The President Trump Immigration Thread

[Route 45]

Similar to labeling people as "enemies"... as though you're some sort of keyboard combatant ready to fight.

Just because you can't imagine defending your rights with violence, should the need arise, doesn't mean that others are wrong in recognizing people who seek to destroy our rights as legitimate enemies.

 

[jbombelli]

I think you all have to admit one thing at least... Trump is doing everything he can to keep every one of his promises, one of which was a wall.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

How are they not in lnvaders? Just as a fascist is a fascist..ect...if the foo sh!ts wear it ..dont try and sweatin it up..in fact i just googled websters definition of the word invader... The word trespassers is in it ..look it up...they are by definition invaders

I'm aware of the literal definition of the word. It's just political semantics, connotation vs denotation.

He's smart to use the word, because it fires people up. Not denying there's a problem with these caravans, just acknowledging how certain words are being used for a reason.

When they call him a Hitler/Nazi/Fascist... that prevents them from acknowledging any of the good things he does. Who would want to say 'Literally Hitler' did something good? You can't. It allows them to justify "punching nazis".

When he calls people "enemies"... there's power behind that word. It's an effort to delegitimize a group, to "cancel" their humanity. "Invaders" is similar. It sets up the urgency to do something.

 

[fnpfan]

By denying definition weather by flat out denial or by not liking the use of that term makes it no less true, these are the problems we run into when people go by feelings rather than facts, we have judges making ruling on feelings over laws we have a public that believes their feelings make it ok to stifle free speach...this is a problem and it needs addressed.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Yeah. For good or ill, that's the way I see it.

ETA:
Now what do we do?

If congress believes this president has gone too far, they pass a joint resolution, overriding his likely veto, and declare it is not an emergency.

If the congress believes they err'ed in giving any president this much leeway, they re-write the law.

It's how our system works.

 

[BugI02]

That’s some awesome hyperbole. Criticize every little thing? Dude, if wiped out all my posts where I said something favorable about Trump, I’d wipe out more than half my posts about Trump. But on this issue, of abusing power, ***damn straight I’ll criticize him. So. Enough about me. Can you point to any action Trump has taken that you’ve not supported? Just point me to some evidence that you’re capable of taking an objectively skeptical view. It’s like some of his followers can only offer uncritical undying support. Do you know what kind of following that is?

That I've not supported, or that I've publicly criticized by post in INGO? I play my cards pretty close to the vest

Edit: Still haven't answered the question. Like I said, consistent

 

[bwframe]

 

[jamil]

Do you not feel that being over run by illegals is an emergency? Most working class Americans can not afford basic health care, yet its freely handed to these invaders, is the fact that the average family of illegals is getting approximately between 300-500 dollars per month for free food while their men work under the table or under an assumed ssi# and bring in more than the average working American family after their free food..free medical care plus the males income not included.. How is this not an emergency?? Why should the hard working underappreciated American tax payer have the burden of supporting people that dont belong here while they go without themselves?? If you have good reasons why I would love to hear them..and remember nobody is against immigration. We are against illegal invaders. Just the revenue for paying their way pays for the wall in under a year.

No. It's not an emergency. Trump didn't think it was an emergency. Just a couple of years ago Trump bragged that illegal immigration at the Mexican border is the lowest it's been in 17 years.

I am against illegal invaders too. That requires a lot more than just putting up a wall. It doesn't justify any means necessary, like exploiting emergency powers to enact what congress wouldn't. No other president has used emergency powers like that. And for a ****ing wall?

 

[jamil]

Dude, it goes both ways. There are some people whose hatred of Trump makes them incapable of acknowledging anything good Trump does. To them, anyone acknowledging such are just inhuman. That's Trump derangement syndrome. There are also people who are incapable of acknowledging anything bad Trump does. To them, anyone who dares criticize Trump even for one thing is the enemy.

Both extremes are examples of delusion.

 

[jamil]

That I've not supported, or that I've publicly criticized by post in INGO? I play my cards pretty close to the vest

Edit: Still haven't answered the question. Like I said, consistent

"You never, ever answer the question about why it is so important to have vocal converts to your viewpoint."

It's an absurd question. Ask something applicable to me and I'll answer it.

Okay, so now, answer my question. Are you capable of criticizing Trump. Now. If the essence of your question was to enquirer why I ask this question, you should probably word the question in a way which means a lot closer to what I'm actually asking.

I ask because I'm hoping you'll think about it and admit to your self whether or not you're capable of critical thinking regarding Trump. It looks to me like some of you guys rationalize pretty heavily. No one is 100% great all the time. If you're making excuses for why he is, well, that's not critical thinking, now is it?

 

[jamil]

I think you all have to admit one thing at least... Trump is doing everything he can to keep every one of his promises, one of which was a wall.

I like that Trump is trying to keep his campaign promises. That's something I respect about the guy. In a democratic republic trying is sometimes the best you can do because other people disagree and they get a vote too. Going around that by exploiting powers meant for other purposes isn't rule of law. This one is a promise I'd give him credit for just for trying.

 

[Dead Duck]

I like that Trump is trying to keep his campaign promises. That's something I respect about the guy. In a democratic republic trying is sometimes the best you can do because other people disagree and they get a vote too. Going around that by exploiting powers meant for other purposes isn't rule of law. This one is a promise I'd give him credit for just for trying.

Question - Why do you love drug smuggling, gang banging, kid raping, woman murdering, border jumping monsters?

 

[jamil]

That's like "why do you hate freedom?"

 

[Dead Duck]

That's like "why do you hate freedom?"

You're right.
All this time I've been trying to keep them out when I should have been welcoming all the drug smuggling, gang banging, kid raping, woman murdering, border jumping monsters.

Thank you for straightening me out.

 

[jamil]

You're right.
All this time I've been trying to keep them out when I should have been welcoming all the drug smuggling, gang banging, kid raping, woman murdering, border jumping monsters.

Thank you for straightening me out.

I'm pretty sure you don't understand why I posted that. I'll take a crack at it though. Surely you've been around to see the "why do you hate freedom" statements that come up in discussions involving INGOtarians. Your statement reminded me of the "why do you hate freedom" shtick. The statement had nothing to do with actual freedom. Just the question.

But, I can address seriously if you want.

"Question - Why do you love drug smuggling, gang banging, kid raping, woman murdering, border jumping monsters? "

It's my position that Trump is overstepping his power as president. But, he's using emergency powers in a way that they haven't been used before, to bypass congress. THAT's pretty much my objection. But somehow you concoct this odd binary where if I disagree with Trump using executive power, I somehow favor drug smuggling, gang banging, kid raping, and whatnot. This is an astonishing leap of logic here. Not true. It's not like anyone's made the case that a wall will stop that...and certainly have not made the case that whatever benefits the wall might actually have, that it's worth the cost in dollars, and the cost in bad precedents.

 

[fnpfan]

No. It's not an emergency. Trump didn't think it was an emergency. Just a couple of years ago Trump bragged that illegal immigration at the Mexican border is the lowest it's been in 17 years.

I am against illegal invaders too. That requires a lot more than just putting up a wall. It doesn't justify any means necessary, like exploiting emergency powers to enact what congress wouldn't. No other president has used emergency powers like that. And for a ****ing wall?

I would hate to see what you consider an emergency... Apparently the American people being used by invaders that do not even belong here is no biggie and the billions per month dumped into providing for the illegals, the fact that with those funds freed up our country would be much better off. Without the flood of illegal labor, a man could work a construction job and still be in the middle class.. I would look up emergency just as you had to look up the word invader..you may be suprised, or not..you dont seem to be to hung up on a words definition

 

[PaulF]

The whole "invaders" angle feels no different than how they label others as "nazi" and "fascist"... to justify certain responses and reactions.

Similar to labeling people as "enemies"... as though you're some sort of keyboard combatant ready to fight.

"Human beings taking action to improve their own lives" doesn't have that urgent "support my authoritarianism" ring to it. Those people are the ones actually ambitious and motivated to do something about the hand they were dealt. The losers and the lazy stay home.

There are (give or take) 330,000,000 people in the US today. A caravan of 30,000 people changes that by 0.0001 percent. Invasion? Hardly...NPR reports that three times that many people cross the border every day at just one checkpoint (San Ysidro Land Port of Entry).

Nobody on INGO has any problem seeing very clearly how the left-wing media uses footage of weeping parents to manipulate their liberal audience into believing there is a "Gun Violence Epidemic" occurring right now on the streets of America. We know it's bull****. The facts and numbers don't support it. It is a manipulation tactic that works on that audience.

INGO seems to have more of an issue identifying when these tactics are being used against us, though...and I think this is a perfect example. The right-wing media uses these images to play on their audience's fear of a changing American demographic. They try to reinforce the idea that a changing American Demographic necessarily equals a permanently diminished America...a diminishing that only their guys can fix.

It's total bull****, of course, but people really do buy into it...just look around this thread.

 

[fnpfan]

"Human beings taking action to improve their own lives" doesn't have that urgent "support my authoritarianism" ring to it. Those people are the ones actually ambitious and motivated to do something about the hand they were dealt. The losers and the lazy stay home.

There are (give or take) 330,000,000 people in the US today. A caravan of 30,000 people changes that by 0.0001 percent. Invasion? Hardly...NPR reports that three times that many people cross the border every day at just one checkpoint (San Ysidro Land Port of Entry).

Nobody on INGO has any problem seeing very clearly how the left-wing media uses footage of weeping parents to manipulate their liberal audience into believing there is a "Gun Violence Epidemic" occurring right now on the streets of America. We know it's bull****. The facts and numbers don't support it. It is a manipulation tactic that works on that audience.

INGO seems to have more of an issue identifying when these tactics are being used against us, though...and I think this is a perfect example. The right-wing media uses these images to play on their audience's fear of a changing American demographic. They try to reinforce the idea that a changing American Demographic necessarily equals a permanently diminished America...a diminishing that only their guys can fix.

It's total bull****, of course, but people really do buy into it...just look around this thread.

If these people were as motivated as you say, they would be striving to make their county great...not walk to a new country willing to provide free stuff.. These people claim to be fleeing gang violence and poverty.. Do what our forefathers did..change your world..you have thousands fleeing gang violence..when it should be thousands fighting gang violence..and dont say that cant be done because a rag tag group of settlers took on the largest army in the world to claim our independence.. They are taking the easy way..not the admirable way..make your country great. We are working on ours too..if you truly want freedom you are willing to fight for it.. Not just walk for it..

 

[Mongo59]

Paul, are you saying these people are crossing illegally just as to not have to wait in line at a legal crossing point? I say that because it is just as easy of a stance to take as to infer they are all upstanding, well intending members of society.

The flaw in the logic you put forth is if INGO members were to take any situation in their own hands and blatantly break the law, I don't think you would either find the rest of us cheering them on or encouraging them to go further.

If the prevailing thought here would be "screw the law, it's a free for all" I would think you would have a point, but that is not the case.

On the other hand, thinking we (as a nation) can continue to "give everything to everyone... forever" is trying to maintain a false economy. We have to try and be good stewards of the nation we inherited with the intent of passing it on. Allowing anyone to come in to our country illegally means we have no idea who they are, how many there are and if they are paying taxes to help support the society that looked so promising to them from where the came. Entering legally is the exact opposite.

Whether you fear a changing demographic or that the drunk illegal in the car that just hit your family has no license, registration or insurance, it comes down to the same questions: why did this have to happen and why are they here?

If the answer to those questions are "I was too cheap or too lazy to do anything to prevent it", that is something we all have to live with...

 

[Hkindiana]

"Human beings taking action to improve their own lives" doesn't have that urgent "support my authoritarianism" ring to it. Those people are the ones actually ambitious and motivated to do something about the hand they were dealt. The losers and the lazy stay home.

It's total bull****, of course, but people really do buy into it...just look around this thread.

Would you use the same description for your local drug dealer, or thief that brakes into your hone? "They are just human beings trying to better their lives?" I'm all for self improvement, but their are legal and illegsl ways to do it. If you do it illegally, at my expense (or taxpayers), then then they ARE "criminals".