatfoot ultra-conservative neanderthal they they honored me in such a personal way.

    I have no use for those who are so high-handed as to try to harm or interfere with people who are harming or interfering with no one.

    You haters feel free to flame away. I have my asbestos skivvies on.

    High horse is high, but your rant has absolutely nothing to do with the Indiana RFRA.
     

    ArcadiaGP

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    Over a $100k now.. hell, I might be willing to pass judgment for an opportunity to pay off my mortgage.

    Cute, but I don't think they passed judgement either, seeing as it was a hypothetical situation that's never happened.

    A lot of this seems more anti-religion (or even anti-christian), and less about RFRA.
     
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