The republican party will soon be gone...

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  • Hohn

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    The current path is the GOP is on will lead it to either irrelevance or destruction.

    Social issues are a loser. Why? Because those who agree with Conservative social positions in the highest numbers are the past, not the future. When conservatives have a statistically different divorce rate (which we don't), then people might care about their superior values.

    The GOP lecturing on values is akin to an alcoholic lecturing another alcoholic on the evils of alcohol-- with a drink in his hand. Credibility counts.


    But we must guard against another temptation on the other side of this-- the idea that standard that cannot be universally met should never be held. Do we really want to adopt the idea that falling short of a high standard is worse that having none at all? Is hypocrisy such a powerful criticism that we'd rather stand for NOTHING? I hope not.

    The Democrats have a lot of unity. They all know how much government is needed (more), how much redistribution they want (more).

    This is all the more impressive because the Democrat constituency groups have nothing really in common. There's no reason a gay may should support environmentalism, or that a abortionist should go to bat for unions. Yet it happens.

    The Democrats have succeeded at a much harder task than that which the Republicans are failing at-- unifying a party. Their task is harder because Republicans tend to vote more on principles than on crass personal benefit calculus. You'd think organizing people around limited government would be much simpler. Apparently, it's not.

    It reminds me of Ron Paul's farewell speech in which he pointed out how his greatest disappointment was how difficult it was to sell freedom.


    If Republicans want to ever be relevant again, they need a back-to-basics approach that is stone-axe simple. Start with freedom. Why it matters, what it really is, and which party sprang from a desire to give freedom to slaves.

    Start with reminding people what we COULD lose freedom here, as Reagan hinted in his Time for Choosing speech.


    Best of all, we must adopt a core of "extremists" among the young.
     

    mydoghasfleas

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    Dont worry, there will always be dragons to slay, red socks vs yankees, our team against theirs.

    Without that preoccupation and false hope of salvation, the people might actually do something about the slowly boiling pot of water we are all in.
     

    zippy23

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    this is the kind of thing i'm talking about, we are ALL against the liberals, yet we argue about stupid crap, we should all be doing what we can to defeat liberalism, instead of arguing about republican and libertarian crap. we have values and some of those are different sure, but liberals have no values, its all about winning no matter the cost, we need to be all about winning as well, by unifying.
     

    HARVEYtheDAMNED

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    Dec 8, 2011
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    this is the kind of thing i'm talking about, we are ALL against the liberals, yet we argue about stupid crap, we should all be doing what we can to defeat liberalism, instead of arguing about republican and libertarian crap. we have values and some of those are different sure, but liberals have no values, its all about winning no matter the cost, we need to be all about winning as well, by unifying.

    That's quite the bold statement.

    I wouldn't want the Republican party to "go away," but I sure wouldn't mind a transformation. The GOP needs to stop focusing on Social issues, throwing God everywhere, and electing morons. Most people I know who identify themselves as Republican are great people, can't say the same for their "leaders."
     

    jbombelli

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    <redacted>

    If Republicans want to ever be relevant again, they need a back-to-basics approach that is stone-axe simple. Start with freedom. Why it matters, what it really is, and which party sprang from a desire to give freedom to slaves.

    <redacted>

    Most people don't want freedom. The minute you start talking about freedom they start calling you an anarchist and a drug abuser, and accuse you of supporting child molesting, bestiality and lewd acts in public.

    So good luck with that.
     

    Liberty1911

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    Most people don't want freedom. The minute you start talking about freedom they start calling you an anarchist and a drug abuser, and accuse you of supporting child molesting, bestiality and lewd acts in public.

    So good luck with that.


    Generally though, the people who scream freedom the loudest, ARE talking about those things.

    They think freedom means smoking a joint, then getting an abortion.

    When the libertarians start talking about repealing the welfare state, returning power to the states under 10A, then I'll listen to speeches about freedom.

    Currently though, all we get are diatribes about legalizing drugs and homosexual marriage.
     

    CarmelHP

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 14, 2008
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    Most people don't want freedom. The minute you start talking about freedom they start calling you an anarchist and a drug abuser, and accuse you of supporting child molesting, bestiality and lewd acts in public.

    So good luck with that.

    Exactly right. The Republican Party won the election as recently as 2004. That election the security moms wanted their kids frisked to stop terrorists. In 2008 and 2012 they wanted food stamps, "free" healthcare, and unemployment checks after their husbands were laid off. That's the real swing in the election, nothing about freedom, just nannyism. If Obama would send out the checks by grinding gays into sausages and selling them, they'd be just as happy. Let's not start fooling ourselves by insisting that this or that pet issue is the reason for election outcomes.
     

    mrjarrell

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    When the libertarians start talking about repealing the welfare state, returning power to the states under 10A, then I'll listen to speeches about freedom.
    Libertarians have been talking about those very things for years. Just because you haven't been listening doesn't mean it isn't going on.
     

    Liberty1911

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    Libertarians have been talking about those very things for years. Just because you haven't been listening doesn't mean it isn't going on.

    Sorry. No sale. Just look at libertarians on INGO. If they're a representative sample, all you hear are cries for legalization and homosexual marriage.

    Then they proceed to tell the republicans to "drop the social issues".

    Nah, libertarians are all about the "social issues" and have at best, a passing interest in dismantling the welfare state.
     

    mrjarrell

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    Sorry. No sale. Just look at libertarians on INGO. If they're a representative sample, all you hear are cries for legalization and homosexual marriage.

    Then they proceed to tell the republicans to "drop the social issues".

    Nah, libertarians are all about the "social issues" and have at best, a passing interest in dismantling the welfare state.
    Well, if that's your best defence for your ignorance, it's rather pale. You'd rather take issues at the forefront of the day, rather than issues that libertarians have been touting for many years, as the be all end all. Feel free to keep wallowing.
     

    jbombelli

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    Sorry. No sale. Just look at libertarians on INGO. If they're a representative sample, all you hear are cries for legalization and homosexual marriage.

    Then they proceed to tell the republicans to "drop the social issues".

    Nah, libertarians are all about the "social issues" and have at best, a passing interest in dismantling the welfare state.

    Well then I suggest you keep on voting for Republicans. They're all about eliminating welfare and bringing back an era of fiscal responsibility.

    :rolleyes:
     

    Liberty1911

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    Well then I suggest you keep on voting for Republicans. They're all about eliminating welfare and bringing back an era of fiscal responsibility.

    :rolleyes:

    I didn't say republicans were the answer. The Tea party comes closest to my ideals.

    At least republicans get more than 1% of the vote though. :rolleyes:
     

    jbombelli

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    I didn't say republicans were the answer. The Tea party comes closest to my ideals.

    At least republicans get more than 1% of the vote though. :rolleyes:

    I don't remember seeing "Tea Party" as an actual party affiliation on a ballot.

    I see (D), (R), (L), etc., but no (TP).

    Enjoy your welfare/police state.
     

    nate1865

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    I am all for forming a new party, not to split the conservative side of politics, but to rebrand it and rally it under a refreshed brand that isn't so coupled to big business and the religious right.

    This could energize and shake up American politics, potentially bringing over those legacy Democrats that want freedom, not a different set of rules depending on who wins.
     

    Liberty1911

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    I don't remember seeing "Tea Party" as an actual party affiliation on a ballot.

    I see (D), (R), (L), etc., but no (TP).

    Enjoy your welfare/police state.


    Sorry, you can't pin that on me. I'd bet Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are right up your alley, Tea party and all.

    At least the Tea Party are getting people elected, and are having an effect on actual policy. How many Libertarians got elected to congress? That's right, zero.

    I'd say my vision is about 1000% more effective than yours. So enjoy your welfare/police state. At least people I support have a chance of getting elected to change it.
     

    jbombelli

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    Sorry, you can't pin that on me. I'd bet Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are right up your alley, Tea party and all.

    At least the Tea Party are getting people elected, and are having an effect on actual policy. How many Libertarians got elected to congress? That's right, zero.

    I'd say my vision is about 1000% more effective than yours. So enjoy your welfare/police state. At least people I support have a chance of getting elected to change it.

    Yeah. You keep on believing that. 30 years of watching the Republican party at work has led me to believe that I'm getting the welfare/police state YOUR vote is bringing me.

    Your vision involves voting for more welfare and more police state.

    Be sure to let me know when the Republican party decides to repeal the Patriot Act and NDAA, and actually makes some significant spending cuts instead of piddling little amounts that don't really have any effect on our problems, instead of just talking a good story. I'll be waiting.
     

    Liberty1911

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    Yeah. You keep on believing that. 30 years of watching the Republican party at work has led me to believe that I'm getting the welfare/police state YOUR vote is bringing me.

    Your vision involves voting for more welfare and more police state.

    Be sure to let me know when the Republican party decides to repeal the Patriot Act and NDAA, and actually makes some significant spending cuts instead of piddling little amounts that don't really have any effect on our problems, instead of just talking a good story. I'll be waiting.


    Again, you're making the mistake of thinking I'm a republican and support the republican party. I don't.

    The point is, Tea Party candidates are using the Republican party as a platform to actually get elected, so they can have a real effect on policy.

    Even the Libertarian darling Ron Paul used the Republican Party because he knew that the Libertarian Party was a wasted effort with zero chance of electing anyone.

    So, you can continue to waste your vote on a failed party, or you can work to get people like Ron Paul elected.

    In the meantime, enjoy the welfare/police state your wasted vote has helped bring about.
     
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