Still playing Socrates, I see. I will assume the thrust of the question to be the interpretation I can answer
Things I could criticize about Trump (recent events edition)
1) Staying in Syria after not staying in Syria after staying in Syria. I see nothing to potentially be gained in Syria worth anything near the likely cost in blood and treasure. The leave Syria/Stay Syria cost him Mattis (ignoring the supposition that Mattis was a snake, which I don't think is completely correct) for no gain whatsoever. I sympathize with the plight of the Kurds somewhat, but not enough to sacrifice one more US soldier. They have the same problem the Palestinians do, to a lesser degree - so much of what they want just isn't going to happen
2) Not declassifying and releasing all the source material surrounding Russia! Russia! Russia! that is possible. I believe the narrative that the Obama appointed/supporting heads of the DoJ and the surveillance state conceived and executed a plan to weaken Trump, make it harder for him to get quality cabinet members, and distract him from actually running the country at a crucial time in order to hopefully get rid of him with your cherished BAMN. I think this borders on actual treason on their part. If he has relevant data and can release it, he should. Many of us are bright enough to see where that evidence leads, regardless of the expected howling and spin of the MSM. I am still hopeful that this is the intent and the delay is a matter of timing
3) The bumpstock ban. Deeply ambivalent about this one, though. I don't like our guy giving an inch on 2A without a fight; but I believe that these are the stupidest, most useless accessories for a firearm and only serve some purpose in the most unlikely #ResistTyranny fever dreams. If you have rapid fire but you can't aim it, you might as well just have a MAC10. I'm pissed that morons made this the hill they wanted us to die on. Almost a wash for me except I wish he had put up more of a fight, if he thought rolling over would get him some maneuvering room elsewhere he was wrong and this calls into question the whole 4D chess thing - maybe should stick to 3D
4) I'm ambivalent about the plan to end the criminalization of homosexuality. We already pretty much don't have that, neither does the civilized west. He's going to have to make headway in the ME, the far east and Africa. It's a tough row to hoe, is a distraction from arguably more important first order concerns, and lacks an apparent carrot or stick. It just seems like cynical pandering designed to give the appearance of doing something without any real expectation he can affect the issue in anything more than a marginal way. This makes me wonder if he is more cynical and political than I currently believe
5) The wall emergency declaration, but not for any reason remotely similar to you. As I've stated previously, I think the only thing that has prevented Democrats from using exactly these methods is they might not have thought of it. Once it was talked about, I don't think anything Trump does or does not do will affect the likelihood of them using the stratagem in the slightest, so the whole bad precedent thing is a non-starter for me. What bothers me is if this was deliberately timed. If the whole point is that the planning encompassed the knowledge it would be tied up in the courts for quite a while, this too speaks to cynical politicking - giving the appearance of going to the wall for the wall just to seem to be fighting the good fight.
I see two ways it could play out. First, the timing correctly allows for the court challenges to exhaust themselves and the wall is well under way in November 2020 - I'm OK with this, even if the timing is off. Second, the timing is designed to not be effective before the election and is thus intentional manipulation - it could be indicative of re-election being of greater relative importance to him than this core promise. This affects my level of cynicism
There, are you happy now? I'm betting not, that no level of admitted doubt less than your own will satisfy you - which should maybe be instructive for you about why people won't play that
Nothing I know or suspect now if known in 2016 would make me any less likely to vote for him in the primary or the general. Nothing I know now would make me one iota more likely to vote for any of his likely potential challengers in 2020
Now will you answer why this form of overt witnessing to your favored viewpoint is so important to you. Can you truly not spot the thoughtful Trumpers, or do you just doubt there are any?
you go back to the cost of the wall, simple math will tell you that if you stop paying the way for illegal invaders by giving them free medical care, free food, free or discounted housing.. the wall would pay for itself in no time, and again I will mention...obama declared an emergency 13 times.. so did he abuse power 13 times or is it only because it is Trump? and you debate the effectiveness of walls? do you have 4? do they keep people from strolling through your living room? do people walk in and help themselves to your money? I would like to argue the effectiveness of walls.. walls plus security will equal a significant amount of decreased illegal entries..to argue that fact is ...well
Fox News:Man who shot at California cop previously deported, arrested but cops wouldn't honor ICE detainer, feds say
https://www.foxnews.com/us/man-who-...-but-cops-wouldnt-honor-ice-detainer-feds-say
Illegal alien.
"Bad hombre."
Protected by California sanctuary policies.
Tried to murder a patrol officer at traffic stop.
you go back to the cost of the wall, simple math will tell you that if you stop paying the way for illegal invaders by giving them free medical care, free food, free or discounted housing.. the wall would pay for itself in no time, and again I will mention...obama declared an emergency 13 times.. so did he abuse power 13 times or is it only because it is Trump? and you debate the effectiveness of walls? do you have 4? do they keep people from strolling through your living room? do people walk in and help themselves to your money? I would like to argue the effectiveness of walls.. walls plus security will equal a significant amount of decreased illegal entries..to argue that fact is ...well
The abuse of power has been going on for years, we would not have the illegal alien issue we do had powers not been abused, Trump is just doing what he can to try and bail out a sinking ship, I for one am not interested in passing down a 3rd world country to my children.. slowing down the flow of illegals is a good step towards that goal, and you are right..it will not 100% stop the flow of invaders, but it will stop ones that would otherwise walk right over, drop a baby and live off our tax dollars, all while having no respect for the hand that feedsThe wall won't pay back the cost I'm most interested in. It won't cover the cost of the unintended consequences of abusing emergency powers.
And about Obama's 13 uses of emergency powers. Did you even read my last post about that? NONE of those declared emergencies were to bypass congress. NONE of them were controversial. ALL OF THEM except the H1N1 influenza pandemic were sanctions against foreign governments or foreign groups. Now, before you start thinking I'm a fan of Obama, please understand that I'm not a fan of Obama or his husband Michelle. But reality needs defending. He did not exploit this power to bypass congress. This is new and dangerous ground for uses of emergency powers.
Part of the problem, as I see it, has been the shift over the last 120 years of power and leadership. At the turn of the 20th century it was the congress that controlled, well, about everything. They didn't exactly "control" but they set the tone and direction for America. It was a much more stable system as we were guided by a consensus that was slow to change and wasn't subjected to the personal whims of any one president. The president back then didn't guide all that much. I'm not saying they didn't do anything, but by and large they left congress to set the tone and policy.
Then comes WWI. We faced a global crisis and Woodrow Wilson started to take some authority and social control. He co-opted the Red Cross to censure and control people who disagreed with the war effort. He was like the first minny McCarthy as anyone who was against the war was both persecuted and prosecuted.
Then comes the great depression and WWII. FDR gave his weekly fireside addresses and people shifted looking to congress and looked to him instead. From there it was all downhill. The president jumped into the drivers seat and congress willingly got in the back seat. As time has passed congress has been granting the presidential office more and more power, maybe because it allows them to dodge the hard issues and blame him for all the problems. I don't know?
Now we come to this 1976 law where "emergency" is only a word that has no legal meaning. So my thinking is simply this: if SCOTUS determines that law to be valid then Trump wins, simply because he is operating within the law, period.
In my opinion we have allowed too much power to be given to the president. The president can sign executive agreements with foreign nations that have equal power to a treaty, just so they can be kept secret. This completely bypasses the founding fathers intention of a check on the presidents power by having the senate review international treaties. We allow the president to lob ordnance into foreign nations without a formal declaration of war, because it is easy and avoids a debate on what our true policy should be.
I want to see the power of the president radically curtailed. However, I do NOT want to see it done in a vindictive or malicious way. In other words, I don't want Pelosi trying to gut Trumps power just as I wouldn't want the republicans to gut Hillaries power had she been elected. It should not be done because congress doesn't like the person in the office, but rather because the office itself needs to be put back on a leash.
I do not believe this will happen. Power, once given, is hard to take back. But I wish it would happen.
Regards,
Doug
The abuse of power has been going on for years, we would not have the illegal alien issue we do had powers not been abused, Trump is just doing what he can to try and bail out a sinking ship, I for one am not interested in passing down a 3rd world country to my children.. slowing down the flow of illegals is a good step towards that goal, and you are right..it will not 100% stop the flow of invaders, but it will stop ones that would otherwise walk right over, drop a baby and live off our tax dollars, all while having no respect for the hand that feeds
Everything except get the funding when the Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress for two years.So help me understand things here this dude in CALIFORNIA had previously been deported SIX times, had a long rap sheet ect. Local police didn’t alert ICE due to sanctuary laws. Self deprecation is a mental illness!
BTW
You guys are really getting into the weeds on several issues.
1. We have to stop the flood from Central America
2. President Trump did everything humanly possible including a government shutdown to do this the way it was supposed to be done.
3. The legal battle may take the remainder of President Trumps time in office.
4. If you think this is dangerous now think about if President Tump loses the next election.
Harris and Warren have already spoke in favor of reparations for minority’s that combined with the money that could be wasted on climate change, paid time off, basic income ect. This combined with “Open Borders” will make for some interesting conversation.
So help me understand things here this dude in CALIFORNIA had previously been deported SIX times, had a long rap sheet ect. Local police didn’t alert ICE due to sanctuary laws. Self deprecation is a mental illness!
BTW
You guys are really getting into the weeds on several issues.
1. We have to stop the flood from Central America
2. President Trump did everything humanly possible including a government shutdown to do this the way it was supposed to be done.
3. The legal battle may take the remainder of President Trumps time in office.
4. If you think this is dangerous now think about if President Tump loses the next election.
Harris and Warren have already spoke in favor of reparations for minority’s that combined with the money that could be wasted on climate change, paid time off, basic income ect. This combined with “Open Borders” will make for some interesting conversation.
The abuse of power has been going on for years, we would not have the illegal alien issue we do had powers not been abused, Trump is just doing what he can to try and bail out a sinking ship, I for one am not interested in passing down a 3rd world country to my children.. slowing down the flow of illegals is a good step towards that goal, and you are right..it will not 100% stop the flow of invaders, but it will stop ones that would otherwise walk right over, drop a baby and live off our tax dollars, all while having no respect for the hand that feeds
So let's be the side that breaks it wide open? I mean. Dude, the way it is now, presidents still couldn't do a whole lot without congress. We got through a horrible time of relentless attacks on the 2A. Obama's pen and phone werne't all that effective against us. If this use of emergency powers stand, look out.
And we need to stop this back and forth crap. You guys keep telling me how urgent this problem is. Well, maybe it is, or maybe your fears are being as manipulated as the left's are by their press. It's not **** the rule of law urgent! We're not to the point where we throw that out. Continually trying to convince me that it's as urgent as you think it is, isn't going to make me think we're at the point where it's literally by any means necessary, including breaking congress. If just anything can be declared an emergency it's a lot easier to just say the President has all the power he needs and congress is just a figurehead.
I read on INGO that the problem is mostly visa overstays. I'm sure that this illegal who was deported several times and tried to murder a police officer was just a visa overstay. #wallsdontwork
But your preferred remedy is for him to lose in court, rather than call for the loophole to be closed? It seems like you are also valuing expediency over the rule of law. You just want him stopped a little sooner, like now; but you can't claim to be for the rule of law unless you can accept that it is legal if SCOTUS rules it so and it being against the rule of law will not be established without it going through the process
I hope that like me, you have never liked the whole ideological battle over the soul of SCOTUS, that that court and the circuit courts should only rule on whether something is constitutional or legal according to laws actually on the books rather than it being necessary to have a majority of [insert preferred ideology] justices or it's TEOTWAWKI. Now might be a good time to start worrying again that SCOTUS has all the power it needs, and if ideology must prevail at SCOTUS that it damned well better be our ideology for limited government to have a breath of a chance
Whether the emergency declaration is within the rule of law has yet to be determined, so the assertion that we are abandoning the rule of law has not been established, it is just your opinion. Trump has never failed to obey a court order, he just *****es about it. From my viewpoint your fears are drastically overblown
Quick question: does the "national emergency law" limit how often POTUS can declare something an emergency.
Seems to me, as soon as Congress does its thing to try to stop it, POTUS can just declare another one. Maybe not exactly the same one, but a really really similar one.
Agreed. Except I'd just add that the emergency powers has been used for uncontroversial purposes up until this point. I think presidents did not want to be seen abusing the power. It would distroy their legacy, or perception of them as leaders. You get a president who doesn't give a **** about precedent and how other president's have used emergency powers and you'll have one that just decides to abuse it and take his chances. And his ardent supporters are okay with that because it gets them what they want. And given the conversations here, no one believes it'll be used against them. Now Democrats will have the cover of, well, the Republicans did it.
Probably the best way to solve it so that we dont' have to worry about the weaponization of "emergency" in the culture war would be for congress to change the law to define more clearly what an emergency is and limit the scope further for how a president can use it.